# Hearty and Hardy - Homophones? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399 "2024-09-17T18:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/21 "2024-09-18T04:22:30Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > “Often”? (Though many hypercorrect to pronounce that “t.” I admit, pronouncing that “t” slightly irks me, for some reason, even though I live for dialectal variations and embrace regional pronunciations. It slightly bugs me, because we don’t pronounce the “t” in _listen_ or _moisten_. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/22 "2024-09-18T11:37:46Z")
I pronounce and hear the two words identically. In fact, all the homophones sound identical to me (Mary merry, etc). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/23 "2024-09-18T12:02:32Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is there a less objectionable way to say “_not_ taking care to enunciate clearly or to distinguish between phonemes that sound _almost_ the same?” Uh, yes? You can _clearly_ pronounce something with a flap, or _clearly_ pronounce it with a hard dental. One sound or the other isn’t inherently _clearer_ than the other. (Are you referring to a certain shape of an acoustic wave? If science has a precise term for this, I doubt it’s “clarity.”) > [@wolfpup](#): > > Right, “laziness” isn’t really the appropriate word here, but it’s something more like lack of precision. Nop, not that either. Each is “precise.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/24 "2024-09-18T12:03:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > And sticking to sounds exactly as they are written is nonsense, especially in the English language. “Knight,” anyone? “Often”? (Though many hypercorrect to pronounce that “t.” I admit, pronouncing that “t” slightly irks me, for some reason, even though I live for dialectal variations and embrace regional pronunciations. It’s not “nonsense” just because there are specific exceptions, any more than English grammar as a whole should be declared “nonsense” just because there are special exceptions. > [@pulykamell](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > I dislike the idea of slurring or entirely skipping consonants or vowels that are right there in the printed word! > > You must really hate Worcestershire sauce, then. 😉 And then there’s the marvelous aristocratic English name “Featherstonehaugh”. There’s a community college not far from here presumably named after one such gentleman. Its name: Fanshawe College. The moral: after centuries of slurring and mispronunciation, one may as well give up and change the spelling to acknowledge some modicum of respect for the association between how words are spelled and how they’re pronounced. In exactly the same vein, regarding that wonderful sauce you mention which is an essential ingredient in a good Caesar, note the surname of one of the principal characters in the Wodehouse “Jeeves” stories: Bertie Wooster. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/25 "2024-09-18T12:16:44Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In exactly the same vein, regarding that wonderful sauce you mention which is an essential ingredient in a good Caesar, note the surname of one of the principal characters in the Wodehouse “Jeeves” stories: Bertie Wooster. Shouldn’t it be “Woostah” for us N.A. ears in rhotic dialects? There’s an “r” that many Brits don’t pronounce, even though it’s right there in the written word (I suppose more accurately, it is used to “color” the preceding vowel.) I like my "r"s pronounced, dammit! Lazy bloody Brits! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/26 "2024-09-18T12:17:33Z")
There is a road near me called Orr Avenue. The first time someone gave me directions involving that road, I’d swear they said, “turn right on Whore Avenue”. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/27 "2024-09-18T12:43:54Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > NYC area here. I feel like I say the T in hearty, and that they sound slightly different, but I could just be _thinking_ I do since I know that’s the word I’m saying. Now I’m not sure anymore. Ha, same here. When I read the OP I tried saying ‘hearty’ about 57 times, seeing if I say it the same as ‘hardy’, or not. I assumed I did say it differently, but if I do it’s very subtle. Clearly pronouncing a hard ‘t’ as in ‘heart-y’ does give the word a stilted sound. I think what I do is pronounce the ‘t’ not quite as a ‘d’ sound but not a hard plosive ‘t’, either; somewhere in between the two. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/28 "2024-09-18T16:47:09Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > There is a road near me called Orr Avenue. I’d have asked if it had been named after Bobby, but you’re in the wrong state for that. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/29 "2024-09-18T17:10:45Z")
haha - that’s what I thought of as well. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/30 "2024-09-18T22:58:44Z")
I’m from Philly and I think they are identical. Both the d and t pronounced with a tap on the roof of the mouth. But not identical in my dialect are writer and rider. Not the middle consonant, but the initial vowel which is shorter in the first and a rare case in which length of vowel makes a difference in English. Similar comments for latter and ladder. Incidentally, in Canada, it seems that people pronounce the t in often. Drives me nuts. But wait till you hear how they pronounce lieutenant. @wolfpup? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/31 "2024-09-18T23:19:03Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I’m from Philly and I think they are identical. Both the d and t pronounced with a tap on the roof of the mouth. There was this woman who said something was a pidy. I did eventually figure out what she was saying. I think she was from New York, though; not positive. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/32 "2024-09-18T23:24:28Z")
They could also be effectively homophones because the speaker considers the phrase to be “hail and hardy” rather than “hale and hearty” and consequently the intonation is blurred. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399/33 "2024-09-18T23:25:46Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > But not identical in my dialect are writer and rider. Not the middle consonant, but the initial vowel which is shorter in the first and a rare case in which length of vowel makes a difference in English. Similar comments for latter and ladder. Same here. Different vowel sound there. For me, it’s not really an issue of length, but the first gets more towards an “ah” sound to start the diphthong, and the latter more an “uh.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hearty-and-hardy-homophones/1007399.md?page=1)