# Hebrews: Good or Evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300 "2008-05-06T15:13:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/101 "2008-05-07T11:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] As for the OP’s apparent anti-Semitism, I’d recommend that she find some more modern and interesting bigotry. Something in keeping with the nerdesque nature of this board, like a rant about how aliens are evil and should be killed, or a claim for the moral righteousness of enslaving robots. Much more fun to argue about than yet another claim about the Jewish conspiracy to rule the world or whatever. [/QUOTE] To that end, I submit [Rex Curry.](http://rexcurry.net/) Socialists in the USA originated the Nazi salute, robotic group-chanting to flags, Nazism, flag fetishism, and the modern “S” symbolism for “Socialism” in the swastika. Francis Bellamy was EEEEEVIL! Volkswagen emblems + tattoos: Are they the new swastika symbol? Stop the Gestapo-style use of Drug Dogs as liars for frame-ups in the War on Drugs. But the weirdest of all: Flag Fetishism. The proprietor of that site goes on and on about how “flag fetishism” is totally evil and sinister and an American Nazi conspiracy…and yet displays dozens of nude and explicit photos of women with American flags, with captions that seem fairly enthusiastic about the whole thing. **h ttp://rexcurry.net/fetishism-fetish-flag-sex-pornography.html** (NOT safe for work!) > [@](#): > > Because of government schools (socialist schools) and laws imposing that require the robotic chanting of the ritual, the flag became a popular fetish, so that today it is often displayed in churches, even though that was not the practice in the past, before Francis Bellamy. > > The flag fetish is imbued with so much power that it is considered sacred. Laws have been imposed upon the entire population to prevent flag “desecration.” The flag fetish is so extreme that a Constitutional amendment has been promoted to indulge the fantasies of flag fetishists. > > Flag fetishists enjoy a peculiar ambiguousness in their fantasy. For example, rubbing or wiping one’s backside with the flag can be (depending on the attitude of the person doing it) sexual fetishism, or desecration of the flag, or perhaps even both. Flag toilet paper is used in that form of flag fetishism. Soiling an actual flag with human waste is another example. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/102 "2008-05-07T11:26:55Z")
Naw, Rex Curry is too over the top to be much fun. I want The Beckster to come on back and expound on how evil the [del]Hebrews[/del] [del]Jews[/del] Zionists [del]were[/del] [del]are[/del] wereare. Then she can leave for good a few more times and find a board where people are tolerant of atheism and questioning authority. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/103 "2008-05-07T11:34:26Z")
What about David Icke, then? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/104 "2008-05-07T11:48:46Z")
In my experience, girls named Becky are usually hot. One taste of that all-beef Hebrew National sausage and she’ll be coming on back, for sure. Please, **Becky,** join us for a little get-together this Friday evening. Don’t forget to bring a sheet with a hole in it. We Jews know how to have a good time. That Maneschevitz wine really sneaks up on you - a few glasses and you’ll have that nice sensual wine buzz. Don’t let the sweetness fool you. And also, they don’t call it “Passover” for nothing. Let’s just say, it’s more than the plate of matzo that gets passed over. And you’re supposed to eat the meal while _reclining_ - in this case, horizontally. You ever wonder why Ron Jeremy got PAID to fuck about 90,000 women despite being hairy and fat? It’s the Jew juju, baby. We’re also not only the best lovers, but the best fighters. Yeah we may have gotten the shit end of the stick for a while, but that was all just character-building. Now we’ve got a little tiny country that clobbered the shit out of seven of its gigantic neighbors, invented some of the sweetest guns of all time, and has what many believe to be the best commandos and special forces teams in the world. The day of the dork are over - now it’s pump iron, smoke weed, kick ass and fuck like a madman. You’ll be happy with a Jew, that’s for sure. **Becky,** don’t be shy - give a Hebrew a try. You will not regret it. ---
**Author:** ![Walpurgis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Walpurgis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walpurgis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/105 "2008-05-07T12:18:10Z")
Brilliant, **Argent Towers**! I have a Jewsploitation montage running through my head to the sound of _bow-wow-chicka-bow-wow_. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/106 "2008-05-07T12:21:39Z")
Here’s a photo of [a typical Jewish male.](http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0806/IDF_soldier_and_KittyImage2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/107 "2008-05-07T12:29:07Z")
Not that I expect you to answer, dear **Becky01** , but I am curious on your take on the recent “Mental Floss” article discussing how Zionists in Germany in the early 1930’s collaborated with the Nazi party to encourage emigration out of the Reich and into Palestine? Lovely picture of Himmer as a younger man holding a Zionist movement flag. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/108 "2008-05-07T12:50:37Z")
Yay! Der Trihs is here! Take heart Becky, you’re no longer alone. You need to listen to what this man says, he not only hates Jews, he hates all religions, he can help you broaden your loathing to include almost everybody in the world but him! Pretty soon, you too will be glibly calling for the death of every American soldier and gleefully supporting genocide in Israel. Why, there is a whole wide future of insanity before you, assuming you are smart enough to embrace the master. Don’t miss this golden opportunity! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/109 "2008-05-07T13:25:06Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Here’s a photo of [a typical Jewish male.](http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0806/IDF_soldier_and_KittyImage2.jpg) [/QUOTE] Who’s that guy in the combat clothes that’s holding him? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/110 "2008-05-07T14:15:32Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Here’s a photo of [a typical Jewish male.](http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0806/IDF_soldier_and_KittyImage2.jpg) [/QUOTE] You know, the name George Micheals never really sounded Jewish to me before, but… ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/111 "2008-05-07T14:31:10Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Ummm. According to the Old Testament, God killed most of humanity. And cursed all of humanity with suffering for the crime of disobedience. And so on. The Greeks and Romans were nowhere near as bad; they didn’t have the power or the inclination. Even if you restrict judgement to the actions attributed to humans, behavior like killing everything but the virgin girls and taking them as sex slaves is something that the Romans or Greeks would have cheerfully done. If the Greeks/Romans were worse, it wasn’t by any huge margin. No doubt they did more damage, but they were also much more powerful. [QUOTE] Actually … if you are referring to the “flood” myth, you should be aware that Greek mythology had _exactly the same myth_: > **[Deucalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deucalion)** > > In Greek mythology, Deucalion (/djuːˈkeɪliən/; Greek: Δευκαλίων) was the son of Prometheus; ancient sources name his mother as Clymene, Hesione, or Pronoia. He is closely connected with the flood myth in Greek mythology. > According to folk etymology, Deucalion's name comes from δεῦκος, deukos, a variant of γλεῦκος, gleucos, i.e. "sweet new wine, must, sweetness" and from ἁλιεύς, haliéus, i.e. "sailor, seaman, fisher". His wife Pyrrha's name derives from the adjective πυρρός, -ά, -όν, pyrrhós, -á,... The Biblical “curse” is in the nature of a “just so” story (as in, “if God is so powerful, why do we have to work for a living”?). However, I’m referring particularly to the massacres in the Book of Judges, which are (1) mostly mythological; and (2) nowhere near as bad as (say) the _historical_ massacres committed by the Romans. Or, for example, Roman religious practices, which involved regular human sacrifice in large numbers (though these quickly became more entertainment than religion). Or Roman punishments - highly barbaric, such as the regular use of crucifiction. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/112 "2008-05-07T14:54:30Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Ummm. According to the Old Testament, God killed most of humanity. And cursed all of humanity with suffering for the crime of disobedience. And so on. The Greeks and Romans were nowhere near as bad; they didn’t have the power or the inclination. [/QUOTE] Just as a nitpick, the Greek gods wiped out most of humanity too. It’s part of the story of Deucalion, which tells how the gods destroyed the men of the Bronze Age. Zeus also destroyed the men of the Silver age before them because “they could not keep from wronging each other, nor did they serve the gods.” Also, after Zeus defeated Kronos, the earth rose up and covered the men of the Golden age, and they were all wiped out. The men of the Irona age will be destroyed by Zeus, too. As Carlos Parada puts it: > [@](#): > > For the father will not agree with his children, nor the children with their father, nor guest with his host, nor comrade with comrade, nor will brothers love each other as once they did. Men will dishonour their parents as they attain Old Age, without repaying them the cost of their nurture. Might shall be right, so that one man may sack another man’s city. There will be no merit for the man who keeps his word, or for the just, or for the good; rather, men will praise the evil-doer and admire his audacity and violent dealings. Strength will be right, and respect will vanish as an empty word. Peace being banished, the MUSES will depart; therefore they will lead a life in ugliness. The wicked will hurt the worthy, speaking false words against them; therefore will Envy walk along with them. The gods will forsake mortal men, letting bitter sorrows fall upon them; and being defenceless like children in the wilderness, they will not find any help against all evil they themselves created. We’re also told in Ovid’s Metamorphoses that, much like in the story of Sodom, Jupiter and Mercury destroyed a town because of its wickedness, sparing only Baucis and Philemon, the only two to give them hospitality when they came to the city in disguise. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/113 "2008-05-07T15:07:38Z")
So it’s agreed-gods suck. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/114 "2008-05-07T15:11:03Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] In my experience, girls named Becky are usually hot. One taste of that all-beef Hebrew National sausage and she’ll be coming on back, for sure. Please, **Becky,** join us for a little get-together this Friday evening. Don’t forget to bring a sheet with a hole in it. We Jews know how to have a good time. That Maneschevitz wine really sneaks up on you - a few glasses and you’ll have that nice sensual wine buzz. Don’t let the sweetness fool you. And also, they don’t call it “Passover” for nothing. Let’s just say, it’s more than the plate of matzo that gets passed over. And you’re supposed to eat the meal while _reclining_ - in this case, horizontally. You ever wonder why Ron Jeremy got PAID to fuck about 90,000 women despite being hairy and fat? It’s the Jew juju, baby. We’re also not only the best lovers, but the best fighters. Yeah we may have gotten the shit end of the stick for a while, but that was all just character-building. Now we’ve got a little tiny country that clobbered the shit out of seven of its gigantic neighbors, invented some of the sweetest guns of all time, and has what many believe to be the best commandos and special forces teams in the world. The day of the dork are over - now it’s pump iron, smoke weed, kick ass and fuck like a madman. You’ll be happy with a Jew, that’s for sure. **Becky,** don’t be shy - give a Hebrew a try. You will not regret it. [/QUOTE] Oh my. You make it sound really good…shame I’m already with someone. And of course that whole you being straight thing. (Don’t let the 01 fool you, Becks and I have nothing in common!) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/115 "2008-05-07T15:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Ummm. According to the Old Testament, God killed most of humanity. And cursed all of humanity with suffering for the crime of disobedience. And so on. The Greeks and Romans were nowhere near as bad; they didn’t have the power or the inclination. [/QUOTE] How about the story of Prometheus bringing fire to mankind, and Zeus punishing him with the daily liver-eating. > **[Prometheus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus)** > > In Greek mythology, Prometheus (/prəˈmiːθiəs/; Ancient Greek: Προμηθεύς \[promɛːtʰěu̯s\]) is a Titan responsible for creating or aiding humanity in its earliest days. He defied the Olympian gods by taking fire from them and giving it to humanity in the form of technology, knowledge and, more generally, civilization. > In some versions of the myth, Prometheus is also credited with the creation of humanity from clay. He is known for his intelligence and for being a champion of mankind and is also gene... And that follows up with Pandora’s box. That’s a curse for all of humanity, not for humanity’s sins but just because Zeus was pissed at Prometheus > **[Pandora](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora)** > > In Greek mythology, Pandora\[A\] was the first human woman, created by Hephaestus on the instructions of Zeus. As Hesiod related it, each god cooperated by giving her unique gifts. Her other name—inscribed against her figure on a white-ground kylix in the British Museum—is Anesidora.\[B\] > The Pandora myth is a kind of theodicy, addressing the question of why there is evil in the world, according to which, Pandora opened a jar (pithos; commonly referred to as "Pandora's box") releasing all the evils ... And finally, the global flood for punishment of the sins of humanity, with the only survivors Deucalion and his wife who survive by being warned to build a boat. > **[Deucalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deucalion)** > > In Greek mythology, Deucalion (Ancient Greek: Δευκαλίων; .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}pronounced /djuːˈkeɪliən/ or /djuːˈkæl-/, dyoo-KAY-lee-ən or doo-KAL-ee-on) was the son of Prometheus; ancient sources name his mother as Clymene, Hesione, or Pronoia. He is closely connected with a flood myth in Greek mythology. > The trans-Neptu... ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/116 "2008-05-07T15:46:31Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] So it’s agreed-gods suck. [/QUOTE] Only if you don’t worship them or are inhospitable when they show up in disguise. So, you know, stop doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/117 "2008-05-07T15:51:16Z")
That’s what I get for replying to Der Trih without reading the rest of the thread. Zeus always punishes hubris. Anyway, in modern times we somehow have the idea that Abrahamic religions are starkly different from older polytheistic religions. But a little bit of reading will show that you can find parallels to just about every Biblical story in other mythologies. Babies floating down the river and being found in the rushes, Gods dying and returning to life, floods, cities destroyed by fire, and on and on. And of course, this is because those Bible stories came from the same source, and the original ancient Israelite religion was henotheist polytheism. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/118 "2008-05-07T15:59:05Z")
[QUOTE=Becky01] I meant it to carry anti-zionism and you can do whatever you choose. I requested my thread be removed this afternoon as I want no part of a one-sided horse and pony show. I don’t care for your shit either! [/QUOTE] Is it better to read “one-sided horse and pony show” in the sense of “dog and pony show,” or rather “one-trick pony”? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/119 "2008-05-07T16:45:10Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] How about the story of Prometheus bringing fire to mankind, and Zeus punishing him with the daily liver-eating. > **[Prometheus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus)** > > In Greek mythology, Prometheus (/prəˈmiːθiəs/; Ancient Greek: Προμηθεύς \[promɛːtʰěu̯s\]) is a Titan responsible for creating or aiding humanity in its earliest days. He defied the Olympian gods by taking fire from them and giving it to humanity in the form of technology, knowledge and, more generally, civilization. > In some versions of the myth, Prometheus is also credited with the creation of humanity from clay. He is known for his intelligence and for being a champion of mankind and is also gene... And that follows up with Pandora’s box. That’s a curse for all of humanity, not for humanity’s sins but just because Zeus was pissed at Prometheus > **[Pandora](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora)** > > In Greek mythology, Pandora\[A\] was the first human woman, created by Hephaestus on the instructions of Zeus. As Hesiod related it, each god cooperated by giving her unique gifts. Her other name—inscribed against her figure on a white-ground kylix in the British Museum—is Anesidora.\[B\] > The Pandora myth is a kind of theodicy, addressing the question of why there is evil in the world, according to which, Pandora opened a jar (pithos; commonly referred to as "Pandora's box") releasing all the evils ... And finally, the global flood for punishment of the sins of humanity, with the only survivors Deucalion and his wife who survive by being warned to build a boat. > **[Deucalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deucalion)** > > In Greek mythology, Deucalion (Ancient Greek: Δευκαλίων; .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}pronounced /djuːˈkeɪliən/ or /djuːˈkæl-/, dyoo-KAY-lee-ən or doo-KAL-ee-on) was the son of Prometheus; ancient sources name his mother as Clymene, Hesione, or Pronoia. He is closely connected with a flood myth in Greek mythology. > The trans-Neptu... [/QUOTE] See, but the difference is, as mentioned above, NO ONE BELIEVES THIS STUFF ANYMORE. No one uses the stories in Greek mythology as a basis for their current religion or behavior. I think it’s funny that we are comparing a living religion (Judaism) with a long-dead one just to prove that the stories in Judaism aren’t that bad by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300/120 "2008-05-07T17:08:32Z")
[QUOTE=Polerius] I think it’s funny that we are comparing a living religion (Judaism) with a long-dead one just to prove that the stories in Judaism aren’t that bad by comparison. [/QUOTE] We’re comparing stories that were created by a group of people in a certain time frame to stories created by a different group of people in a similar time and place. What’s the alternative? The thing you seem to be missing is that no one believes the stuff in the bible anymore either. Oh, people say they do, and maybe even think they do. You’ll find Jews who say they’re “Torah-observant” and Christians who talk about how the bible is literally true, and that’s why evolution is a lie, or whatever. But Jews and Christians don’t really go around stoning people who commit adultery anymore, or taking over cities and slaughtering inhabitants because their God told them to. Values have changed since the texts were written. Modern Christians and Jews just read their current values back into the text, and when there’s something that doesn’t fit, will explain how “Oh, well, that’s not meant literally”, or “That’s something God used to want us to do, but later on he says this…”, or something else in that vein. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hebrews-good-or-evil/448300.md?page=7)