# Hebrew Gods? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 5, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626 "2004-05-05T12:57:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/1 "2004-05-05T12:57:46Z")
I’ve been interested in the original God’s of the Hebrews for a while now and I’m wonder exactly what the current thought about them are. It’s my understanding that Jehovah wasn’t the only God worshipped in ancient Hebrew life. I seem to remember Asherah, Ba’al, and a God of fertility. I haven’t done a lot of digging yet, so I could be totally off-base with this, but I’m looking for several places to start. I would put this in GQ, but I think that there might be some dispute regarding the multiplicity of Hebrew Gods. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/2 "2004-05-05T14:03:05Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I’ve been interested in the original God’s of the Hebrews for a while now and I’m wonder exactly what the current thought about them are. It’s my understanding that Jehovah wasn’t the only God worshipped in ancient Hebrew life. I seem to remember Asherah, Ba’al, and a God of fertility. I haven’t done a lot of digging yet, so I could be totally off-base with this, but I’m looking for several places to start. > > I would put this in GQ, but I think that there might be some dispute regarding the multiplicity of Hebrew Gods. Very simply put, Judaism has only one God. Always has, always will. That doesn’t mean, however, that the Jewish people from time to time haven’t had elements within it that worshipped foreign gods, just as there are Jews today who convert to other religions. In Biblical times, certain elements of the Jewish population were known to “backslide” into the worship of the gods of the Canaanites and other indigenous persons to the area. But that doesn’t make said worship or said “gods” a part of Judaism. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/3 "2004-05-05T16:02:18Z")
I guess it depends on how you define “Judaism.” Archaeologically speaking, the Yahweh cult did not really become exclusively monotheistic until the reign of Josiah. Before that, the people who can be culturally identified as “Israelites” worshipped Canaanite deities like Baal and his consort Astoreth right alongside of Yahweh. Temples to Canaanite fertility gods are commonplace in rural areas outside of Jerusalem as late as the 8th century BCE. The Yahweh cult was henotheist for centuries before it was monotheist. Josiah established Yahweh as the exclusive God of worship for the Israelites and also established the temple in Jerusalem as the exlusive temple for sacrifices. Doing so cemented Jersalem’s political power in Judea and was really the beginning of “Judaism” as a discreet religion from Canaanite henotheism. [Polytheism in early Judaism](http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1994/1/1poly94.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/4 "2004-05-05T16:11:12Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > That doesn’t mean, however, that the Jewish people from time to time haven’t had elements within it that worshipped foreign gods . . . No, **zev.** Baal was a foreign, non-Hebrew god. Dagon was a foreign, non-Hebrew god. Astarte was a foreign, non-Hebrew goddess. Asherah was **not;** she was Yahweh’s **wife,** before he divorced her. In fact, Yahweh might have had two or even three wives in the beginning. From Chapter 1 of the novel _King Jesus,_ by Robert Graves (London: Cassell & Company, 1946): > [@](#): > > The fact [says Agabus the Decapolitan, writing in 93 A.D.] is that the Jews as a nation have persuaded themselves that they differ in one particular from all others that live on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea: namely, that they never owed any duty to the Great Triple moon-goddess who is generally reputed to have mothered the Mediterranean races, or to any other goddess or nymph whatsoever. This claim is untenable, for their sacred books preserve clear traces of their former attachment, notably in the accounts that they give of their heroes Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob and Moses. . . . [The Jews] have proclaimed Jehovah as the sole Ruler of the Universe and represented the Goddess as a mere demoness, witch, Queen of Harlots, succuba and prime mischief-maker. > > Jehovah, it seems clear, was once regarded as a devoted son of the Great Goddess, who obeyed her in all things and by her favour swallowed up a number of variously named rival gods and godlings . . . Later (if it is permitted to write in this style) he did exactly what his Roman counterpart, Capitoline Jove, has done: he formed a supernal Trinity in conjunction with two of the Goddess’s three persons, namely, Anatha of the Lions and Ashima of the Doves, the counterparts of Juno and Minerva; the remaining person, a sort of Hecate named Sheol, retiring to rule the infernal regions. Most Jews hold that she still reigns there, for they say, “Jehovah has no part in Sheol”, and quote the authority of the 115th Psalm: “The dead praise not Jehovah, nor do any that go down into silence.” . . . God without Goddess, the Romans and Greeks agree, is spiritual insufficiency; but this the Jews deny. > > In a somewhat obscene passage in the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel is to be found Jehovah’s bill of divorcement against his two partner-Goddesses, who are there named Aholah and Aholibah. Nevertheless, the Trinity continued undissolved in a Jewish Temple at Elephantine in Upper Egypt until five hundred years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/5 "2004-05-05T16:49:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Astarte was a foreign, non-Hebrew goddess. Asherah was **not;** Astarte and Asherah are the same goddess…Astarte is the Phoenician version, Asherah is the Canaanite version. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/6 "2004-05-05T16:57:32Z")
I’ll also point out, just for the record. 1. **King Jesus** is a novel, and not a scholarly work. 2. In Ezekiel, Aholah and Aholibah are Samaria and Jerusalem. The passage is condemning them as harlots because they’re worshiping foreign gods. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/7 "2004-05-05T17:08:33Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] 1. **King Jesus** is a novel, and not a scholarly work.QUOTE] Of course it was a novel, but it was obviously **based** on scholarship and Graves was one heck of scholar. Check out _The White Goddess._ He wasn’t just making this stuff up, it all had support in the history and lore of the ancient Mediterranean world. Which doesn’t necessarily mean he was right about everything, only that he was no crank and there was some solid basis for his highly controversial theories. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/8 "2004-05-05T18:50:04Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] > [@Captain Amazing](#): > > 1. **King Jesus** is a novel, and not a scholarly work.QUOTE] > > Of course it was a novel, but it was obviously **based** on scholarship and Graves was one heck of scholar. Check out _The White Goddess._ He wasn’t just making this stuff up, it all had support in the history and lore of the ancient Mediterranean world. Which doesn’t necessarily mean he was right about everything, only that he was no crank and there was some solid basis for his highly controversial theories. I’ve read a little about Kiersey Graves, about his work ‘sixteen crucified saviors’, and it seems as though some of his critics harshly condemn his work; I can’t comment because I haven’t read the book, yet, but I was wondering what the scholarly opinion of that book was. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/9 "2004-05-05T18:59:12Z")
I’m probably displaying my own ignorance, but: > [@Meatros](#): > > It’s my understanding that Jehovah wasn’t the only God worshipped in ancient Hebrew life. and > [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Very simply put, Judaism has only one God. Always has, always will. The OP is about ancient Hebrew dieties, but later posters seem to be talking about Judaism. I thought that the Hebrews were the people and Judaism the religion. And while the two groups had an extremely large overlap, there was not necessarily a complete correspondence. (The context here is ancient peoples and religions, not extant ones.) So, I interpret the original question as “What religions did non-Judaic Hebrews have?” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/10 "2004-05-05T19:01:32Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I’ve read a little about Kiersey Graves, about his work ‘sixteen crucified saviors’, … Just so you don’t get confused…Kersey Graves was a 19th century American atheist. Robert Graves, who wrote _King Jesus_, _The White Goddess_, and _I, Claudius_ was an 20th century Anglo-Irish poet, novelist, and literary critic. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/11 "2004-05-05T19:35:36Z")
**Meatros** – I know a Canaanite reconstructionist peripherally; she at least used to have a few webpages on the subject, but I’m having a hard time tracking them down. I’ve dropped her a line asking her where her English-language pages are and whether she has any other URLs she’d recommend. (What relationship the Canaanites had to the Hebrews is a separate debate – but it’s Canaanite divinity-names one sees sometimes in the texts.) **BrainGlutton** – _The White Goddess_ is . . . not historically accurate. (There are a couple of reviews on Amazon’s front page that cover some of the big issues.) This is a big deal, because it was such potent mythmaking material that a lot of studies and attitudes have been warped by it after the fact. (Have a look at mainstream modern paganism and count the triple goddess worshippers and drivel. Then have a look at the reconstructionists and count the rants about people misinterpreting their divinities as triple goddesses or as aligning to ‘maiden’, ‘mother’, or ‘crone’. Don’t get me started on the one I saw recently – Bast-Isis-Sekhmet. :smack: Er, unless you want to know.) . . . whoa, that was fast. **Meatros** , this is the English-language site link for the Canaanite recon: [http://www.witchcraft.co.il/english/canaan.htm](http://www.witchcraft.co.il/english/canaan.htm) It’s a little limited at the moment, but her sidebar has a lot of links to other sites. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/12 "2004-05-05T19:46:19Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Just so you don’t get confused…Kersey Graves was a 19th century American atheist. Robert Graves, who wrote _King Jesus_, _The White Goddess_, and _I, Claudius_ was an 20th century Anglo-Irish poet, novelist, and literary critic. D’oh! You know, I _felt_ I should include something to the effect of “is this the same ‘Graves’?”, but in a moment of haste I figured ‘ah whatever, how many Graves could there really be?’ That’ll show me… In any event, what is the reputation of 16 crucified saviors? I’ve just read a few online reviews and haven’t had a chance to read it myself. Incidentally, what exactly is the difference between Ancient Hebrews and Judaism? I’m kinda fuzzy on the distinction, which could be part of the reason why my OP needs some interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/13 "2004-05-05T21:41:33Z")
I was googling for the content of the Elephantine manuscripts, who refer to other gods worshipped along with YHWH in a jewish community installed in EGypt, including YHWH’s ashera (probably his spouse) , and found [this page](http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/bible.htm) which seems to include many informations directly related to the OP’s question. I didn’t read it thoroughly, but here’s some quotes : > [@](#): > > Judaism’s monotheism did not appear as a fully-developed system. Rather, it developed over centuries. […] The religion of the ancient Hebrews did not exist in a cultural vacuum. The various religions of the Semitic and pre-Semitic Middle East were, from the earliest recorded times, thoroughly polytheistic. > [@](#): > > Of all the names given to God in the Hebrew Bible, Elohim is curious because unlike the others it uses a plural noun to identify God, while the other names, like El or Yahweh, are singular. […] Before the Hebrew Bible was written, the Semitic religions of the Middle East universally distinguished between El, sometimes called Bull El to emphasize his great power and fertility in his role as the Father of the Gods, and the Great Assembly of those other gods, his children. El was also referred to as the Father of Years, and the Father of Humanity, names that emphasize his role the the antecedent and ultimate source of all things. > [@](#): > > The pantheon of ancient Sumer was borrowed by Sumer’s northern neighbors, the Semitic peoples of Mesopotamia. Generally, they substituted Semitic names for the Sumerian gods, but the structure of the pantheon, including the distinction between the Divine Progenitors and the Assembly of Gods was maintained in the Semitic religions–although each Semitic people typically substituted the name of their local chief god for that of the king among the gods of the Assembly […] the Elohim were ruled by a son of El called Marduk […].Among the Canaanites, neighbors and political competitors of the Hebrews, he was called simply “Lord” or Ba’al, […] . Ba’al’s chief rival for kingship among the gods was Yamm, meaning “Sea”, who also sometimes took the guise of a storm-god. His personal name was Yaw or, in some texts, Yawu. […] The name of Yamm is intriguingly similar to the name of the Hebrew deity, Yahweh, the short form of which was Yah. The similarity of names is parallelled by a similarity of roles, since Ba’al was considered to be the chief rival of Yahweh by the Hebrews. Although this identification not a certain one, the two are thought to have been the same deity by some scholars. > [@](#): > > Like the Canaanites, the Hebrews regarded the true name of their tribal god, Yahweh, as too sacred for common use, and they too usually called him simply “Lord” (Hebrew adonai or, sometimes, baal). As the original occupants of the lands which were taken by the Hebrews to form their own kingdom, the Canaanites were the traditional enemies of Israel, but the deity that each held to be the king of the gods should probably be understood as having been been the same deity. The parallels between Ba’al and Yahweh are quite detailed. For instance, both peoples referred to him, in his role as the god of storms and war by the euphemism, "the rider on the clouds (KTU 1.3 II 40 and Psalm 68:5). > [@](#): > > So it is more likely that, whatever the origin of his name, Yahweh took over the history of Ba’al in Hebrew folklore and is best understood as the Hebrew equivalent of that Canaanite god.That Yahweh was originally a son of El is attested by a document (KTU 1.1 IV 14) from Ugarit, a Palestinian site occupied by neighbors of Israel. It reads sm . bny . yw . ilt, which translates as “The name of the son of god, Yahweh.” > [@](#): > > Yahweh ruled as the king of the other children of El. In this role, he presided whenever the Assembly of the Gods whenever they met in council. The preeminance of Yahweh over the other gods is repeatedly asserted in Psalms. For instance, in Psalm 86, we are told that “There is none like you among the gods, O Yahweh” (Psalm 86:8), and Psalm 89 is even more specific in explaining that the “gods” in question are the sons of El who met as the Assembly of the Gods: […] Who among the sons of gods is like Yahweh? […] (Psalms 89:5-7) I would note that other people believe that YHWH and El were different gods, YHWH being a tribal god (according to some a moutain god) which was conflated with El when the nomadic hebrews mixed with the city dwellers worshipping El as a main god of a polytheistic system which was close to henotheism. Still from the same page, some comments about YHWH’ “asherah” > [@](#): > > In the earliest Semitic religion, as preserved in Akkadian texts, the divine parents of the other gods were Bull Eland his wife Asherah of the Sea. […], the word asherah had come to be used as a simple generic for goddesses and especially meant “divine consort” when used with the name of any male deity. > [@](#): > > Israel’s Yahweh was no exception to this pattern, as attested by both non-Israelite documents from Palestine and by Hebrew writings as well. His consort was referred to by the phrase “his asherah”. > [@](#): > > Examples of texts that refer to Yahweh and his consort include inscriptions found at Kuntillet `Ajrud, dated between 850 and 750 BCE that read, "I bless you through Yahweh of Samaria, and through his asherah!" From the same period at `El Qom we find the following text: “Uriyahu, the king, has written this. Blessed be Uriyahu through Yahwe, and his enemies have been conquered through Yahweh’s asherah.” Followers of Yahweh continued to worship Ashtoret until the thrid century BCE, as attested by the Elephantine Papyri. > [@](#): > > From earlier times until the third century, devotion to Asherah waxed and waned. Her popularity was often widespread among the people, but sometimes opposed by the prophets of Israel. For instance, her worship by the women of Judah was condemned by Jeremiah, although those to whom he preached responded "As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of Yahweh, we are not going to listen to you. […] > [@](#): > > But by the third century BCE, the Hebrews had come to view Yahweh as the only god and he eclipsed the other gods until they disappeared from view. The page’s author then go on discussing the transition from polytheism (YHWH is the main god) to henotheism (HYWH is the only god which should be worshipped by the Hebrews) to monotheism (YHWH is the _only god_, period.) first during the seventh century BC when altars and temples to other gods are destroyed, then during the exile in Babylone when a major theological switch takes place. ---
**Author:** ![Zahava424](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/76d3ee/32.png) [@Zahava424](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zahava424)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/14 "2004-05-06T00:22:40Z")
The following information is based on the Old Testament and on Jewish teachings. The Hebews were the predecessors to the Jews, ie the Jews before they became Jews in the codifying moment of Judaism, which was the giving of the Torah in 1313 BCE. The Canaanites were the inhabitants of the land of Israel before it was connquered by Joshua and his armies in the sixth book of the Old Testament. This was begun in 1273 BCE and mostly finished by 1259 BCE. Asheirah was a Canaanite goddess, worshipped in idol form, and in Jewish tradition she is NOT a consort of YHWH, though an attempt may have been made to excuse the Jews’ worship of her by glossing over the sin with such a statement. There were many Canaanite or similarly non-Hebrew gods worshipped by Jews during dark periods in Jewish history. That’s esentially what the Old Testament is about for a large section starting in the book of Judges. All the calculations I just made were done in an effort to translate the Hebrew years to the calendar we use, taking into account the fact that there was never a year zero. I may have made a mistake, but I think that it’s all correct. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/15 "2004-05-06T00:37:26Z")
> [@Zahava424](#): > > The following information is based on the Old Testament and on Jewish teachings. > > The Hebews were the predecessors to the Jews, ie the Jews before they became Jews in the codifying moment of Judaism, which was the giving of the Torah in 1313 BCE. > > The Canaanites were the inhabitants of the land of Israel before it was connquered by Joshua and his armies in the sixth book of the Old Testament. This was begun in 1273 BCE and mostly finished by 1259 BCE. > > Asheirah was a Canaanite goddess, worshipped in idol form, and in Jewish tradition she is NOT a consort of YHWH, though an attempt may have been made to excuse the Jews’ worship of her by glossing over the sin with such a statement. > > There were many Canaanite or similarly non-Hebrew gods worshipped by Jews during dark periods in Jewish history. That’s esentially what the Old Testament is about for a large section starting in the book of Judges. > > All the calculations I just made were done in an effort to translate the Hebrew years to the calendar we use, taking into account the fact that there was never a year zero. I may have made a mistake, but I think that it’s all correct. All of the above is based on Jewish tradition and faith but very little of it is supported by archaeology or objective scholarly research. The OT is not a factual history of Israel. There was no conquest of Canaan by Joshua, for instance and the Torah did not exist in its current form until around the 8th century BCE. The archaeolgy of the area is pretty conclusive in showing that Judaism did not become strictly monotheistic until the reign of Josiah. The “history” in the Torah was backwritten to provide a unified narrative and identity for the Israelite people but the events described therein are by no means what actually happened. It’s essentially political and religious propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/16 "2004-05-06T01:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > the Torah did not exist in its current form until around the 8th century BCE. Oops. Make that 7th century- during the time of Josiah’s reforms and the “discovery” of the Book of Deuteronomy- a fabricated “lost book” of Moses. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/17 "2004-05-06T01:23:31Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m probably displaying my own ignorance, but:andThe OP is about ancient Hebrew dieties, but later posters seem to be talking about Judaism. I thought that the Hebrews were the people and Judaism the religion. And while the two groups had an extremely large overlap, there was not necessarily a complete correspondence. (The context here is ancient peoples and religions, not extant ones.) > > So, I interpret the original question as “What religions did non-Judaic Hebrews have?” As I recall, the worshippers of Yahweh came to be known as “Jews” from the tribe of Judah. After the death of Solomon, the northern kingdom of Israel (home to ten of the 12 tribes of Israel), with its capital at Samaria, broke away from the southern kingdom of Judah (home to the tribes of Judah and Benjamin), with its capital at Jerusalem. (Actually, there is some question as to whether there ever really **was** a united empire of Judah and Israel – see _The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts_ (Free Press, 2001), by two Israeli scholars, Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman; reviewed at [FindArticles.com | CBSi](http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1111/1822_304/83553507/print.jhtml.)) In 722 B.C. the Assyrians conquered Israel and deported its upper classes to what is now northern Syria; there they almost certainly merged with the local population, but there were a lot of legends and speculations about the “10 lost tribes of Israel” surviving in some remote place. (Those Yahweh-worshippers who remained in the old territory of Israel evolved into the Samaritans, a sect whom later Jews regarded as heretical). But a lot of Israelite priests fled south to Judah, where they probably inspired King Josiah to reform the Judahite religion – centralizing all worship in Jerusalem and shutting down all other centers of worship. The Assyrian Empire fell to the Babylonians in 612 B.C. In 597 B.C., the Babylonians conquered Judah and deported its ruling classes to the area around Babylon – but in that case they **survived** as a distinct cultural and religious group, probably because their exile lasted only 40 years. When the Persians, under Cyrus, conquered Babylon, the Judahites (and Benjaminites, one presumes) were allowed to go back to Jerusalem. They build a new state there they called “Yehudi,” which, transmitted through various languages, produced the English words “Jews” and “Judaism.” What we now think of as the Jewish religion had its beginnings in the reign of Josiah, and evolved under the pressure of the Babylonian exile, but we can’t really speak of “Judaism” until the period after the Judahites were allowed to return to Jerusalem. So you mean to ask, not “What religion did non-Judaic Hebrews have?” but “What religion did the \*\*pre-\*\*Judaic Hebrews have?” ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/18 "2004-05-06T01:26:08Z")
I see that **clairobscur** has posted several cites concerning the fact that Yahweh and El were two distinct gods, that preceded the “one and only” God of the Hebrews. [Here](http://www.biblicalheritage.org/God/el-goi.htm) is my contribution to that theory. > [@](#): > > \*\* So we see that the gods El and Yahweh are distinct gods from each other, as distinct as their individual names. Yahweh was worshipped as a war god from the deserts of southern Palestine who migrated north to Judah while El was the god of Israel whose home was Mesopotamia. Historically speaking, the two gods must be regarded as originally distinct that subsequently were related and finally identified through political and religious syncretism.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![FriendRob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecc23a/32.png) [@FriendRob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendRob)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/19 "2004-05-07T19:57:22Z")
I’ve been looking into this, too, and having a hard time finding good sources of info. I’m working my way through [Canaanite myth and Hebrew epic; essays in the history of the religion of Israel.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0674091760/qid=1083958214/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4482741-4562566?v=glance&s=books) ; it’s certainly scholarly, but it’s pretty hard going as it assumes a lot of prior knowledge. It’s also somewhat dated (1975). It seems fair to say that there are differences of opinion on how the Jewish religion developed from earlier stages. It’s pretty clear that it involved joining the worship of El to that of Yahweh. Exodus 6:2 > [@](#): > > God also spoke to Moses and said to him: "I am the Lord. I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as “El Shaddai”, but by my name “Yahweh” I did not make myself known to them. So the author of Exodus is explicitly claiming that the God formerly known as El Shaddai should now be called “Yahweh”. Acording to Cross, “Yahweh” comes from the verb _yahwe_, “to create”. It’s original form was probably _yahwe sabaoth_, “Creates-the Heavenly-Hosts”. This form evolved into “Yahweh Sabaoth”, “Lord of the Heavenly Hosts”, which is one form used often for God in the OT. The page that **Diogenes** linked has some errors. For instance, Asherah was the consort of El, not of Yahweh. The page **clairobscur** linked seems pretty accurate. At any rate, it is clear from the archeological evidence that El, El Elyon, and other forms used in the OT were members of the Canaanite pantheon from way back. A lot of evidence comes from the Ugaritic texts of Ras Shamra - some googling should turn up good stuff on them. Good hunting, and if you find any good references, let me know! ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626/20 "2004-05-07T20:07:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Of course it was a novel, but it was obviously **based** on scholarship and Graves was one heck of scholar. Check out _The White Goddess._ He wasn’t just making this stuff up Actually, current scholarship and understanding is that he was, in fact, just making all that stuff up. He had highly speculative theories that were extremely loosely based upon a limited number of facts as he knew them back then, but more modern research shows lots of evidence that he was completely off base on almost everything. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrew-gods/243626.md?page=2)