# Healthcare Reform Down In Flames? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 13, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-reform-down-in-flames/564004 "2010-12-13T17:45:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-reform-down-in-flames/564004/361 "2010-12-21T01:02:32Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > What fascinates me is that you (and many others) spend your efforts worrying about “can” the government instead of “should” the government. > > As I said with the draft, and declarations of war: the federal government _can_ which means what we need to ask more frequently is _should_ But if the answer to “can?” is “No,” then surely that forecloses the “Should?” question. Unless you believe that if they should, then they automatically can. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-reform-down-in-flames/564004/362 "2010-12-21T01:16:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But if the answer to “can?” is “No,” then surely that forecloses the “Should?” question. > > Unless you believe that if they should, then they automatically can. Why would I believe that? Do you believe that if they can then they automatically should? If the answer is that they should, the can is secondary, now it’s just procedural. As a side example consider the mess in Iowa. The state supreme court ruled against “the government” so “the government” had them removed. All perfectly within their powers, but nobody bothers to ask if they should. We’re back to the same stupid circular reference: The constitution limits the federal government -\> the constitution is interpreted by the supreme court -\> the federal government decides the make up of the supreme court -\> the federal government decides the constitution -\> the constitution limits the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-reform-down-in-flames/564004/363 "2010-12-21T01:17:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For me, it’s not shocking that the government can force you to do stuff. But it’s shocking that the Commerce Clause is thought to contain a broad enough reach to let the federal government regulate ANYTHING. Cite that the government forces you to buy health care? Last I checked you’re free to just pay the tax. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-reform-down-in-flames/564004/364 "2010-12-21T01:21:53Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Cite that the government forces you to buy health care? Last I checked you’re free to just pay the tax. Sure, just like you’re free to commit murder, so long as you’re willing to go jail. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-reform-down-in-flames/564004/365 "2010-12-21T01:59:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Sure, just like you’re free to commit murder, so long as you’re willing to go jail. Now see that’s different. If you write a letter to the cops telling them you’re gonna murder someone they’ll do their best to stop you. They will actively prevent you from commiting murder if they can. If you write a letter to the federal government that your not going to get health care coverage they’ll just let you not have it, so long as you don’t mind the IRS auctioning off your property if you disobey the tax laws. However, I have raised points exactly like yours concerning certain realities of the poor, and of transportation in rural areas and was told whatever drastic consequence, including starvation, and death was okay. You could always pull money out of your bleeding turnip and move to the city. You could always walk 35 miles in the winter if transportation is unaffordable. You deserve to suffer if you can’t afford medical care. Who cares if you’re bleeding out your ears and in extreme pain. You should have thought about that before you bought food for your kids with your unemployment check instead of extending COBRA coverage. So I’m taking this opportunity to throw that back in those worthless piece of shit’s faces. I am unsympathetic to the “oh noes I’ll have to pay money plea”. By definition it only targets those who can afford insurance. However I’ll gladly let this point drop if someone of the more hardcore right wing members here agree any drastic consequence counts as coercion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-reform-down-in-flames/564004.md?page=18)