# Healthcare Myths in America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179 "2018-11-27T21:28:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/21 "2018-12-04T23:08:49Z")
> [@](#): > > People know about their own healthcare situation… Not really, no. Most people are healthy, and so are basically not using their healthcare. How can you tell how good it is until you’re using it? ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/22 "2018-12-04T23:17:56Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > I’d say that consensus would be more important if it was about an issue that was actually possible to keep or sustain. I am sure 3 out of 4 Americans would like being able to teleport and being immortal too. You’re just tap-dancing around real polling on a real issue. People don’t have to believe in crazy stuff to know if their own healthcare is good or not. And the numbers I quoted on the very strong consensus on the real issue of our own healthcare is fact. And single-payer is not necessary for sustainability of a healthcare system. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/23 "2018-12-04T23:24:01Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You missed a few things, IMHO. First off, while YOU might have ‘crappy healthcare’, the majority of people in the country have healthcare that is just good enough so that they aren’t complaining that much. Part of that is because most people are mostly healthy for most of their lives. People who are truly sick usually end up on a public health care system like medicare or medicaid. So yes people may be happy with their private insurance, but that is because they are healthy enough to work and don’t really use it. So yes people may be happy with their insurance when all that happens is they get a prescription filled here and there. But if they get so sick that they can’t work, and they have endless doctor visits then check again and see how happy they are. Also people like medicare better than private insurance. > **[Americans With Government Health Plans Most Satisfied](https://news.gallup.com/poll/186527/americans-government-health-plans-satisfied.aspx)** > > Americans with government-sponsored insurance are the most likely to be satisfied with the way the healthcare system works for them, while those without insurance are least likely to be satisfied. > [@XT](#): > > In addition, while a lot of Americans pine for what our Canadian or European brethren and sistren have, this is what they know…we’ve had this system in place for generations…it’s been here as long as anyone currently alive remembers. That is the same in other countries. They had private health insurance for a while. Lots of western nations didn’t have true UHC systems until the 1970s and 1980s. It isn’t like they all went from no health insurance to a public UHC system. > [@XT](#): > > And, as noted, it’s worked just good enough for the majority that people are leery of switching to something we’ve never had here. Single payer healthcare = medicare for all. We’ve had medicare for 53 years. It is one of the most popular things the US government does, and polls show a majority of hte public want medicare for all (or at least they say they do). > **[70% of Americans now support Medicare-for-all—here's how single-payer could...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-americans-now-support-medicare-for-all-and-free-college-tuition.html)** > > "Medicare is a very popular program, so the idea of expanding it to everyone is popular as well," says Larry Levitt, senior vice president for health reform at the Kaiser Family Foundation Switching to single payer just means switching to a popular medical program that covers 1/6 of Americans and that virtually everyone will eventually be on anyway if they live to age 65. > [@XT](#): > > I think, generally, Americans are unimpressed by statements that other countries have done X…I know I am…so we should just be able to do it as well. Especially in this case with an entrenched system that’s been with us for generations. Sure, if we could just scrap the whole thing magically and put in place a new shinny system immediately that is up and running right now it would be nice. But the reality is that you can’t just do that. Most countries with single payer systems didn’t go from a system like ours (which is a hodge-podge kludge that’s evolved over decades) to what they have now, and the few who did it (Canada I think) had abilities to enact and a voter base vastly different than our own. This is true sadly. The closest comparision is Switzerland, which had a system like ours up until the 1990s. However in the US, we currently have about 130 million people on medicare and medicaid. We also have tens of millions more on subsidized private plans and other public health plans. As a stepping stone to single payer, we could expand medicare and medicaid (put both on the exchanges, lower the medicare age to 50, etc). We could also push for single payer on the state level. That’ll increase the number of Americans on public plans to 200+ million and ease the transition into nationwide single payer. Point being, the public sector already covers about half of Americans and pays about 60% of the health care bills (because people who are truly sick tend to end up on the public sector, their overall costs are a little higher despite the public sector being cheaper for healthcare). > [@XT](#): > > I DO think we should go to a single payer system of some kind, and I do think it would be better than the cluster fuck we have today. I just don’t kid myself that it would be easier, or that there would be some vast savings that would happen, especially initially or during the (very long IMHO) transition. One issue is that we have a huge gap between the majority who get fairly decent healthcare and those who essentially get none. That gap is going to cost us, no matter how you slice it, and it will also mean that health care will have to be spread out (or expanded) to cover literally millions that it’s not covering today. A well run single payer plan will cut costs via a variety of methods, and it will reduce the cost curve going forward so medical costs do not grow as much. But realistically we won’t get it anytime soon sadly. Even though people say they like it, on ballot initiatives it still doesn’t pass. And if a legislature passes it like Vermont, they back off. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/24 "2018-12-04T23:28:16Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You missed a few things, IMHO. First off, while YOU might have ‘crappy healthcare’, the majority of people in the country have healthcare that is just good enough so that they aren’t complaining that much. I dunno. I hear complaints about our healthcare system all the time. Not just about the bureaucratic and financial nightmares that people find themselves in, but the long waiting times and general incompetency from overworked practitioners. At any rate, most people do not find themselves using their healthcare coverage more than once or twice a year, so they don’t see the weaknesses in the system. Nor do they have a reference to compare things to. Also, in a few years all the Boomers will be elderly and in various stages of physical deterioration. Only a few will still be in the workforce (and those who are left won’t be there because they love their jobs necessarily). The typical 50-year-old may not know what’s it is like to have to choose between medication or food, but this is a common woe for a frail pensioner living on SS. A lot of people who think things are hunky-dory don’t know what’s waiting for them ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/25 "2018-12-04T23:32:53Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > And the numbers I quoted on the very strong consensus on the real issue of our own healthcare is fact. …the numbers you cited (well you didn’t really cite them as much as “pluck them out of thin air”) indicate that (Are you including children and infants?) at least 80 million people do \*not \*like their own healthcare. Consensus is of course important. But you ignore the opinion of millions of people at your own peril. The people that don’t like their healthcare are the ones who can’t afford it, who don’t have insurance, who have to crowdfund to pay their medical bills, who are under-insured, who are dying because they are receiving inferior care. Those people matter, no matter what the “consensus” is on the issue. There is no reason to “tread lightly.” ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/26 "2018-12-04T23:39:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It may be “good enough” that they aren’t complaining but it is still crappy health care. > > Most people have no clue how lacking their “good enough” healthcare is until they are hit with a catastrophic illness or injury. THEN they find out, but at that point it’s too late. > > In most countries “medical bankruptcy” is a meaningless phrase. In the US it is the leading cause of bankruptcy,_more than half_ of them. This. Vast numbers of [del]morons[/del] Americans claim they don’t want universal coverage because they’re healthy _now._ Their attitude is, “Why should I pay for someone else’s medicine?” Apparently they are completely oblivious to the idea that they are just one car crash away from bankruptcy. Nor can they comprehend how preventive medicine can drive down everyone’s costs. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/27 "2018-12-04T23:49:00Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the numbers you cited (well you didn’t really cite them as much as “pluck them out of thin air”) No, there are other threads where that specific stat was cited, including threads where you participated. To say I plucked them out of thin air is a bald-faced lie on your part. > **[U.S. Healthcare Quality Ratings Among Lowest Since '12](https://news.gallup.com/poll/222992/personal-national-healthcare-quality-high-marks.aspx?g_source=link_newsv9&g_campaign=item_226607&g_medium=copy)** > > Americans continue to rate their personal healthcare situations better than those of the U.S. overall on three key aspects -- quality, coverage and cost. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/28 "2018-12-05T00:02:40Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > No, there are other threads where that specific stat was cited, including threads where you participated. To say I plucked them out of thin air is a bald-faced lie on your part. > > [U.S. Healthcare Quality Ratings Among Lowest Since '12](https://news.gallup.com/poll/222992/personal-national-healthcare-quality-high-marks.aspx?g_source=link_newsv9&g_campaign=item_226607&g_medium=copy) …you’ve cited it _now_. But you didn’t cite it in this particular thread. I think “plucked from thin air” was a fair characterization. You can’t expect me to remember every post from every thread I’ve ever participated? And its still an irrelevant figure for all the reasons you have chosen to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/29 "2018-12-05T00:20:51Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I think “plucked from thin air” was a fair characterization. No it isn’t. It’s you being wrong, or lying, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/30 "2018-12-05T00:35:02Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > No, there are other threads where that specific stat was cited, including threads where you participated. To say I plucked them out of thin air is a bald-faced lie on your part. > > [U.S. Healthcare Quality Ratings Among Lowest Since '12](https://news.gallup.com/poll/222992/personal-national-healthcare-quality-high-marks.aspx?g_source=link_newsv9&g_campaign=item_226607&g_medium=copy) > [@survinga](#): > > No it isn’t. It’s you being wrong, or lying, or both. Do not accuse other posters of lying in this forum. Please familiarize yourself with the [rules of the forum](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818217) (rule #5) posted in the sticky at the top of the forum. Your one and only pass. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/31 "2018-12-05T00:45:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not really, no. Most people are healthy, and so are basically not using their healthcare. How can you tell how good it is until you’re using it? Pre ACA, there was some low cost “insurance” that was sold mostly to low income hourly employees through major employers. For around $100 a month you got doctor visits with a small copay,free eye exams and glasses and all sorts of routine healthcare. And these were among the plans that were eliminated with the ACA. And most of the people that had those plans loved loved loved them. But the catch is that these plans had a ridiculously low yearly maximum benefit of around $2000. I believe that they may have originally been designed as a bridge plan to be used in conjunction with a real insurance plan to cover the deductible. But people that had never really gotten sick and hadn’t read the fine print honestly thought they had awesome insurance that had been taken away from them. Even though these plans weren’t even technically allowed to be called insurance. Because they didn’t provide any. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/32 "2018-12-05T00:49:23Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Part of that is because most people are mostly healthy for most of their lives. People who are truly sick usually end up on a public health care system like medicare or medicaid. So yes people may be happy with their private insurance, but that is because they are healthy enough to work and don’t really use it. > > So yes people may be happy with their insurance when all that happens is they get a prescription filled here and there. But if they get so sick that they can’t work, and they have endless doctor visits then check again and see how happy they are. I’m certainly happy with my insurance. And I have someone in my family with some very serious, chronic conditions, and who does not work. So, we use our private health insurance quite a bit, and it’s done very well for us. There are some that meet the situation that you mention above. But many who don’t. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/33 "2018-12-05T00:57:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not really, no. Most people are healthy, and so are basically not using their healthcare. How can you tell how good it is until you’re using it? Well, let’s put it this way. People know much more about their own healthcare than they do about the overall healthcare system. So, if we are discussing single-payer, which in America would amount to a very big change in health insurance & healthcare itself, it’s relevant to be informed about people’s view of their own healthcare. If we’re going to talk about all the things that are wrong with healthcare in America, it’s relevant to be informed about people’s view of their own healthcare. So, when I say that 3 out of 4 Americans think their own healthcare is good (or even excellent), that’s very important for policymakers to consider. You rarely find an issue where 75% of the public agrees. That is an extremely strong consensus. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/34 "2018-12-05T02:48:29Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > I’m certainly happy with my insurance. And I have someone in my family with some very serious, chronic conditions, and who does not work. So, we use our private health insurance quite a bit, and it’s done very well for us. > > There are some that meet the situation that you mention above. But many who don’t. I’m glad you’re happy with your insurance. But if it were you who couldn’t work and had the serious health problems, you may not have a good job that offers you good insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/35 "2018-12-05T03:34:22Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > I am far from a ten percenter. In fact, my income took a huge drop, like cut in half, 4 years ago. Our combined incomes probably put us in the bottom 25-30 percent. I have insurance, but it’s a fairly high deductible. We had to scrimp to take care of the deductibles. And there are plenty of people who make less than I do but still have the same insurance. And you are happy with this? We’re not talking quality of care here - someone who goes bankrupt to pay for medical care is likely getting good care. But you being forced to scrimp and save to pay for treatment for something not your fault doesn’t sound like a good system to me. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/36 "2018-12-05T03:47:34Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > No, there are other threads where that specific stat was cited, including threads where you participated. To say I plucked them out of thin air is a bald-faced lie on your part. > > [U.S. Healthcare Quality Ratings Among Lowest Since '12](https://news.gallup.com/poll/222992/personal-national-healthcare-quality-high-marks.aspx?g_source=link_newsv9&g_campaign=item_226607&g_medium=copy) From your link: > [@](#): > > Gallup measures Americans’ views of healthcare costs by asking if they are satisfied or dissatisfied with their own costs and with healthcare costs nationally. One in five (20%) are satisfied with the total cost of healthcare in the U.S. this year, consistent with most of the yearly readings since 2002. At the same time, three times as many, 61%, are satisfied with the total cost of their own healthcare. This represents a five-point uptick from last year but is largely consistent with the general trend since 2002. This reminds me of a few years back when Congress got a worse approval rating than cancer, but most people liked their particular Congressperson. Quality of healthcare is irrelevant to this discussion. Someone saved from a heart attack would probably be happy with the quality of his healthcare - even if he goes bankrupt paying the bill. Not to mention that our pitiful standings in terms of results shows we shouldn’t be all that satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/37 "2018-12-05T04:39:29Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I think, generally, Americans are unimpressed by statements that other countries have done X…I know I am…so we should just be able to do it as well. I agree with you that most Americans think like that, but it’s irrational. Even if one were to think the US is the world’s bestest #1 country\*, that doesn’t mean it’s perfect, and that new ideas cannot be brought in from elsewhere. It’s a sad fact that culturally, that’s exactly what it means: “We’re #1, therefore we don’t need to listen”. Or of course the more modern version which is “If I can find some way the US is different to country X, that shows it can’t work here”. - For the record, I don’t think this. Picking an objectively best country would be like picking an objectively best food, and if you were to ask my favorite country, it would not be a contender. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/38 "2018-12-05T05:40:07Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > Their attitude is, “Why should I pay for someone else’s medicine?” To which the short answer is “Because everyone else will pay for yours”. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/39 "2018-12-05T05:58:09Z")
also…why are you comfortable paying for someone else’s police and fire service? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179/40 "2018-12-05T06:06:16Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I agree with you that most Americans think like that, but it’s irrational. No it’s not. Look, the USA isnt Denmark, a tiny Euro nation. What works for many other nations doesn’t work on the grand scale of the USA. That doesnt mean we can’t watch and learns but honestly saying “well, 12 other nations that I have cherrypicked out of a list of 200 do it like t_hat_, so \*that \*must be the very best way.” Is just as bad. I am in favor of single payer, but telling me Denmark has it ain’t gonna win me over. What works for a nation of 5 Million, isn’t necessarily a good plan for 300 million. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-myths-in-america/825179.md?page=3)