# Hearts, Minds, and Lies: Letters from the Front **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004 "2003-10-12T16:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/41 "2003-10-13T12:34:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*“I was struck nearly speechless by this complimentary thunderbolt! Never have I heard a compliment so well phrased. Or so richly deserved.” - Mark Twain > > All in all, I think I’m in agreement with Comrade **Airman Doors** on this one. \*\* Um… the pleasure was all mine? Don’t let this get to your head, **elucidator**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/42 "2003-10-13T12:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Then you haven’t been paying attention, dear. He uses it in every other post, at least. \*\* I searched the term “tightie righties” and found only 2 threads with it. This one, and one in GD. Was he spelling it differently than you did? ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/43 "2003-10-13T14:01:50Z")
**elucidator** , you continue to imply that these letters originated as part of some nefarious campaign. Do you have any evidence to support that conclusion whatsoever? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/44 "2003-10-13T14:11:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cckerberos \* > \*\ ***elucidator** , you continue to imply that these letters originated as part of some nefarious campaign. Do you have any evidence to support that conclusion whatsoever? \*\* Nefarious campaign? Phony, distasteful propaganda stunt more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/45 "2003-10-13T14:18:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cckerberos \* > \*\ ***elucidator** , you continue to imply that these letters originated as part of some nefarious campaign. Do you have any evidence to support that conclusion whatsoever? \*\* Setting aside the word “nefarious” for a moment, how ELSE could these letters have originated? Some form of spontaneous telepathy arising amongst overseas soldiers? Of COURSE it was a campaign! Now, as for the “nefarious” part: the letters were sent to newspapers in such a fashion as to look as if they were written by individual soldiers. That means they were INTENDED to fool newspapers and, by extension, the newspapers’ readers. Some of the letters were sent without the knowledge of the folks whose signatures appear on them. Intentionally deceiving the public, combined with publishing essentially fraudulent quotes by US soldiers, qualifies in my book as nefarious. As for **milroyj** ’s > [@](#): > > OK, I am officially an idiot. one of the genuine pleasures of this board for me is finding, once in a while, common ground with folks whose politics I disagree with in every way. It hapens very occasionally, but it does happen, that **Sam Stone** , or **IzzyR** , or december, or even **Shodan** , and I can agree on something. It gives me great joy now to be able to add **milroyj** to that list. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/46 "2003-10-13T14:19:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earl of the CC \* > \*\*The left for being orgasmically happy when people die in Iraq, \*\* Where the hell did you get that from? Explain. NOW, turd. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/47 "2003-10-13T14:24:07Z")
spooje, try spelling it “tighty”, the normal way, and you’ll get further. cckerberos, read the link and find out. But yeah, this looks like some overeager midlevel or junior officer, wanting to make points with his CO on his efficiency report for his initiative for identifying and acting on a problem. If this were being done by the White House or RNC, it would be a little more skillfully done - as in not all the letters being from the same outfit, some use of the ol’ Paraphraser to evade spellchecking, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/48 "2003-10-13T14:26:13Z")
My brother is going into the AF in February. Putting the fact that he’s not going to be anywhere near anybody’s front lines, I’ll just play let’s pretend and assume he’s somewhere in the Middle East. His name goes out on some letter praising Bush etc. to the heavens. We (our family) sees this letter and smells bullshit, because he’s anything but a fan of this administration. We find out that his name was used without his knowledge on said letter, which entirely misrepresents his personal views. We go up in flames. He’s going to have to keep his mouth shut enough as it is without stupid stunts like this going on. Arrrrgh! ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/49 "2003-10-13T14:28:29Z")
Putting ASIDE the fact. I need more coffee. Also, we smell bullshit, not we smells it. To think I’m looking for a secretarial job. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/50 "2003-10-13T14:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\* If this were being done by the White House or RNC, it would be a little more skillfully done - as in not all the letters being from the same outfit, some use of the ol’ Paraphraser to evade spellchecking, and so forth. \*\* You got a point there. It does seem too amateurish too have come from the White House… ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/51 "2003-10-13T14:41:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*Setting aside the word “nefarious” for a moment, how ELSE could these letters have originated? Some form of spontaneous telepathy arising amongst overseas soldiers? > > Of COURSE it was a campaign! > > Now, as for the “nefarious” part: the letters were sent to newspapers in such a fashion as to look as if they were written by individual soldiers. That means they were INTENDED to fool newspapers and, by extension, the newspapers’ readers. Some of the letters were sent without the knowledge of the folks whose signatures appear on them.\*\* I knew ‘nefarious’ was a good word choice 🙂 I don’t doubt that there was a campaign on a small scale. But the article cited by the OP doesn’t seem to support the notion seemingly pushed by **elucidator** that the GOP was behind it. The article seems to imply that it was a campaign within the 503rd. Of the 7 soldiers contacted, “one said he didn’t even sign it.” That says to me that the other 6 were familiar with the letter and did indeed sign it. I don’t find the explanation presented within the article to be implausible. I agree that it was unethical to send the letters to newspapers without the individual soldier’s knowledge, but I’m going to need more evidence before I can support **elucidator** ’s conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/52 "2003-10-13T14:47:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*It would appear that somebody in Iraq has been encouraging soldiers stationed there to write glowing reports to thier local newspapers for the Folks Back Home. \*\* **cckerberos** , I only reviewed the OP, but I don’t see where it implies the GOP is behind this. It suggests the culprit is “somebody in Iraq.” I agree that Bush is probably not behind this. I will say that I’ll eat my shorts if it comes out that the culprit here is a registered Democrat :). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/53 "2003-10-13T14:58:04Z")
**Daniel** and I’ll sell the tickets! ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/54 "2003-10-13T15:13:59Z")
**Daniel** , you’re right that I might be misinterpreting **elucidator**. He doesn’t outright say at any point that he believes Bush or the GOP to be behind this. But I would argue that some of his statements wouldn’t make much sense if he were only protesting a campaign within an individual military unit. The most clear indication of this is the last sentence of the OP: > [@](#): > > Can’t these people even lie plausibly anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/55 "2003-10-13T15:15:49Z")
I interpreted that line as referring to “these people who support the war.” Given that he refers to someone organizing it _in Iraq_, I think we can rule Bush out pretty safely – as far as I know, he’s not put himself in harm’s way yet. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/56 "2003-10-13T21:51:30Z")
Or ever, for that matter. The suggestion has been made that his is entirely due to the overeagerness of a mid-level officer, a breed widely known for independence of thought and action. This is plausible enough, in the absence of evidence, I suppose. It does bugger the question to some degree, or at least the question which most interests me: why would such an action be deemed desireable? Who sees a need for such letters, unless such letters are lacking? If the vast majority of “grunts” feel that things are going splendidly, and they are well satisfied with the value thier service is providing, wouldn’t our local papers be simply awash with such glad tidings? This was a stupid idea. Whether it was GeeDubya’s idea, or that of his Greasy Eminence, Karl Rove, or sprung entirely from the febrile imagination of Lt. Col. Sheisskopf, is small potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/57 "2003-10-14T03:09:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*one of the genuine pleasures of this board for me is finding, once in a while, common ground with folks whose politics I disagree with in every way. It hapens very occasionally, but it does happen, that **Sam Stone** , or **IzzyR** , or december, or even **Shodan** , and I can agree on something. It gives me great joy now to be able to add **milroyj** to that list. > > Daniel \*\* You’re most welcome. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/58 "2003-10-16T17:21:11Z")
elucidator, I can answer your latest question. I don’t think troops have a lot of time to be writing their hometown papers. To start with, I’ve heard there’s a shortage of writing supplies. Further, I’d hope that any soldier with pen and paper and time to write is going to spend that time writing his or her spouse, kids, parents, siblings… Finally, I don’t know why the average soldier would feel compelled to write the paper. It’s been my understanding that many families shield their deployed soldier from negative press at home, so soldiers might not even know there is a “need” for some positive firsthand spin from the troops. I guess I don’t \* know\* any of this for sure; it’s just what I’ve been told and advised by the soldier support organization I hear from. I think this effort was horribly misguided, FWIW. I’m familiar with the “form letter” for political causes but in many of those cases it’s fairly transparent that you’re signing an organization’s form letter. Heck, they are often all going to the same place, so it’s not like you’re hoping your Senator won’t notice that 500 letters or postcards are identical. This situation seems to be a little sneakier, and it doesn’t sit well with me at all. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/59 "2003-10-17T19:57:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*…I am stunned. Not by the mendacity, nor the underhanded attempt to curry favor Back Home. Nor even the attempt to exploit the soldiers in harms way for political gain. But by the sheer stupidity of the effort. > > Can’t these people even lie plausibly anymore? \*\* The proper way to do such things is to 1) pen a letter, 2) collect **all** signatures underneath, 3) make copies and 4) distribute. Instead, someone 1) penned a letter, 2) made copies, 3) collected **one** signature per copy and 4) distributed. Low-rank military stupidity. Not even a high-rank military stupidity. Stop lying about lies, please… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004/60 "2003-10-17T22:55:19Z")
Quite right. Not a “lie”. Merely a mendacious attempt to influence public opinion by presenting an entirely false image of direct and personal conviction. But not a “lie”. I stand rebuked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-and-lies-letters-from-the-front/207004.md?page=4)