# Heat-treated Milk **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 2, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167 "2022-04-02T23:03:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/21 "2022-04-03T04:02:38Z")
I was younger then, but even so, I kinda figured that something was wrong with that story. Everyone said it was so, but everyone also told me that food bank boxes were full of crap. As I said, rumor. > [@Bootb](#): > > Not necessarily all of it, at least not in the past. I took the time to read the start of that very long file and realized that it was discussing an additional treatment to increase the amount of Vit. D in the milk. This is/was something that was done along with pasteurization (heat) and homogenizing (violently separating and recombining the proper amounts of milk and fat). Fortifying the vitamin D in milk doesn’t affect the cheese making process so I don’t really pay attention to if the milk I am buying is fortified. I should check the dairy case next time I’m in a store and see if they are still doing it out here in the land of too much sun. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/22 "2022-04-03T04:07:19Z")
It’s also possible that in the meantime, this food bank got sources for better quality, more nutritious food, that they didn’t have before, and that those people really were telling you the truth. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/23 "2022-04-03T04:08:04Z")
are we talking about the milk that I see that sits in juice-type boxes that says "no refrigeration needed? i find those at the dollar tree all the time on the juice asile ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/24 "2022-04-03T04:09:05Z")
I suppose you could be right. Many things can happen in a month (retired, slept for a week, started volunteering). I rather doubt your theory, but I already know that you are a much nicer person than me and will react in a kinder way. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/25 "2022-04-03T04:11:30Z")
Yes, that’s it. Parmalat is the most common brand, but I’ve seen others. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/26 "2022-04-03T04:35:57Z")
Yep I find UHT milk tastes different but I don’t mind the flavour. I was surprised to find on holiday in Switzerland that it was difficult to find fresh milk. At least it was in the ski resort places we were staying at. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/27 "2022-04-03T07:21:00Z")
It’s available here in the CA Bay Area. Normally, I only see it with the Horizon brand, which also advertises itself as organic. I’m not sure how they came to bundle the two “features” together, but that’s what I see. There are actually two types of ultra-pasteurized milk. The pasteurization process is the same, but if it’s just labeled “ultra-pasteurized” it only lasts for a few weeks, refrigerated. If it’s labeled UHT, it additionally comes in aseptic packaging–that is, tetrapaks, or those foil and paper juice box things. _That_ stuff lasts for months, unrefrigerated (as long as you don’t open it). It does taste different–a little burnt, I guess. I prefer normal milk. And while UHT milk doesn’t exactly go bad, after a while it de-homogenizes into “chunky” milk. Not too appetizing, even if it’s safe to drink. I do see ultra-pasteurized cream and half-and-half in other brands. That doesn’t seem to have much of a taste difference in my experience. Maybe the fats aren’t as affected as the proteins. ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/28 "2022-04-03T08:06:51Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > To me, UHT has a “cooked” taste that regular milk doesn’t. I’ll agree with this, and add that, for the same milkfat ratio, it doesn’t quite behave the same for lattes. Many people buy it by the liter here. I know some people who only buy UHT milk, as they don’t have space in the fridge, and they can but a lot at one time. This means they don’t have to buy milk every few days. We tend to buy some before we go on a trip, to make sure we have milk in the fridge for when we get back. During the first weeks of the pandemic I bought some in case we got sick and couldn’t go to the store. Many other people did the same - I think that’s the only time that I’ve see empty space on that set of shelves. At my grocery store, the UHT milk is on shelves near the refrigerated stuff. It’s in the same set of shelves as the alternative milks, most of which do not need to be refrigerated, and eggs, which are sold unrefrigerated (Switzerland). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/29 "2022-04-03T08:26:42Z")
It’s available here in the UK as ‘UHT’ (Ultra Heat Treated) in 1 litre and 500ml tetra cartons, typically in skimmed, semi skimmed and full fat varieties. The price is somewhere around 75% to 85% of fresh pasteurised milk from the chiller. I can tell the difference in taste - some people don’t like it, but I find that it tastes sweeter and somehow more creamy. The taste used to be a lot more pronounced than it is now - I assume this is probably because of deliberate changes in the process of sterilising the milk to retain a flavour closer to fresh milk. I get my milk delivered in 1 pint glass bottles with foil lids, to the doorstep, by a traditional ‘milkman’ - I’ve done this my whole life ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/30 "2022-04-03T08:31:24Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I get my milk delivered in 1 pint glass bottles with foil lids, to the doorstep, by a traditional ‘milkman’ - I’ve done this my whole life Does he ride in a horse and carriage? 😃 My Mum had her milk delivered not long ago but the service stopped due to lack of interest. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/31 "2022-04-03T08:47:03Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#): > > I used to live on Oahu 30 or so years ago and noticed right away that the milk tasted off. Having moved around the world many times, I’ve become accustomed to the fact that many simple foods are different - not necessarily better or worse, just different - depending on where you live and where your food is sourced from. Dairy products differ A LOT - the texture, smell and taste of butter is not the same for someone living in Jakarta buying Australian butter versus someone living in Ohio buying Land O’ Lakes. Oddly, carrots were another simple, completely unprocessed food product that I found varies substantially. The color, size of the core, taste, and palatability of the peel varied radically from country to country. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/32 "2022-04-03T09:02:54Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 1. Are boxes of milk available where you live? Yes (Cape Town, South Africa) > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Are they cheaper than jugs or bags of refrigerated milk? Cheaper. R78 for 6 1ℓ cartons vs R40 for 2ℓ full-cream Ayrshire milk at my local store so a 3:2 differential. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Big boxes, or just juice box equivalents? Same size range as regular milk, up to 2ℓ boxes. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > 2.Do you have a strong preference? I have a preference for regular, but it’s not _strong_. We _always_ have UHT milk on hand, in any case. We use it up when we go on trips. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Do you notice a difference in taste? Yes, but again, it’s not strong. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Does he ride in a horse and carriage? An electric _[milk float](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float)_ was more traditional, in our lifetimes. Not sure about Southern England. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/33 "2022-04-03T09:55:51Z")
I can tell the difference, but have avoided both since I discovered my allergies. It has this extra taste that regular milk doesn’t, which I think is just a slightly “cooked” taste. Dad found he couldn’t really tell the difference, and so buys that because he uses milk so infrequently. I buy shelf-stable rice milk myself, which does taste different from the same brand that isn’t shelf-stable, even though the packaging (but not shape of container) is identical. I prefer the refrigerated one, as it has something they added to make it have a creamier mouthfeel. It otherwise tastes the same. Shelf-stable cow milk does seem to be more expensive, but not hugely so. The shelf-stable rice milk is basically the same price. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/34 "2022-04-03T10:56:34Z")
Box milk is the everyday milk for nearly everyone in my part of Europe. Here is one of the common regional brands: [![](https://www.nutrimaxorganic.com/products/product_images/UHT_organic_milk.jpg) ](https://www.nutrimaxorganic.com/products/product_images/UHT_organic_milk.jpg) You can find fresh milk, either by going directly to a dairy (lots of cows around here) or at a larger grocery store where a small section of the refrigerated case will be set aside for it. It’s definitely more expensive than the box milk, by a lot. Kitchens here are much smaller than in the US. In our first apartment, the refrigerator was an under-cabinet model, with about half the interior volume of an average dishwasher. This is normal. Very very few people have a full size refrigerator the way an American would think of it. As a result, you just don’t have the space to dedicate to a gallon of fresh milk the way you would in the States. You buy a six-pack of one-liter boxes, and you open and refrigerate them one at a time. I don’t notice any difference in the taste, like how heat-treated milk in the US is recognizably sweeter. I haven’t tried making cheese or anything else like that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/35 "2022-04-03T11:32:45Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > My Mum had her milk delivered not long ago but the service stopped due to lack of interest. There’s a company local to me that delivers, and their subscriptions went through the roof during the start of the pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/36 "2022-04-03T12:39:00Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > As a result, you just don’t have the space to dedicate to a gallon of fresh milk the way you would in the States. You buy a six-pack of one-liter boxes, and you open and refrigerate them one at a time. I’ve seen this or something like it so often I have to ask - is the US the only place where you can buy fresh milk in a less than gallon- size container ? I have plenty of room to store a gallon of milk, but I won’t use it before it goes bad, so I generally buy the quart- size. If I want a smaller container ( to keep in my hotel room for coffee, maybe) there are single serving containers of fresh milk. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/37 "2022-04-03T12:46:49Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > is the US the only place where you can buy fresh milk in a less than gallon- size container ? No. In fact they don’t come as big as a gallon here (New Zealand) at all, that’s like 4.5 litres! Our fresh milk comes in 3 litre, 2 litre, 1 litre, and 600 ml. There may be smaller but I haven’t noticed. > [@Cervaise](#): > > Kitchens here are much smaller than in the US. In our first apartment, the refrigerator was an under-cabinet model, with about half the interior volume of an average dishwasher. This is normal. Very very few people have a full size refrigerator the way an American would think of it. Right. Which part of Europe are you in? I was confused why UHT milk was ubiquitous in Switzerland when I was under the impression they had cows coming out of their ears. A lack of space makes sense. We used to go through 9 litres every few days when the kids were still reliant on milk for bedtime comfort food. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/38 "2022-04-03T12:51:04Z")
A gallon is **3.7854** Liters. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/39 "2022-04-03T13:04:37Z")
Sadly no - used to be an electric milk float but now it’s a fairly standard chilled delivery van. The service very nearly disappeared completely, but it seemed to just hang on long enough to diversify into a more general groceries delivery service that still includes the bottled milk. I hope it outlasts me. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2022, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167/40 "2022-04-03T13:13:03Z")
The only UHT milk I have had was from Organic Valley which sponsors a local paddle/bike/run triathlon. I assume they sell it in addition to having it free for racers. I usually have the chocolate, so it doesn’t taste much different than non UHT milk. Brian [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heat-treated-milk/962167.md?page=3)