# Heckuva Job, Gen. Mikey! (Hayden, that is...) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2006, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306 "2006-05-11T01:36:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/21 "2006-05-12T17:02:04Z")
[QUOTE=UncleBeer] The average lefty favors enlarged and new government programs. That’s a _sine qua non_ of lefty-ism. Try not to be so thick. Maybe more like the meat in a deli sandwich than a filet cut. [/quote] _Size_ and _waste_ are not the same. Try not to be so thick. > [@](#): > > Fine. I was only following the suit led. Yeh, right. In what sense? In the sense that if one is to Pit someone else, self-righteousness is assumed? Cut the crap. > [@](#): > > I won’t disagree with you there. But at the risk of again being labeled at best apathetic, and at worst a Bush-defender, the government seems to me to be rife with fuck-ups. That be the nature of the spoils system that’s been in currency since the Jefferson administration. Pointing to the head and yelling at him ain’t gonna solve a problem that has a root cause lower down in the structure. Shorter **Unc** : it’s never any better or worse, no matter who’s in charge. What rot. I’ll just label you an ‘idiot’, and leave it at that. > [@](#): > > Not as effectively, or as efficiently, as I’d like. Guess the advantages of the free market over the command economy you’d justifiably ridicule aren’t that big after all, if Bush-level promoting of fuckups wouldn’t hurt a company that much. Which I think is BS, by the way. The sort of hiring decisions Bush has made aren’t the sort of thing many companies could survive. > [@](#): > > And even less so - apparently less so to the point of nullity - in the realm of politics. Dude. Politics doesn’t have boardrooms. The ‘board’ is ‘we, the people.’ > [@](#): > > That’s true enough. And kinda part of my point in that old thread. If the assholes managing and operating the procurement system at the lowest level don’t give enough of a shit to inform the guys up the line of the absurdities in it, then how’s the CEO, who’s even farther removed, supposed to know it doesn’t work as intended? More “it’s the system and the guys at the bottom that are responsible for everything, and management can’t do a thing about it.” The Secretary of Defense should be able to tell whether his procurement system is working or not, and if his people can’t at least give a broad outline of why it isn’t working, then they’re fucking idiots. And if the procurement system’s causing the government to lose billions just in the NSA, let alone the DoD weapons procurement side, then that’s big enough that the SecDef ought to be mentioning it to the President, no? Gawd, you’re dumb. > [@](#): > > > [@RT](#): > > > > What you’re saying is that the buck stops with the last guy who’s hands-on involved in decisions, which is a total crock. > > Horseshit again. I ain’t saying that at all, you stupid fucking asshole. Read **everything** ; not just what you wanna see. I specifically said the guys up the line (Bush in this case), are responsible for introducing a plan (again in this case to congress for their approval) which would prevent future fuck-ups of a similar nature. OK, you’re saying that Bush is helpless, _unless and until he can get a whole new procurement system through Congress that would miraculously fix everything_. Close enough. > [@](#): > > > [@RT](#): > > > > Giving Bush a free pass because he doesn’t make every last decision is bullshit. > > Which, **once a-_fucking_-gain** ain’t anything like what I’m saying. My entire point, which really is small enough to balance on your pointy little leftish head, is that we should properly lay blame for poor decision-making with the incompetent boobs who actually made the poor decisions. Just like I said: you’re saying the buck stops with the last guy who’s hands-on involved in decisions. > [@](#): > > In this case, you have a legitimate gripe about the promotion (assuming he gets past the consent of Congress, which if he does, will also become complicit) of Hayden. Darn tootin’, excepting the parenthetical, of course. Because while Congress isn’t a complete rubber stamp with respect to executive appointments, there’s a very strong predisposition that the executive should be allowed to pick his own team. Of the thousands of exectutive appointments since WWII that have had to pass Congressional muster, how many have been denied? Damned few. > [@](#): > > Your larger bitch, it seems apparent to me, is that you wanna fault Bush for the specific mismanagement and poor decisions made by Hayden. And those **cannot** be legitmately laid at Bush’s feet. This thread, AFAIAC, is _completely_ about Bush trying to put Hayden in charge of the CIA _after_ having established his impressive fuckup track record at NSA. If you want to argue my supposed ‘larger bitch’ with me, don’t bother. You’re arguing with something you read in between the lines of my OP, that wasn’t there at all. You’re getting pretty knee-jerk, you know? You just expect to find stuff in my posts, so you get riled about it, even though you’re the only one who can see it. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/22 "2006-05-12T17:23:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Size and waste are not the same. Try not to be so thick. Right. But when one advocates an increase in the size of something that’s inherently wasteful and incompetent - as government is by your own statement - then they’re advocating additional waste and incompetence. Try not to use such thin interpretations. > [@](#): > > Yeh, right. In what sense? In the sense that if one is to Pit someone else, self-righteousness is assumed? In the sense that your OP is about _fiscal_ mismanagement, you dipshit. By tossing CAGW into the mix, I was trying to show that I abhor the _fiscal_ idiocies of the governemnt. > [@](#): > > Shorter Unc: it’s never any better or worse, no matter who’s in charge. Still don’t get it do you? I’d think that the argument I’ve made repeatedly would have snagged on your pointy little head at least once by now. Guess not; it just keeps sailing cleanly over the damned thing. That argument being, that if you really wanna solve a problem, attack it at its root cause. The idiot left, such as yourself, are doing nothing more than tilting at windmills. > [@](#): > > This thread, AFAIAC, is completely about Bush trying to put Hayden in charge of the CIA after having established his impressive fuckup track record at NSA. As far as you can tell only because you wrote the damned thing. Seems to me if . . . Ah fuck it. You’re a total fucking useless pawn of your pointy-headed prejudices and to keep typing at you is even more fucking useless. Goodbye, dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/23 "2006-05-12T18:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=UncleBeer] Right. But when one advocates an increase in the size of something that’s inherently wasteful and incompetent - as government is by your own statement - then they’re advocating additional waste and incompetence. Try not to use such thin interpretations. [/quote] Oh really? And which statement would that be? I have a feeling I already know which two distinctly different but occasionally overlapping concepts you’ve confused, but I’d like to hear it from you. > [@](#): > > In the sense that your OP is about _fiscal_ mismanagement, you dipshit. By tossing CAGW into the mix, I was trying to show that I abhor the _fiscal_ idiocies of the governemnt. So any OP about fiscal mismanagement is ‘self-righteous’? You are _so_ losing it. > [@](#): > > > [@RT](#): > > > > > [@Unc](#): > > > > > > That be the nature of the spoils system that’s been in currency since the Jefferson administration. > > > > Shorter Unc: it’s never any better or worse, no matter who’s in charge. > > Still don’t get it do you? I’d think that the argument I’ve made repeatedly would have snagged on your pointy little head at least once by now. Guess not; it just keeps sailing cleanly over the damned thing. That argument being, that if you really wanna solve a problem, attack it at its root cause. The idiot left, such as yourself, are doing nothing more than tilting at windmills. You know, I’m all for attacking the root causes of problems. But saying nothing can be done _without_ dealing with root causes going back to Jefferson is something entirely different. And the evidence you’ve provided that that is so…well, you’ve really just asserted it. Meanwhile, FEMA went from a turkey farm under Bush the Elder, to a first-class outfit under Clinton, to an outfit so bad under Bush that people are saying it should just be junked. That belies your theory of executive helplessness in the face of Jefferson’s legacy and the bureaucrats. > [@](#): > > As far as you can tell ‘AFAIAC’ =/= ‘AFAICT’. > [@](#): > > Ah fuck it. You’re a total fucking useless pawn of your pointy-headed prejudices and to keep typing at you is even more fucking useless. Yeah. My ‘prejudice’ is the generally accepted belief that executives can and generally do make a big difference in the organizations they run. People with lefty prejudices like that shouldn’t be allowed to run free, let alone vote. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Goodbye, dipshit. I’d say ‘nice knowing you’ except for the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/24 "2006-05-12T18:52:38Z")
can’t you just feel the love? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/25 "2006-05-12T18:54:30Z")
what the fuck? I swear that I didn’t include an “italics” tag. why is my post italicized? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/26 "2006-05-12T18:58:39Z")
It isn’t italicized in my browser, **wring**. Maybe you just have your head tilted? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/27 "2006-05-12T19:00:47Z")
_This thread has been italicized by the Italicizer!_ ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/28 "2006-05-12T19:01:43Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] It isn’t italicized in my browser, **wring**. Maybe you just have your head tilted? 😉 [/QUOTE] huh. It’s still italicized to me. but not other threads. and not all of them in this thread are italicized. hey - wait a minute - maybe the NSA is reading this thread **right now!** ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/29 "2006-05-12T19:17:12Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] It isn’t italicized in my browser, **wring**. Maybe you just have your head tilted? 😉 [/QUOTE] And since italics are tilted to the right, your head must be tilted to the **left** for ordinary type to look like italics to you. Why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/30 "2006-05-12T19:19:54Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Why do you hate America? [/QUOTE] because they’re messin’ with my _mind_ man. (it started in post 19 in this thread only. I just tried italicizing the word “mind” in this post - now watch, just like the baby stops crying 10 seconds after you call the parents to come home, this one will be normal)\> ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/31 "2006-05-12T19:34:03Z")
[QUOTE=wring] huh. It’s still italicized to me. [/quote] You’re correct. It’s italicized. The whole fucking thread is left-leaning. It’s a goddamn conspiracy, I tell ya. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/32 "2006-05-12T19:36:07Z")
[QUOTE=UncleBeer] You’re correct. It’s italicized. The whole fucking thread is left-leaning. . [/QUOTE] actually it’s leaning to the right. I mean not left. not that it’s correct ya know. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/33 "2006-05-12T20:11:14Z")
[QUOTE=UncleBeer] You’re correct. It’s italicized. The whole fucking thread is left-leaning. It’s a goddamn conspiracy, I tell ya. [/QUOTE] Well, if you weren’t looking out at the text from _inside_ **wring** ’s computer, it wouldn’t look to you like it was leaning to the left! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/34 "2006-05-12T20:15:46Z")
[QUOTE=wring] actually it’s leaning to the right. I mean not left. not that it’s correct ya know. [/QUOTE] This independent mod has fixed it. In the future, though, I’ll happily accept bribes from both sides. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/35 "2006-05-12T20:16:45Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Well, if you weren’t looking out at the text from _inside_ **wring** ’s computer, it wouldn’t look to you like it was leaning to the left! 😉 [/QUOTE] > [@every horror movie every made](#): > > get out now!!! he’s already inside 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/36 "2006-05-12T20:19:37Z")
Aw, I decided not to fix it since the banter was too amusing 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/37 "2006-05-12T20:24:06Z")
Italics run amuck, unfinished quote tags… it was like a _challenge_. But if it helps any, I happily blame Bush and the mismanaged CIA. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/38 "2006-05-12T20:26:18Z")
[QUOTE=SkipMagic] But if it helps any, I happily blame Bush and the mismanaged CIA. [/QUOTE] works for me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/39 "2006-05-12T20:35:30Z")
[QUOTE=SkipMagic] Italics run amuck, unfinished quote tags… it was like a _challenge_. But if it helps any, I happily blame Bush and the mismanaged CIA. [/QUOTE] NSA. Try an’ keep up, eh? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306/40 "2006-05-12T20:40:51Z")
[QUOTE=UncleBeer] NSA. Try an’ keep up, eh? [/QUOTE] he is. he’s actually in the future, since we would assume that Hayden would continue his stellar performance in the CIA. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heckuva-job-gen-mikey-hayden-that-is/356306.md?page=3)