# Hearts & Minds update: Shooting wounded prisoners in a mosque. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974 "2004-11-16T01:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/1 "2004-11-16T01:31:05Z")
[This _can’t_ be good.](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6496898/) > [@](#): > > Sites was present when a lieutenant from one of the units asked a Marine what had happened inside the mosque. The Marine replied that there were people inside. > ?Did you shoot them?? the lieutenant asked. > ?Roger that, sir,? the second Marine replied. > ?Were they armed?? the lieutenant asked. > The second Marine shrugged in reply. What the blue fuck was a guy who got _shot in the face the day before_ doing on duty? I assume that had _something_ to do with this going down in front of imbedded media. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/2 "2004-11-16T01:43:01Z")
An NBC camera crew filmed it. They showed part of it – minus the actual shot – on the news this evening. It’s hard to put a good spin with photo evidence. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/3 "2004-11-16T01:51:10Z")
No spin here – Rove and the Pubbies will try to suppress the story. They’ll ignore it where they can, try to drown it out with noise where they can. Not that the US voters care: not even Abu Ghraib kept 50 perecnt from voting for Bush. Half of my fellow Americans are callous scum. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/4 "2004-11-16T01:54:47Z")
This is what this illegal godforsaken war is turning out troops into. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/5 "2004-11-16T01:58:59Z")
I’m taking bets on how long before a major figure in the US administration explains to us how we’re so stupid for thinking the Geneva Convention could possibly apply in Falluja: Even odds at 32 hours, 8-1 for before midnight, no bets beyond Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![ninetypercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@ninetypercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ninetypercent)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/6 "2004-11-16T01:59:40Z")
> [@5que](#): > > An NBC camera crew filmed it. > > They showed part of it – minus the actual shot – on the news this evening. > > It’s hard to put a good spin with photo evidence. ☹ Who gets to be the judge? It’s war, after all. Who knows, who could have been reaching for a grenade. He’s high on adrenaline, it’s combat zone… and so on. Sounds good enough to me. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/7 "2004-11-16T02:04:53Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > He’s high on adrenaline, it’s combat zone… and so on. Sounds good enough to me. Not good enough for international law. So it’s a good job Dubya decided that international law is a crock’o’shit, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/8 "2004-11-16T02:05:04Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > Who gets to be the judge? It’s war, after all. Who knows, who could have been reaching for a grenade. He’s high on adrenaline, it’s combat zone… and so on. Sounds good enough to me. Shoot them all, let god sort them out sort of guy aren’t ya. ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/9 "2004-11-16T02:05:29Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > Who gets to be the judge? It’s war, after all. Who knows, who could have been reaching for a grenade. He’s high on adrenaline, it’s combat zone… and so on. Sounds good enough to me. The commanding officer said the individual was not a threat. The soldier in question has been removed from the unit and is being questioned. The wounded man had been wounded the day before and left in the mosque. I suspect his adrenaline was pretty much gone HOURS LATER when he was shot. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/10 "2004-11-16T02:07:41Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > No spin here – Rove and the Pubbies will try to suppress the story. They’ll ignore it where they can, try to drown it out with noise where they can. Not that the US voters care: not even Abu Ghraib kept 50 perecnt from voting for Bush. Half of my fellow Americans are callous scum. Why would they even try to suppress it? Election’s over. ---
**Author:** ![ninetypercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@ninetypercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ninetypercent)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/11 "2004-11-16T02:48:15Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Shoot them all, let god sort them out sort of guy aren’t ya. You are in denial if you do not think that my comment expressed the core of what many Americans will think if/when they hear about this incident. > [@5que](#): > > The commanding officer said the individual was not a threat. The soldier in question has been removed from the unit and is being questioned. > > The wounded man had been wounded the day before and left in the mosque. I suspect his adrenaline was pretty much gone HOURS LATER when he was shot. He was, apparently, aware enough to react to the presence of soldiers. As far as adrenaline being gone… I have no idea what you mean by that. The risk exists and that is why the Marine reacted. No one can expect a person to be perfectly stable in such a situation. There are a dozen justifications for his actions, all of which are perfectly reasonable to a majority of American citizens. If the Administration suppresses anything, it will be the fact that this dude is sent to a military prison. Retaining moral superiority is all about these rationalizations. No one will be crying for another dead brown-skinned terrorist - or whatever appellation you prefer to assign to them. That’s just how it is, and that is why very little spin is required. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/12 "2004-11-16T02:51:44Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > You are in denial if you do not think that my comment expressed the core of what many Americans will think if/when they hear about this incident. > > He was, apparently, aware enough to react to the presence of soldiers. As far as adrenaline being gone… I have no idea what you mean by that. The risk exists and that is why the Marine reacted. No one can expect a person to be perfectly stable in such a situation. There are a dozen justifications for his actions, all of which are perfectly reasonable to a majority of American citizens. If the Administration suppresses anything, it will be the fact that this dude is sent to a military prison. > > Retaining moral superiority is all about these rationalizations. No one will be crying for another dead brown-skinned terrorist - or whatever appellation you prefer to assign to them. That’s just how it is, and that is why very little spin is required. The man was a prisoner. Do you really think he wouls have still had weapons?? Give me a fucking break. The supporters of this illegal war will say anything. ---
**Author:** ![beckwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/13 "2004-11-16T02:51:58Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > This is what this illegal godforsaken war is turning out troops into. Took the words right out of my mouth. From out mouths to God’s, but then again Bush’s God is the only one that matters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/14 "2004-11-16T02:54:36Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > This is what this illegal godforsaken war is turning out troops into. A quibble. Minor point perhaps, but that’s the trouble with quibbles… Our troops are no different from anyone else’s. Put any country’s young men in a situation where callous brutality is a survival skill, and the results are predicatable. The justice or injustice of the war has d for diddly squat to do with it. But some days, I swear, it seems as if Osama is calling in the plays… ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/15 "2004-11-16T03:00:38Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I’m taking bets on how long before a major figure in the US administration explains to us how we’re so stupid for thinking the Geneva Convention could possibly apply in Falluja: Even odds at 32 hours, 8-1 for before midnight, no bets beyond Thursday. Perhaps **Bricker** will happen by this thread. My experience with the creditworthiness of wagerers on this board has been less good than his, or I’d take some action myself. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/16 "2004-11-16T03:07:07Z")
Gosh, to think that our Marines have taken a less-than-nurturing attitude towards the wounded terrorists and insurgents. Hrmmm, I wonder if the enemies’ propensity for using phoney surrenders, occupying mosques as forts, fake injuries, and other charming little tactics has something to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/17 "2004-11-16T03:09:33Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > He was, apparently, aware enough to react to the presence of soldiers. He was breathing. Did you watch the video? “He’s faking being fucking dead!” BANG “He’s dead now.” So far the military appears to be treating this as the potential crime that it is. Good for them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/18 "2004-11-16T03:09:49Z")
Geneva won’t even come up. “Isolated incident, combat stress. The vast majority of our troops are doing a wonderful job” (Subtext: if you make a big hairy ass deal out of this, you don’t support our heroes). **Manny** is rig…righ…not incorrect. But a mosque. It just _had_ to be a fuckin’ mosque. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/19 "2004-11-16T03:13:13Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Gosh, to think that our Marines have taken a less-than-nurturing attitude towards the wounded terrorists and insurgents. Hrmmm, I wonder if the enemies’ propensity for using phoney surrenders, occupying mosques as forts, fake injuries, and other charming little tactics has something to do with it? The evil of one’s enemies excuses nothing. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974/20 "2004-11-16T03:14:07Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Gosh, to think that our Marines have taken a less-than-nurturing attitude towards the wounded terrorists and insurgents. Hrmmm, I wonder if the enemies’ propensity for using phoney surrenders, occupying mosques as forts, fake injuries, and other charming little tactics has something to do with it? Ah yes, the usual excuse-by-expanding-the-set approach. “I heard that this one time some other guys in Iraq faked being wounded, so it’s okay to shoot any wounded man in the head.” Perhaps this was your personal approach to the problem of wounded enemies? Not very impressive for the side that’s supposed to be the good guys, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearts-minds-update-shooting-wounded-prisoners-in-a-mosque/274974.md?page=2)