# Healthcare - The More I Learn the More Disgusted I Become **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687 "2009-09-26T22:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/181 "2009-09-29T21:27:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course they are. Anyone who has a different view or who has different concerns than people like you is automatically despicable. There’s your way, and there’s the backward/stupid/greedy/evil way. This attitude is virtually a defining characteristic of people like you. As opposed to [insert group here] who are universally tolerant of their opposition, and assume them to be principled and honest and intelligent but differing in their views. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/182 "2009-09-29T21:37:25Z")
bolding mine: > [@Isamu](#): > > I’m not sure what the fuss is about anymore. It’s long past the time where any significant reforms could have been made to the US system, isn’t it? > > There’s no momentum for universal health care, or for government administration as opposed to insurer administration, so I think the whole debtate is purely theoretical now. \*\*The only thing I can see possibly coming is a public funded insurance option for lower income households, nothing more. \*\* > Am I wrong? Would that really be so bad? I got laid off over a year ago. I’m working now (thank Og) but not for any benefits at all. How about an insurance option for me? If I go into the kind of work I’d like to do, I’d be working for myself. How about an insurance option for me in the future? Why is it that being unemployed or being self-employed has to mean that I have no affordable access to health care of any kind? ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/183 "2009-09-29T21:41:30Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > bolding mine: > > Would that really be so bad? It’s not that it’s bad, it’s that it’s not good enough. Medical costs keep rising, and it’s not just lower income people who cannot afford the expense. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/184 "2009-09-29T21:54:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > As opposed to [insert group here] who are universally tolerant of their opposition, and assume them to be principled and honest and intelligent but differing in their views. I think it can be honestly said that [insert group 1 here] is more cognizant of the fact that [insert group 2 here] merely have different philosophies and attitudes and ways of looking at things than they do. Group 2 however, seems utterly incapable of accepting that there can be legitimate reasons for disagreeing with it, and that any and all such disagreement must therefore be the result of stupidity, greed, selfishness, evil, etc. > [@elucidator](#): > > Well, you see, Starv, once you know right from wrong, you are pretty much obligated to do something about it… Thanks, **luce** , but I was doing a fine job of making my point anyway. I do appreciate the help though. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/185 "2009-09-29T21:57:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I think it can be honestly said that [insert group 1 here] is more cognizant of the fact that [insert group 2 here] merely have different philosophies and attitudes and ways of looking at things than they do. Group 2 however, seems utterly incapable of accepting that there can be legitimate reasons for disagreeing with it, and that any and all such disagreement must therefore be the result of stupidity, greed, selfishness, evil, etc. And I’m sure everyone here, regardless of political persuasion, would consider themselves to be in group 1. Really, to consider it a “defining characteristic” of any group, when obviously most fall to this type of thinking, is pretty silly. There may be a valid case that specific groups are more guilty of this than others - but a defining trait, as if it were uniquely limited to one group? No way. ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/186 "2009-09-29T22:21:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course they are. Anyone who has a different view or who has different concerns than people like you is automatically despicable. There’s your way, and there’s the backward/stupid/greedy/evil way. This attitude is virtually a defining characteristic of people like you. I’ll concede that that my reaction may have been overstated on my part. However, please understand that I see this issue as causing financial ruin and death to tens of thousands of American citizens every year. To my way of looking at it, the senators who voted against that amendment may as well have affirmed their support of said financial ruin and death. Obviously, opinions and interpretations differ. Some see this as a moral crisis (such as myself and others). Some (like yourself) see things more dispassionately. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/187 "2009-09-29T23:16:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I think it can be honestly said that [insert group 1 here] is more cognizant of the fact that [insert group 2 here] merely have different philosophies and attitudes and ways of looking at things than they do. Group 2 however, seems utterly incapable of accepting that there can be legitimate reasons for disagreeing with it, and that any and all such disagreement must therefore be the result of stupidity, greed, selfishness, evil, etc. That is because opposition to a even the compromise of a public option is indeed the result of stupidity, greed, selfishness, evil, etc. Here is a message to Max Baucus: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7Hpn283wiQ8/hqdefault.jpg "Hold Max Baucus Accountable") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hpn283wiQ8) [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/28/baucus-targeted-by-liberal-groups-in-new-ad/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/28/baucus-targeted-by-liberal-groups-in-new-ad/) > [@](#): > > My name is Bing Perrine and I live here in Billings, Montana, with my beautiful wife and baby boy. Last June, I collapsed because of congenital heart problems. I need open-heart surgery, but I have no insurance and no company will insure me. > > My friends and family have been a blessing. With hearts as big as a Montana sky, they have helped with bake sales and benefits. But my wife and I still owe over $100,000 in medical bills. > > None of this debt would have piled up if I had the option of buying into a public health insurance plan. > > Private insurance companies need competition. They profit by denying care to people like me. > > Senator Baucus, when you take millions of dollars from health and insurance interests that oppose reform — and oppose giving families like mine the choice of a public option — I have to ask: whose side are you on? ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/188 "2009-09-30T00:55:05Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > Don’t the health insurance companies realize that they’re going to run out of people to insure? Where’s the profit in that? ‘But I can’t afford to take the long view, my competitors won’t let me.’ Without some level of goverment oversight, business will always favor short term profit to stay ahead of it’s competitiors. There are a lot of things I’m prepared to let rise and fall solely on there business viability, but health care isn’t one of them. The _cost_, to me, of poor health care in general, is much higher than the _price_. \*\* Starving Artist\*\*, did you want to take a crack at answering my question, why do public and private colleges seem to be working, but public and private health care insurance wouldn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/189 "2009-09-30T02:25:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Thanks, **luce** , but I was doing a fine job of making my point anyway. I do appreciate the help though. No, in all honesty you weren’t doing a fine job of making your point. No one knows what your point is. Please make your point. Make it in one short sentence. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/190 "2009-09-30T02:30:28Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > No, in all honesty you weren’t doing a fine job of making your point. No one knows what your point is. **Please make your point. Make it in one short sentence.** > > **Emphasis** mine - **kd99** You ain’t from 'round here, are ya? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/191 "2009-09-30T02:49:51Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > **Starving Artist** , did you want to take a crack at answering my question, why do public and private colleges seem to be working, but public and private health care insurance wouldn’t? It seems lately that my passion for lengthy argument around here has started to wax and wane somewhat (or at least when compared to my previous posting habits :D) and right now I’m in a waning phase so I hope you’ll pardon my not going into much detail, but to me the phrase “apples and oranges” doesn’t begin to describe the difference. Perhaps I’ll be feeling more like fleshing this out later tonight or tomorrow (and come to think of it, this might be part of the problem – I’ve fleshed out my objections to government health care many times around here before and now even _I_ am beginning to grow tired of posting them ;)) but for now I think I’ll just coast around the board a bit and see what’s going on elsewhere. And thanks for your post, **hobscrk777**. I would suggest, however, that the difference between our views lies not so much in my being dispassionate about the issues as it is that I am passionate about different aspects of it than you are. And **kaylasdad99** and **Polycarp** , thanks for the advice on the removal of quotation marks before posting “Fixed that for ya” gags. I’ve asked **Gfactor** about it in another thread and hopefully will get a ruling soon. And on preview: > [@Isamu](#): > > No, in all honesty you weren’t doing a fine job of making your point. No one knows what your point is. Please make your point. Make it in one short sentence. Okey-doke. Here ya go: _“Conservatives think liberals have bad ideas; liberals think conservatives are bad people.”_ This is why the majority of vitriol, condescension, name-calling, and assessment of ignoble motives over the last several decades has emanated primarily from the left, and it is what has brought us to the point where we are now where each side hates, loathes and despises the other rather than working cooperatively with each other in order to solve mutual problems. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/192 "2009-09-30T03:06:58Z")
That damn commie Limbaugh! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/193 "2009-09-30T03:10:33Z")
I know what you’re saying, but consider that Limbaugh was in the vanguard of what many on the right are now doing, which is attempting to fight fire with fire. Prior to Limbaugh’s rise to prominence in the early nineties, and his success in having bred other right-wing commentators, the right really had no voice on the public stage. Without talk radio and cable television, we still wouldn’t. Also consider the way conservatives on this board talk to and about liberals vs. the way the board’s liberals talk to and about conservatives. My point could not be more starkly made. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/194 "2009-09-30T03:13:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > _“Conservatives think liberals have bad ideas; liberals think conservatives are bad people.”_ > > This is why the majority of vitriol, condescension, name-calling, and assessment of ignoble motives over the last several decades has emanated primarily from the left, and it is what has brought us to the point where we are now where each side hates, loathes and despises the other rather than working cooperatively with each other in order to solve mutual problems. OK. Thanks for putting it out there. I don’t think you are entirely wrong, but I don’t think you are a “bad person” either. You have to agree though, that this position is not a healthcare issue, but a partisanship issue, right? If we could just dissagree on one issue at a time, I’m sure we’d make some headway. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/195 "2009-09-30T03:33:42Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > OK. Thanks for putting it out there. I don’t think you are entirely wrong, but I don’t think you are a “bad person” either. Thank you. 🙂 > [@Isamu](#): > > You have to agree though, that this position is not a healthcare issue, but a partisanship issue, right? I would agree that it is largely a partisan issue. Liberals by and large favor government solutions and conservatives do not. Still, to be fair I think that genuine health concerns do drive many on the left, and then being liberal, they naturally gravitate to the government solution. > [@Isamu](#): > > If we could just dissagree on one issue at a time, I’m sure we’d make some headway. 😛 But there are so many issues and so little time. (I keed, I keed… :D) It would be nice if we could get back to being a country where civility was a hallmark in achieving social change. It’s fine to be passionate and determined when fighting for a just cause I would point to the civil rights demonstrators of the fifties and sixties as examples of social change achieved through passion and determination but without name-calling and hatred being the focal point of their efforts. (And of anyone in this country’s history who would have been justified in using those tactics, it would have been them. But they knew that such an approach would only alienate people who could otherwise be persuaded to support them. They were wise and their approach was effective. Much more so than the approach being used by the left today with regard to government health care, which appears to be a philosophy of trying to insult people into supporting it.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/196 "2009-09-30T03:41:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …My point could not be more starkly made. “Stark” is the word that leaps to mind, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/197 "2009-09-30T03:46:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Thanks, **luce** , but I was doing a fine job of making my point anyway. That was you making a point? I thought someone left a spoon in the garbage disposal. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/198 "2009-09-30T03:47:46Z")
:D:D:D (I hate when you do that.) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/199 "2009-09-30T03:55:57Z")
**kaylasdad99** and **Polycarp** , I just heard from **Gfactor**. You are correct in that quotes without quote tags can be altered by striking through certain portions or words and replacing them with others. The quote tags themselves seem to be the problem. Thanks to you both and to **Gfactor** for clearing it up and showing me where I was in error. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687/200 "2009-09-30T03:56:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > “Conservatives think liberals have bad ideas; liberals think conservatives are bad people.” So, when Newt Gingrich sent out a memo urging Republican candidates to use words like “decay” “sick” “pathetic” “lie” “betray” and “traitors” to describe their Democratic opponents; when Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell blamed the September 11 attacks on the ACLU, feminists, gays, and other liberal groups; when Ann Coulter published a book titled _Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism_; when Sarah Palin talked about certain (reliably Republican-voting) areas of the country as being the “pro-America areas” of the country; and when various right-wing tea-baggers compare Obama to Hitler; they’re just disagreeing with the _ideas_ of the liberals? Bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-the-more-i-learn-the-more-disgusted-i-become/511687.md?page=11)