# Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415 "2018-11-12T17:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 143
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2841 "2019-12-04T16:45:58Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Plus, a week or so ago, he mentioned in an interview that Sally Yates was on his radar for veep, which gives me optimism. I’ve been a fan of hers for running mate for a few months now, and to hear him articulate what I’ve been thinking about gives me hope that he’s thinking along the same lines I am. I can definitely vote for him, old age and sloppy tongue and all. Biden-Yates would be my dream ticket as of now. :smack: This would be exactly the kind of VP blunder that Hillary made in 2016, and so of course it’s something Biden would do. There’s nothing whatsoever strategic about choosing Yates. She doesn’t make up for any of Biden’s weaknesses. She’s a DC insider. She’s white. At 59 years old she is still “old” to younger voters. She looks like the ultimate “Karen”. About the only thing she adds to the ticket is being a woman. And, just like Tim Kaine, if Biden runs with her and loses, 5 years from now nobody will remember who his running mate was. Sometimes I wonder if I’m living in the same universe as the other people following this election. Have we learned nothing from the past? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2842 "2019-12-04T17:49:40Z")
Sally Yates: She’s from Georgia (strategic southern purple-ish state), she’s a career civil servant who ran the day-to-day of the DoJ (experienced at managing a federal department, ready to step in should the old man keel over at some point), she’s not a “career politician” (which, for better or worse, carries a stigma with some voters), she was fired for standing up to Trump’s illegal executive order which won the hearts of the early Resistance. And who exactly are your “younger” voters flocking to? Bernie. The dude’s older than Biden. They’re not flocking to Mayor Pete or Booker or Klobuchar or any of the other younger candidates. A candidate’s age is no indication of whom younger voters will vote for. Regardless, I want to win over the blue collar Industrial Midwestern voters that either sat out or voted Trump in 2016 and rock-steady older voters. That’s my justification for Biden and Yates. Imo, we \*have \*learned from the past, and that’s why Democratic/anti-Trump voters are actually showing up for elections since 2016 and not just assuming their vote isn’t necessary any more. My take: Voters have seen what a “deviant” candidate has looked like over the past three years (and by deviant, I mean outside the mainstream/center). If the economy’s still humming in November 2020, I’d much rather have a more “normal” centrist ticket, like Biden-Yates, go up against Trump than something deviating from the norm (like Bernie or Mayor Pete or Warren or Stacy Abrams or Yang or whatever). Bad economy, deviant president: Any Dem will likely win. Good economy, deviant president, “deviant” Dem candidate: Trump will likely win, as people will vote for the devil that has “given” them a strong economy. Good economy, deviant president, “normal” Dem candidate: Dem has a better chance of winning as people might just vote for a return to normalcy, good economic numbers be damned. And I’m not sure why you’re slapping your head at me. Did a fly land there? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2843 "2019-12-05T19:42:28Z")
For those who laugh at the SDMB being a target for Russian trolls, last nite one hit us, spreading a fake news story in three forums. Interesting thing about the story- that a Ex-US Diplomat to Ukraine had been found dead- wasnt that story, it was the comments- where the made up comments were blaming the Clintons for murdering her, as if of course Hillary was a master Ninja. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2844 "2019-12-05T23:25:47Z")
Well I guess today was the pilot of a new show: Joe and the Fatman. Was that Ken Bone's brother, Ben Bone? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2845 "2019-12-06T09:14:55Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > If the nominee had to be someone in the more moderate side of the party, I’d much rather have Klobuchar than either Biden or Buttigieg. > > I think the latter two would both get rolled by the Republicans as President (if they won), the former because his mind’s still back when TipnRonnie could sit down and come to an agreement, and the latter because he really doesn’t know shit. The vibe I get from Klobuchar is that she’s not easily rolled. This is one case where I think we should acknowledge that Joe Biden knows his fellow Senators better than the media and we do. Biden had a lot of success negotiating with McConnell when he was allowed to by his boss. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2846 "2019-12-06T09:16:56Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Well I guess today was the pilot of a new show: Joe and the Fatman. > > Was that Ken Bone's brother, Ben Bone? Joe found his inner Trump. He does need to just reconcile himself with the truth that Hunter is a very troubled boy who isn’t above using his father’s name to make a living. Joe shouldn’t feel bad, George HW Bush had four kids like that. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2847 "2019-12-06T16:36:31Z")
Does the Sanders campaign even bother to vet staff hires? > > > Trinity Votes 🇺🇦 @TrinityMustache ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2848 "2019-12-07T01:16:51Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > Does the Sanders campaign even bother to vet staff hires? > > [https://twitter.com/TrinityMustache/status/1202785031682314240](https://twitter.com/TrinityMustache/status/1202785031682314240) I disagree that it’s somehow ‘not accidental’ – I think Bernie’s a decent guy. But because he flirts with conspiracy theories and goes full-on populist, he attracts the occasional idiot chauvinist who puts up a ‘progressive’ facade but doesn’t recognize his own ‘bro-ness’ But yeah, the criticism of not doing background checks speaks to administrative weaknesses that are getting exposed. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2849 "2019-12-07T01:34:04Z")
I don’t know how old that guy is, but I was saying shit like that in high school. I probably would have been stupid enough to say it on Twitter if Twitter had existed at the time. There’s a pretty big difference between someone who’s 18 and someone who’s 27. There’s a difference between immature trash-talking and serious bigotry. That’s not really the point though, I understand, it’s that nobody checked to see if shit like this was on his public online footprint before he was hired. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2850 "2019-12-07T17:32:01Z")
Interesting article here: Why the US Left has failed black voters > [@](#): > > The problem is that the Democratic electorate isn’t nearly as close to Sanders and Warren ideologically as some pundits would have you believe. Although Sanders essentially tied with Hillary Clinton with white voters, he lost black voters nationally by 50 points, which went a long way towards her winning the nomination. The candidate favored by black voters has won the Democratic primary in each contest going back to 1992. Black voters have an outsized influence on the primary process because of their concentration in the south, and because of their propensity to vote as a bloc. The south is a delegate rich region where white voters have abandoned the Democratic Party — meaning the primary electorate of many of these states is plurality or majority black. > > Black voters are also the most consistent Democrats in the general election, voting for Democratic presidents at a rate close to 90%. Failing to win over black voters can end your presidential campaign before it begins. So why does the left have so much trouble with this demographic? > > To understand the current problems of the left, you have to know a bit of political history. Moderate and conservative whites have gradually left the Democratic Party since the mid-1960s in a party sorting process that is still ongoing. This phenomenon has its roots in the successes of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, when Democrats officially became the party of minority rights. This sorting process was especially intense early on in the southern states, but it has since spread throughout the county. The result has been that the whites who have remained in the Democratic Party are generally further to the left of the political spectrum. > > The white voters who have remained in the Democratic Party on average tend to be better educated and less religious than both the white voters who fled for the GOP and the black rank and file Democrats who never left. White Democrats are further left ideologically than their black counterparts on a range of issues. > > White voters in the Democratic Party are more likely to favor open immigration policies and take leftward stances on gender and sexuality. They are also more likely to have an ideological commitment to free college or free healthcare. Almost 80% of black Americans are Christian, and nearly half say they attend religious services once a week. This is a major divide from white liberals, of whom Frank Newport estimates only 4% are both ideologically liberal and highly religious. > > Moreover, black voters tend to choose candidates that have worked hard to build a relationship with their community over time. Because of the unique history of black Americans, earning the trust of this community is not an overnight affair. Going back 30 years, nominees such as Barack Obama and the Clintons had deep ties to the black community before even deciding to run for president. > > This is in stark contrast to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, candidates favored by the white left that have struggled mightily to pick up black support. Neither Sanders nor Warren spent much time building relationships with black voters prior to deciding to run for President. And they are not alone on the left in this regard. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was largely unable to move black voters in her direction during her primary; her strength was mostly with college educated whites. Trying to attract black voters after the fact is extremely difficult. > > One of the left’s biggest problems with black voters is their rhetorical focus on class. The left’s primary objective is to take on the billionaires and corporate elite. The class-first narrative posits that members of the working class have a common enemy — the wealthy. > > This argument doesn’t fit with the lived experience of many black Americans, who have endured racism at the hands of poor and wealthy whites alike. For instance, there is a long history of racism in unions. This isn’t the wealthy using schemes to divide the poor along racial lines either; a sizable percentage of whites regardless of class have come to hold these views on their own. > **[Opinion | Why The Left Has Failed With Black Voters](https://forward.com/opinion/435826/why-the-left-has-failed-with-black-voters/)** > > The differences between white and black Democrats are deeply rooted in history. It matches why Biden has such a lead with black voters. The older ones back him. From his days as a senator he built up a relationship with them. He is fondly perceived by the black community and black public officials in Delaware even if they didn’t always see eye to eye on an issue…because he was always there to hear them out. He met with community leaders, preachers, activists, groups. He invited them to address their grievences and worked with them. In fact he is remembered fondly for being the only white lifeguard at a segregated swimming pool as a college student. It’s also why after he made those stupid comments at a fundraiser of being civil to people like James Eastland, a lot of the older black public officials in Congress or Delaware – while disapproving of the comment – didn’t turn on him and in fact gave him a defence. Because they’ve known him for decades. Some of them don’t support him for president, but they like the guy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2851 "2019-12-08T03:45:07Z")
Yep, with black voters it seems to be about relationships, not ideology. And just as you can’t build a relationship with black voters just by going out on the trail and pandering to them(Liz!), you also can’t destroy a long term relationship overnight either. Black voters are sticking with Joe and that’s not likely to change. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2852 "2019-12-08T03:57:31Z")
I still don’t like Biden much, but I like this ad of his: [https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/12/05/biden-campaign-ad-world-leaders-nato-trump-ana-navarro-ctn-vpx.cnn](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/12/05/biden-campaign-ad-world-leaders-nato-trump-ana-navarro-ctn-vpx.cnn) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2853 "2019-12-08T15:05:37Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > It matches why Biden has such a lead with black voters. The older ones back him. From his days as a senator he built up a relationship with them. Or it could be, perhaps, just perhaps, the same reason older whites support him. Some things really aren’t that deep and this is one of those things. My dad (70 something black man) is a Biden supporter. I promise you that nothing special distinguishes his feelings toward him from your average 70 something white man who favors Biden. They like him because he’s familiar and establishment-backed, which makes him safe and relatable to people who don’t want too many boats rocked. My dad is socially conservative…[that is common among black folk](https://news.gallup.com/poll/112807/blacks-conservative-republicans-some-moral-issues.aspx), especially the AARP demographic. If you ask what young black people think of him, lo and behold you’ll find them saying the same thing younger whites say about him. I’d argue the reason older blacks are less likely to break for Sanders and Warren is that these candidates are more progressive than Biden…and remember?[Blacks are more socially conservative than whites.](Blacks are more socially conservative than whites.) Their support for the moderate candidate shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone except people who are ignorant to the strong strain of traditionalism that courses through the Bill Cosby generation. It’s annoying me that Biden (and Biden supporters) is trying so hard to pass himself off as the “some of my best friends are black” candidate. I mentioned my Biden-supporting conservative Dad, but let me tell you about the community activist whom is my mother. She too is an older black person but she is as progressive as they come, and she will not be voting for Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2854 "2019-12-08T15:08:33Z")
I don’t understand the appeal of Biden at all. Do people think he’s Obama version 2? Do people think he can beat Trump? It’s nice to have experience but he basically spent almost his entire adult life in DC which to me is not a positive. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2855 "2019-12-08T15:25:50Z")
I’m disappointed that no one here is discussing that ugly scene in Iowa that Biden mangled, IMO. If this is what we can expect whenever someone brings up Hunter and the Ukraine shit, I swear I will not be able to handle watching the news anymore. Might need to throw out my TV and cancel internet service. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2856 "2019-12-08T16:16:56Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I don’t understand the appeal of Biden at all. Do people think he’s Obama version 2? Do people think he can beat Trump? It’s nice to have experience but he basically spent almost his entire adult life in DC which to me is not a positive. They think they know how to quantify Biden. He’s not a revolutionary; he’ll deliver moderate reforms, and even if that’s about half of what we want on our progressive wish list, it’s miles ahead of where we are going now. We’re racing backwards with Trump. The revolution can come later. Let’s just get a Democrat in office first. I think that’s what voters are thinking. Besides that, he’s up against a field of people who have narrow appeal (Sanders and Warren) or who simply haven’t established name-brand recognition (Buttigieg and Klobuchar). It’s a relatively easy field to beat. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2857 "2019-12-08T17:30:10Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They think they know how to quantify Biden. He’s not a revolutionary; he’ll deliver moderate reforms, and even if that’s about half of what we want on our progressive wish list, it’s miles ahead of where we are going now. We’re racing backwards with Trump. The revolution can come later. Let’s just get a Democrat in office first. I think that’s what voters are thinking. > > Besides that, he’s up against a field of people who have narrow appeal (Sanders and Warren) or who simply haven’t established name-brand recognition (Buttigieg and Klobuchar). It’s a relatively easy field to beat. I agree with this. The economic and political situations are much too fragile for a rash of expensive progressive programs right now. (And anyway, they’re not happening in 2021 even in the unlikely event that the Ds get 50 Senators.) I was hoping Booker, Harris, Klobuchar, Inslee, Castro or even Hickenlooper would take off, but I guess charismatic stars only come along once a generation or so. (Sanders or Warren may be charismatic, but are too radical to win the general. Other front-runners — Buttigieg, Bloomberg, Yang — also have little chance against Trump in my opinion.) Hillary’s e-mails were the dominant issue in the 2016 campaign. Biden’s Ukraine “corruption” will be the dominant issue in the 2020 general campaign. I hope Joe finds a good way to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2858 "2019-12-08T18:07:52Z")
Biden’s authentic, he’s a straight talker, we know what he believes, we know what kind of guy he is. He hasn’t been a chameleon throughout his career, just shifting with the political winds, being all things to all people. The public is tired of politicians and Biden’s like John McCain in that he developed a reputation over the years for not being a bullshitter or strategy-obsessed guy. He just chose his specializations as Senator(finance, judiciary, foreign policy), and worked hard for decades on those issues. I won’t say he’s the most qualified man to ever run for office, but I will say that there has never been a candidate easier to assess by the public. Some people that have been around longer, the public still isn’t sure who they are or what they believe. That was one of the problems Hillary had. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2859 "2019-12-08T18:11:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I agree with this. The economic and political situations are much too fragile for a rash of expensive progressive programs right now. (And anyway, they’re not happening in 2021 even in the unlikely event that the Ds get 50 Senators.) > > I was hoping Booker, Harris, Klobuchar, Inslee, Castro or even Hickenlooper would take off, but I guess charismatic stars only come along once a generation or so. (Sanders or Warren may be charismatic, but are too radical to win the general. Other front-runners — Buttigieg, Bloomberg, Yang — also have little chance against Trump in my opinion.) > > Hillary’s e-mails were the dominant issue in the 2016 campaign. Biden’s Ukraine “corruption” will be the dominant issue in the 2020 general campaign. I hope Joe finds a good way to deal with it. If that’s the best they have, it won’t be much. However significant or insignificant you feel her emails were, it was a choice SHE made. Biden’s problem is more like a Billy Carter problem: he has an errant family member who is going to cause him headaches, but I don’t think the public is going to hold Hunter’s dumb ass against him. Biden had a squeaky clean history before Hunter decided to try to make a living off the family name. Even Joe himself didn’t use his name to make money until the last few years. The dude lived off his salary for decades. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/2860 "2019-12-08T18:21:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Biden’s authentic, he’s a straight talker, we know what he believes, we know what kind of guy he is. Sounds exactly like the bullshit that Trump supporters say. I want off this ride. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=142) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=144)