# "Healthy, Happy, and Hot" - Planned Parenthood Opposes Mandatory HIV Disclosure Before Sex **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958 "2010-04-13T15:51:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/101 "2010-04-14T23:40:22Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > It’s against the law because we say it is, and because it’s inherently dangerous. Having sex with someone who is HIV+ is not. Riddle me this… How do most **average** people GET HIV? Mosquitos? No…that doesn’t sound quite right… Wait…let me think about this a minute… Oh yeah, now I remember…having SEX with people who FUCKING HAVE HIV. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/102 "2010-04-14T23:42:57Z")
The problem is bad but the solution is worse No one should have to be forced to reveal their medical status in private. We could easily extend that to criminal history, political views, or religion. It’s up to everyone to determine whether or not the risk of sex is worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/103 "2010-04-15T00:08:43Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > No one should have to be forced to reveal their medical status in private. Once your medical status has a significant chance of killing other people, I’d say it’s no longer a private concern. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/104 "2010-04-15T00:11:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > When was the last time this was actually enforced? I don’t know. TB is not exactly common these days. But why is that relevant? You asked about analgous state quarantine laws for things like TB. I gave you one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/105 "2010-04-15T00:11:28Z")
The rate of transmission during unprotected sex is 0.3% per encounter. Considering that people are likely to disclose the fact that they are HIV positive regardless of the law, and the fact that most people use condoms anyway, the risk of contracting HIV from somebody who didn’t tell you they had it is infinitesimal. > [@](#): > > I don’t know. TB is not exactly common these days. But why is that relevant? You asked about analgous state quarantine laws for things like TB. I gave you one. Right, but the reason I asked about them is because I see don’t see failure to disclose HIV status as any different from failure to disclose any other medical information. I just mentioned other communicable diseases because the link is more obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/106 "2010-04-15T00:12:11Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Perhaps. I don’t necessarily agree with PPI. Regardless, I am not sure your analysis gives a complete picture of how they feel about the issue. If you read the link on the first page you quoted from, some arguments are listed why they believe criminalization is [bad](http://www.gnpplus.net/criminalisation/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=382&Itemid=53) (another cite [here](http://www.aidslaw.ca/publications/interfaces/downloadFile.php?ref=1275)). I think your overview is unfair for a few reasons. First, this is the INTERNATIONAL Planned Parenthood. It’s also a pamphlet; hardly the place to present all the intricacies of the situation. If you read some of the linked sites, they talk about problems in Western Africa where women who disclosed to their partners have legitimate fears of physical reprisal (including murder). You better believe disclosure under those circumstances is a violation of one’s rights. The context is very important. Either way, if you really want to know how they feel, why don’t you contact them to get their point of view rather than making an assumption. Forget quoting their publish pamphlet, eh? If anyone wants to truly argue that this is their position, he needs to have heard it personally, from their lips, others it’s just not so! Fallacy. Two related fallacies, actually: argument ad ignoratium and burden of proof. I’ve presented a published document from the organization in question. That’s more than sufficient for me to have carried my burden of proof. If you wish to claim that this is not their position, it’s for you to provide the evidence of that claim. And you go, of course, to suggest that because such additional evidence isn’t adduced here, it must mean that their position isn’t really what was quoted. Classic argument ad ignoratium. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/107 "2010-04-15T00:15:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The rate of transmission during unprotected sex is 0.3% per encounter. Considering that people are likely to disclose the fact that they are HIV positive regardless of the law, and the fact that most people use condoms anyway, the risk of contracting HIV from somebody who didn’t tell you they had it is infinitesimal. And yet HIV infections are rising every year. Where are those people coming from? It’s happening. wishing it away, or theorizing it away, doesn’tchange that. It must be annoying that the virus doesn’t ackowledge the ideological truths of your position, but it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > Right, but the reason I asked about them is because I see don’t see failure to disclose HIV status as any different from failure to disclose any other medical information. I just mentioned other communicable diseases because the link is more obvious. Yes, and the answer is: with other communicable diseases, the law permits the government to quarantine someone if necesary to prevent spread. The fact that it isn’t invoked often suggests that most people cooperate with voluntary measures to isolate themelves, and don’t become a risk that must be addressed by the sterner measures. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/108 "2010-04-15T00:22:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The rate of transmission during unprotected sex is 0.3% per encounter. . And what is the per drive chance of someone driving drunk killing someone? Society seems damn ready to hang “drunk” drivers from the nearest yard arm. I await the "keep HIV status secret " apologists numbers. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/109 "2010-04-15T00:25:34Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I await the "keep HIV status secret " apologists numbers. Would you live in the same house with an HIV+ person? Would you eat a meal prepared by an HIV+ person? Would you bathe in the same bathtub as an HIV+ person? Would you share a bathroom with an HIV+ person? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/110 "2010-04-15T00:33:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And yet HIV infections are rising every year. > > Where are those people coming from? > > It’s happening. wishing it away, or theorizing it away, doesn’tchange that. It must be annoying that the virus doesn’t ackowledge the ideological truths of your position, but it doesn’t. What ideological truth? I happen to think Planned Parenthood is making a mistake here; they’re not supposed to be an advocacy group or PAC. Those people are having unprotected sex with HIV+ people, or are the children of HIV+ mothers (the transmission rate from mother to fetus is something like 90%). Now, I’m sure some of those cases are due to failure to disclose on the part of the carrier, but frankly anyone who has unprotected sex with an unknown (or poorly known) partner in 2010 is probably not the sort of person who asks anyway. > [@](#): > > Yes, and the answer is: with other communicable diseases, the law permits the government to quarantine someone if necesary to prevent spread. The fact that it isn’t invoked often suggests that most people cooperate with voluntary measures to isolate themelves, and don’t become a risk that must be addressed by the sterner measures. So you think people with infectious non-STDs are able to avoid _all_ contact with other people, but people with HIV are unable to avoid sexual contact at a greater rate? :dubious: Influenza kills 40,000 people a year. That suggests to me that people are not cooperating with voluntary measures to isolate themselves, and should be quarantined in the name of public safety. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/111 "2010-04-15T00:35:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Would you live in the same house with an HIV+ person? > > Would you eat a meal prepared by an HIV+ person? > > Would you bathe in the same bathtub as an HIV+ person? > > Would you share a bathroom with an HIV+ person? Yes, yes, yes and yes. I’ve KNOWN GOOD PEOPLE who HAD HIV AND DIED FROM it you wanker…and, ironically they probably GOT the disease because of some misguided “don’t ask, don’t tell” bullshit that was rampant early on in the HIV history. Butt, its MY right to know these these things once intimacey reaches a certain level… And, most importantly IMFO, it certainly is my right to know these this before the fucking gets a going… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/112 "2010-04-15T00:40:06Z")
By way of comparison, about 15,000 people die of HIV/AIDS each year, and the number has been dropping since 1995. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/113 "2010-04-15T00:48:28Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Yes, yes, yes and yes. I’ve KNOWN GOOD PEOPLE who HAD HIV AND DIED FROM it you wanker…and, ironically they probably GOT the disease because of some misguided “don’t ask, don’t tell” bullshit that was rampant early on in the HIV history. > > Butt, its MY right to know these these things once intimacey reaches a certain level… > > And, most importantly IMFO, it certainly is my right to know these this before the fucking gets a going… Then I apologize for the questioning. But I’d note that throughout this thread I’ve been saying that I think an HIV+ person has a moral obligation to disclose before sex. I’m just unsure about making it a legal obligation. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/114 "2010-04-15T00:49:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Influenza kills 40,000 people a year. That suggests to me that people are not cooperating with voluntary measures to isolate themselves, and should be quarantined in the name of public safety. Need I point out that influenza requires more drastic means of quarantine than an STD? Or that compared to size of the infected population, the risk of death is significantly lower? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/115 "2010-04-15T00:49:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > By way of comparison, about 15,000 people die of HIV/AIDS each year, and the number has been dropping since 1995. Which is pretty much the same number (in my guesstimate) as the innocent bystanders number that die from drunk driving… wait, is that a world wide number or a USA number or what? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/116 "2010-04-15T00:58:44Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Then I apologize for the questioning. But I’d note that throughout this thread I’ve been saying that I think an HIV+ person has a moral obligation to disclose before sex. I’m just unsure about making it a legal obligation. Period. I’ll take that apology…thank you for that. But, if you think it is the moral right thing to do, why isnt it the legal thing to do? Note that this the end of the evening as far as my brain is concerned… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/117 "2010-04-15T01:04:51Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Need I point out that influenza requires more drastic means of quarantine than an STD? Or that compared to size of the infected population, the risk of death is significantly lower? I’m not the one arguing that quarantining carriers of airborne diseases is a practicable measure. Bricker is. The fact that the risk of death is significantly lower is irrelevant. 40,000 dead people is still 40,000 dead people. > [@billfish678](#): > > Which is pretty much the same number (in my guesstimate) as the innocent bystanders number that die from drunk driving… > > wait, is that a world wide number or a USA number or what? That’s a USA number (as is the influenza figure). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/118 "2010-04-15T01:58:43Z")
I’d love it if government required people who had the flu to stay home and not go to work. It’s one of my biggest pet peeves. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/119 "2010-04-15T02:21:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m not the one arguing that quarantining carriers of airborne diseases is a practicable measure. Bricker is. That’s right, I did. Right there in post… uh… yeah, where was that post again? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958/120 "2010-04-15T02:34:21Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Once your medical status has a significant chance of killing other people, I’d say it’s no longer a private concern. It’s still a private concern. I simply feel that the solution is worse than the problem > [@billfish678](#): > > But, if you think it is the moral right thing to do, why isnt it the legal thing to do? Because the government shouldn’t be legislating morals [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthy-happy-and-hot-planned-parenthood-opposes-mandatory-hiv-disclosure-before-sex/535958.md?page=7)