# Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415 "2018-11-12T17:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/241 "2018-12-17T18:08:44Z")
and she bought the idea of her being a safe choice so she did not bother to visit her “blue wall” states such as Wisconsin and Michigan which of course she lost . ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/242 "2018-12-20T17:24:48Z")
[The DNC announces info on the Democratic debates.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/422283-dnc-rolls-out-debate-reforms-ahead-of-2020) There’ll be six in 2019, starting in June, and six in 2020. They haven’t officially figured out the criteria who gets to be on the stage, but Tom Perez says it won’t just be based on poll numbers, as the RNC did it last time. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/243 "2018-12-21T03:50:26Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Beto is the best hope we have, I think, for a candidate that can make the Dems look like the party of the future. Might we, at some point, discuss the question of what Beto’s political stances are? I keep encountering articles that mention his skateboarding and guitar-playing, old DWI arrests and comments about womens’ boobs. But [this is the only](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/12/what-does-beto-orourke-actually-stand-for) article I’ve seen from a progressive source that actually tackles the question of what he’s done while in Congress and what stances he took while campaign for Senate, and they are not very impressed. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/244 "2018-12-21T12:26:34Z")
Beto O’Rourke is being called the “White Obama.” But there are some differences between the two men: - O’Rourke married the daughter of a billionaire called ‘El Paso’s richest man.’ - Obama married the daughter of a city pump worker. - O’Rourke’s mother was a wealthy El Paso businesswoman. - Obama’s mother earned a PhD and devoted her career to combating global poverty. - O’Rourke went to expensive private schools and finished with a B.A. degree in English Lit. - Obama earned a J.D. degree _magna cum laude_ and served as a law professor. Very similar. Especially key is that both surnames start with /O/; both have nicknames beginning with /B/. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > … But [this is the only](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/12/what-does-beto-orourke-actually-stand-for) article I’ve seen from a progressive source that actually tackles the question of what he’s done while in Congress and what stances he took while campaign for Senate, and they are not very impressed. Here are some excerpts from the article **ITR champion** linked to: (I hope I’ve pruned it enough to conform with copyright rules.) > [@](#): > > What kind of Democratic politician can be so adored? Maybe one who rarely, if ever, challenged the powerful. > > In his six years in Congress, O’Rourke passed three bills. … Between 1995 and 2007, when the Republicans solidly held the House of Representatives, the lawmaker who passed the most amendments was not a far-right Republican but instead Vermont’s independent democratic socialist Bernie Sanders, dubbed an ‘amendment king.’ > > … While the Democratic base is coalescing around single-payer health care and free college, O’Rourke sponsored neither House bill. If you’re not familiar with O’Rourke’s district, you might chalk this all up to representing a conservative region. It’s Texas, right? … But Texas’s 16th Congressional District is among the more liberal in the country. > > … We can learn a lot about why O’Rourke doesn’t challenge the powerful by looking at the one time he did, briefly… O’Rourke was one of eight Members of Congress to oppose the Iron Dome funding [free military aid for Israel], a group that was equally split along bipartisan lines… But that bravery did not last long. Pro-Israel activists, including one of O’Rourke’s top donors, denounced him in the local press… He enthusiastically voted for all future aid to Israel … … He didn’t even co-sponsor meager legislation introduced by a handful of progressive House Democrats that would bar aid to Israeli units who abuse children. > > … Obama’s upbringing included many trials of overcoming personal adversity, and his inspiring life story – told in two bestselling books – formed a major part of the case for his candidacy. O’Rourke’s nature as a privileged son-in-law may make him a far less sympathetic candidate. > > O’Rourke’s Senate candidacy was the ultimate psychological elephant. He was well-spoken, optimistic, good-looking, and he was quick to endorse cultural memes important to the national liberal base. His eloquent defense of kneeling NFL players was an instance of him diving headfirst into a symbolic culture war controversy, ticking off all the boxes contemporary liberals look for: embrace of diversity, condemnation of racism, and describing the sins of the nation. It’s wasn’t surprising that Ted Cruz quickly took O’Rourke’s position and used it to motivate his own base… > > Which perhaps is the best analogy for O’Rourke’s sudden popularity. He has ticked the right emotional boxes for liberals, and they feel like by supporting him they are projecting an image of a younger, more optimistic, and more progressive America. But nothing in O’Rourke’s short and uneventful political career suggests that he suddenly has the qualifications to oversee a nuclear arsenal, conduct diplomacy with friends and enemies, appoint the next head of the U.S. Treasury, or manage the disaster response of a national emergency. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/245 "2018-12-23T22:24:07Z")
So now, the Bernie-Bros, fesh after having elected Trump due to their relentless attacks upon Hillary, then too many voting 3rd party- now have their sights set on Beto:’ > **[Inside Bernie-world's war on Beto O'Rourke](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/inside-bernie-world-s-war-beto-o-rourke-n951016?fbclid=IwAR2dO4buSoY-Jy5n8XFshCBcvgGvwqeVKtIF5uJg9lLZJcTBBqS6W_rjgS0)** > > As the Texas congressman's star rises, Sanders supporters turn up the heat: "Reading Karl Marx is cool. Doing a livestream while you’re doing your laundry is a gimmick." _Forces loyal to Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders are waging an increasingly public war against Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke, the new darling of Democratic activists, as the two men weigh whether to seek the party’s presidential nomination in 2020…“A supporter of Bernie Sanders attacking a Democrat,” tweeted Neera Tanden, president of the Center for American Progress and a former aide to both Hillary Clinton and Obama. “This is seriously dangerous.”_ Honestly the bernie-bros couldn’t be better campaign workers for Trump if they had KGB badges. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/246 "2018-12-24T00:42:44Z")
Is there any evidence that any of these “Bernie bros” are actual fans of Sanders? Or that they’re even Americans? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/247 "2018-12-24T01:13:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is there any evidence that any of these “Bernie bros” are actual fans of Sanders? Or that they’re even Americans? \*Nomiki Konst, a progressive activist and 2016 Sanders supporter who is now running for public advocate in New York City,… It started with David Sirota, a liberal activist and journalist who worked for Sanders many years ago. \* David Sirota posted on Facebook that voting for Beto O’Rourke : "._…will mean death and pain for millions of people."_ > **[David Sirota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sirota)** > > David J. Sirota (born November 2, 1975) is an American journalist, columnist at The Guardian, editor for Jacobin, author, television writer, and screenwriter. He is also a political commentator and radio host based in Denver. He is a nationally syndicated newspaper columnist, political spokesperson, and blogger. In March 2019, he began working as the senior advisor and speechwriter on the Bernie Sanders 2020 presidential campaign. In 2022, he received an Academy Award nomination for Best Origi Si... > **[Democratic Socialist Nomiki Konst Announces Campaign for New York City Public...](https://theintercept.com/2018/09/26/nomiki-konst-new-york-city-public-advocate-election/)** > > The democratic socialist and former Bernie Sanders surrogate says being a political outsider makes her the best choice for the “watchdog” role. "_She gained a national profile as a Bernie Sanders surrogate during the 2016 campaign, and then as his representative on the Democratic National Committee’s Unity Reform Commission. "_ ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/248 "2018-12-31T14:48:13Z")
[Elizabeth Warren has formed exploratory committee ahead of a likely run.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/31/politics/elizabeth-warren-exploratory-committee-2020/index.html) Basically, she’s in. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/249 "2018-12-31T16:53:48Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > No one in this thread has mentioned [Andrew Yang](https://quillette.com/2018/10/06/a-new-kind-of-economy-an-interview-with-andrew-yang/) yet. Granted that his odds of getting the nomination are about equal to the chances that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers will win the Super Bowl, it would be to the Democrats’ benefit if he at least made the debates so that his ideas could get some air time. He is focused on the problem of job losses to technology and proposes a three-pronged solution: > > [ul] > [li]Universal health care.[/li][li]Universal basic income.[/li][li]“Digital Social Currencry”[/li][/ul] > > In the interview that I linked to, he explains the last one as follows: > > Digital social currency, in its simplest form, would be that the federal government goes into a particular region—let’s call it Mississippi—and then says, there are some social problems here, Mississippi, that we might be able to help address. Like, maybe child obesity…or educational outcomes… Then, the government comes in and says, organizations that are doing work in those areas, we’re now going to put the equivalent of the financial incentive in place for people and companies who help meet certain goals. And here’s how you can help measure their work and participation. > > So, if someone were to…spend lots of time tutoring kids—that might help with educational outcomes—then, if they document what they were doing, and there’s a local nonprofit that says, yes, they did tutor these kids for X hours, then they could get this social credit that they could then exchange for dollars if they chose. But there would be other ways for them to get rewarded that didn’t involve just running to the bank to cash [the social credits] in for dollars. You could use your social credits to get experiences or discounts at certain vendors or trade them with others. > > Then, let’s imagine that that’s successful and then over time that improves educational outcomes in Mississippi, then you put social credits to work for other various goals. And then, over time, you end up building a fairly robust set of opportunities for people. My personal favorite. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/250 "2019-01-03T15:20:55Z")
Martin O’Malley makes it official: [He’s not running in 2020. But interestingly, throws his support behind the still-undeclared Beto O’Rourke.](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/423660-omalley-says-he-wont-run-for-president-in-2020-backs-orourke) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/251 "2019-01-03T15:25:09Z")
Uh, Martin? Nobody cares. Just thought you ought to know. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/252 "2019-01-03T16:51:57Z")
> [@NetTrekker](#): > > My personal favorite. Re: Andrew Yang. He probably has no chance to win the election, but if he can draw attention to the issues he’s talking about, then that would be a victory for the progressive cause. I tend to think that too much of the focus is on Medicare-for-All and the Fight for $15, which isn’t to say I’m outright opposed to these measures, but I think they somewhat miss the bigger problems we’re facing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/253 "2019-01-03T16:57:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Uh, Martin? Nobody cares. Just thought you ought to know. I care, damn you! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/254 "2019-01-03T17:44:45Z")
I’m having a hard time seeing “Let’s pay people something that’s totally just money but I’m not going to call it that for some reason, to solve problems” as a serious policy suggestion. Well, yes, of course we’re going to pay people money to solve problems. If you’re not already taking that for granted, you need some remedial classes before you can run for office. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/255 "2019-01-03T17:58:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m having a hard time seeing “Let’s pay people something that’s totally just money but I’m not going to call it that for some reason, to solve problems” as a serious policy suggestion. Well, yes, of course we’re going to pay people money to solve problems. If you’re not already taking that for granted, you need some remedial classes before you can run for office. No kidding. Plus Universal Basic Income is an interesting concept that may be useful in the future but no way is it something that should be part of a major party’s political agenda at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/256 "2019-01-03T18:22:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So now, the Bernie-Bros, fesh after having elected Trump due to their relentless attacks upon Hillary, then too many voting 3rd party- now have their sights set on Beto:’ > > [Inside Bernie-world's war on Beto O'Rourke](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/inside-bernie-world-s-war-beto-o-rourke-n951016?fbclid=IwAR2dO4buSoY-Jy5n8XFshCBcvgGvwqeVKtIF5uJg9lLZJcTBBqS6W_rjgS0) > _Forces loyal to Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders are waging an increasingly public war against Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke, the new darling of Democratic activists, as the two men weigh whether to seek the party’s presidential nomination in 2020…“A supporter of Bernie Sanders attacking a Democrat,” tweeted Neera Tanden, president of the Center for American Progress and a former aide to both Hillary Clinton and Obama. “This is seriously dangerous.”_ > > Honestly the bernie-bros couldn’t be better campaign workers for Trump if they had KGB badges. So…supporters of one candidate are being critical of another candidate? Horrors! And I know you’ve been told this over and over and over again, and insist on continuing to repeat falsehoods, but one more time: About 90% of Sanders voters supported Clinton in the general election, which is exactly in line with what supporters of the primary loser usually do. Sanders himself endorsed Clinton and campaigned actively for her throughout the general election campaign. The number of voters supporting Jill Stein was just about exactly the same as it had been in 2012, so clearly Bernie’s campaign didn’t help her. In short, there is no reason whatsoever to blame the 2016 election loss on Sanders or his supporters. If you voted for Hillary in the primary and want someone to blame for Trump, look in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/257 "2019-01-03T19:53:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m having a hard time seeing “Let’s pay people something that’s totally just money but I’m not going to call it that for some reason, to solve problems” as a serious policy suggestion. Well, yes, of course we’re going to pay people money to solve problems. If you’re not already taking that for granted, you need some remedial classes before you can run for office. I don’t know whether Yang takes himself seriously, but Bernie Sanders demonstrated the value of campaigning on crazy ideas that may not be that crazy after all. I can’t speak for Yang, but based on the limited amount about him that I’ve read, he seems to be a brainstorm candidate. The price of intellectual energy is that some ideas end up being not so practical, but it’s good that someone is bringing attention to the challenges of a displaced workforce and talking about what solutions to this problem might look like. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/258 "2019-01-03T20:14:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No kidding. Plus Universal Basic Income is an interesting concept that may be useful in the future but no way is it something that should be part of a major party’s political agenda at the moment. I don’t see it as part of the party’s platform currently; he’s simply putting it out there in the marketplace of ideas, which isn’t really a problem, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/259 "2019-01-03T20:17:34Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So…supporters of one candidate are being critical of another candidate? Horrors! > > And I know you’ve been told this over and over and over again, and insist on continuing to repeat falsehoods, but one more time: > > About 90% of Sanders voters supported Clinton in the general election, which is exactly in line with what supporters of the primary loser usually do. Sanders himself endorsed Clinton and campaigned actively for her throughout the general election campaign. The number of voters supporting Jill Stein was just about exactly the same as it had been in 2012, so clearly Bernie’s campaign didn’t help her. > > In short, there is no reason whatsoever to blame the 2016 election loss on Sanders or his supporters. If you voted for Hillary in the primary and want someone to blame for Trump, look in the mirror. They shouldnt be, if they are in the same party. Look, talk up your candidate all you want. Compare him to others, even. But dont make up lies and shit just to ruin a fellow dems chances. Yes, Sanders did. But he didnt call off his dogs. And he didnt concede until well after the decision was mathematically over. Indeed there is- Bernie bros continued to spread GOP and Kremlin Fake news about Hillary, even after Sanders endorsed her. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/260 "2019-01-03T20:29:10Z")
Sanders didn’t have the ability to call off Putin’s dogs. And **asahi** , I can appreciate a good crazy idea. Suggesting a crazy idea might not actually get it implemented, but it can still get people thinking in different ways, and maybe coming up with variants that aren’t so crazy and which actually can get implemented, and maybe you even eventually end up with something very much like the crazy idea in place. But “let’s pay people money to solve problems” isn’t a crazy idea. It’d the exact opposite of a crazy idea. It’s an idea that’s so sane that everyone, in both parties even, already does it. Suggesting it doesn’t make any progress; it just brands you as being completely clueless about how the world already works. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=14)