# Heather Bresch, kindly go fuck yourself with an epi-pen **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2016, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887 "2016-08-25T07:44:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/121 "2016-08-30T01:23:47Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The Patented Medicine Price Review Board in Canada has prevented gouging on many essential drugs, and most recently prevented the EpiPen fiasco from spilling over into Canada, where they remain around $100 per pack of two (actually less, in US dollars). There are no shortages because it turns out, unsurprisingly, that Heather Bresch is quite delighted to sell for CAD $100 a product that costs about 30 cents to make, though not quite as delighted as selling it for $600. And, despite price controls, Canada has a thriving pharmaceutical research and manufacturing industry. Everything is better in Canada, right? :rolleyes: BTW, do you realize that the Patented Medicine Price Review Board is about as Orwellian as one can get??? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/122 "2016-08-30T03:00:21Z")
No, I did not! At this point, we have your solemn assurance that it is so? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/123 "2016-08-30T03:08:11Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Everything is better in Canada, right? :rolleyes: > > BTW, do you realize that the Patented Medicine Price Review Board is about as Orwellian as one can get??? Do you know what “Orwellian” means? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/124 "2016-08-30T03:36:13Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > And in the latest idiocy, Mylan has decided to launch a generic version of the epi-pen listing at $300. > [link](http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/08/29/mylan-generic-epipen/89528460/) > > So instead of just lowering their price to $300, they are going to the expense of developing all new packaging material and reshipping the exact same product under a new label for $300. Presumably, they are still making a profit at this price. But by maintaining the brand-name price at $600, they can still collect more than that from the combination of insurance contracts and patient copays, especially since the patient copay cards will be no good on the generic, so patients will go for the brand-name medication, at least until their insurance companies start to mandate the generic. Can you explain that part about patient copay cards? I’ve never encountered that before. What would cause the insurance companies to be slow to mandate the generic? Are they that bureaucratic about losing money? ---
**Author:** ![Debillw3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Debillw3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debillw3)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/125 "2016-08-30T05:02:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I got the vial-and-syringe both times I had a severe allergic reaction, once in an ambulance and once in an ER. So his experience was not unique. I didn’t say it was unique. I said it wasn’t wide reaching enough to do what they did, which is to flat out say “That’s how it is. Period. No questions asked.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/126 "2016-08-30T06:17:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Do you know what “Orwellian” means? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/127 "2016-08-30T06:42:33Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Yes. Obviously the scariest thing in 1984 was when Big Brother kept drug prices reasonable, but still profitable. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/128 "2016-08-30T06:49:17Z")
> [@Debillw3](#): > > I didn’t say it was unique. I said it wasn’t wide reaching enough to do what they did, which is to flat out say “That’s how it is. Period. No questions asked.” Again, I have been an EMT for over 8 years. I’ve administered several injections of epi via epi-pen, both from our EMS bags, and belonging to the patient. I don’t recall having seen any brand besides the one I mentioned before. Now, it’s entirely possible that I have forgotten seeing another brand, or the vial and syringe mentioned upthread. I can tell you that neither of those are standard in the Louisville, Kentucky/Southern Indiana region of the country. I can’t speak to their popularity in other parts of the country, however. I hope that this has helped clarify the issue. I trust that it has not. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/129 "2016-08-30T06:53:59Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Everything is better in Canada, right? :rolleyes: > > BTW, do you realize that the Patented Medicine Price Review Board is about as Orwellian as one can get??? So what exactly does this make Canada and Canadians in your point of view? Brainwashed? Stupid? Why do so few of them feel oppressed by any of this? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/130 "2016-08-30T07:55:00Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Artificial price controls almost never work (I can’t think of any that have). The problem is that by their very nature they create shortages. It might appear to work in Canada because the number of Canadians taking the drug is small compared to the number of Americans. That’s bullshit. It’s been done in many, many countries. And insurance companies negotiate price caps all the time. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/131 "2016-08-30T12:37:08Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > Do you know what “Orwellian” means? > > Yes. No. But then, I’ve never seen anything you’ve ever commented on that you’ve ever understood. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Obviously the scariest thing in 1984 was when Big Brother kept drug prices reasonable, but still profitable. That would be the Randian apocalypse. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/132 "2016-08-30T13:55:43Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Even if the US military had completely stopped buying them, we’re talking about a product that’s made and sold globally. How have Mylan prices in Germany, Russia or South Africa behaved, to pick three markets with very different medical systems and situations? In Norway, they cost about U$ 60. But we are a very high-cost country and medical costs are capped at U$ 300/year. Everything beyond that is free. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/133 "2016-08-30T14:43:04Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > So “free market” = “anarchy”? Anarchy with prevailing recognition of property rights, yes. Though, you wouldn’t need to go that far to abolish intellectual property laws and unleash competition. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/134 "2016-08-30T14:48:57Z")
[http://stlr.org/archived-volumes/volume-x-2008-2009/torrance/](http://stlr.org/archived-volumes/volume-x-2008-2009/torrance/) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/135 "2016-08-30T15:08:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Anarchy with prevailing recognition of property rights, yes. Though, you wouldn’t need to go that far to abolish intellectual property laws and unleash competition. So, Anarchy Lite? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/136 "2016-08-30T15:42:04Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Artificial price controls almost never work (I can’t think of any that have). The problem is that by their very nature they create shortages. It might appear to work in Canada because the number of Canadians taking the drug is small compared to the number of Americans. Canada, France, the UK, Germany, Spain, Norway… ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/137 "2016-08-30T16:02:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, Anarchy Lite? Refreshingly smooth, yet full-bodied. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/138 "2016-08-30T16:05:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Obviously the scariest thing in 1984 was when Big Brother kept drug prices reasonable, but still profitable. Can someone give me a definition of reasonable with regard to drug prices? I’m not looking for extreme example such as this one to use as a strawman, but what you think that a reasonable profit on a drug would be that would still allow for investing in development in this space. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/139 "2016-08-30T16:21:59Z")
The EU has half a dozen companies making generic epi-pens. The existence of competition is what keeps the price low. The difference between the EU and US in this respect is not their healthcare systems, intellectual property regimes, or regulation of drugs _as such_. The difference is that Mylan happens to have captured the regulatory bureaucracy in the US, to prevent the entrance of generic competitors, in a way that has not happened in the EU. The solution is simple. Pass a bill that says that if an EU regulatory authority approves of a drug or device, then it is automatically approved for sale in the US. It is much harder (impossible?) for a company like Mylan to capture the FDA-equivalents in a dozen countries. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887/140 "2016-08-31T19:30:06Z")
> **[Here's What's Really Wrong About Mylan's EpiPen Price Scandal](https://fortune.com/2016/08/25/epipen-mylan-cost-coupon/)** > > It's happened before. > [@](#): > > Mylan revealed on Thursday that it wasn’t pocketing the full $608 EpiPen wholesale price in the first place, but only $274 per prescription, with the remaining $334 split between the other parties. And despite the fact that Mylan raised EpiPen prices roughly 30% in 2015 while prescription volume also grew 7%, the company’s revenue on the drug actually fell slightly, as the other players took even bigger cuts, according to Raffat. Running those numbers, I calculate that last year the list price was $529, of which Mylan got $295 and “the other parties” got $234. This year, Mylan raised the list price to $608 but got only $274 (thus making slightly less revenue even while selling 7% more units). While “the other parties” increased their cut from $234 to $334, or an increase of 42%!! So who deserves to be fucked with an epi-pen here?? > [@](#): > > “Here’s the perverse thing: Had we reduced the list price, I couldn’t ensure that everyone who needs an EpiPen gets one,” Mylan CEO Heather Bresch told CNBC Thursday. > [@](#): > > Besides, if Mylan were to actually reduce the price of EpiPen, it would have ramifications other than just lowering what individuals pay for the drug. Insurers would probably also want to pay proportionally less in reimbursements. That could have a domino effect on the other middlemen between Mylan and the patient, such as drug distributors, pharmacy benefit managers, and pharmacies, who might also have to settle for less revenue per EpiPen sale. **Some pharmacy benefit managers might not want to provide as much coverage of EpiPen** (…) My interpretation of this is that “the other parties” negotiated and actually threatened to reduce availability of this life saving treatment unless they would get more profits!! **So who deserves to be fucked with an epi-pen here??** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heather-bresch-kindly-go-fuck-yourself-with-an-epi-pen/763887.md?page=8)