# Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415 "2018-11-12T17:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 154
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3061 "2020-01-11T00:16:25Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Do you think it is generally “dirty pool” to criticize politicians for doing things that are popular with their constituents? … I used ‘dirty pool’ with reference to the attempt to use ‘legislate according to the wishes of constituents’ as proof of bad character. And, yes, I would draw a distinction between pleasing constituents by supporting industries that employ many of them, and pleasing constituents by rubber-stamping everything a lawless President does. In the latter case, it would be fair to bring up such legislative activity as ‘proof of bad character’. In the former, you have a tougher case for fairness. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > …Not at all. The way ‘centrism’ has been defined for awhile now on the Dem side of the aisle is: liberal on social issues, but corporate-friendly on economic issues. While I certainly believe this is a malign force in our politics, it’s also unfortunately a very normal one, and it’s glossed over so well in the mainstream press that it took me many years to recognize it for what it is. I partially agree with you on that one. The ‘please the corporations while making gains in social justice’ strategy has resulted in some _actual gains in social justice_. I applaud those. It’s quite possible they could not have been achieved by a fire-breathing leftist approach. But, yes, the quest to please the upper 0.01% went too far in the Clinton and Obama years. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > … If he felt he was being true enough to his ideals while representing MBNA et al. as much as he was, then that’s fine for him, but the rest of us should take into account that that’s who he is. … If you want to make the case that “that’s who he is,” then you need to explain why Biden didn’t spend the eight years as Vice President working full-tilt to grind down the financially-struggling. A Vice President may not have the powers to issue Executive Orders or to introduce legislation, but he or she _does_ have the power conferred by a very prominent soap box. Namely, a VP can give speeches, call for commissions and hearings, and generally communicate any platform he or she finds to be important. Did Biden spend those years trying to convince the nation that those with financial problems shouldn’t have the option of bankruptcy? Did he spend _any part_ of those years doing so? If not, why not? Is it possible that your attempt to smear him in this way—by putting forth the idea that screwing over struggling people was a passion project for Biden—is simply unjust and unjustified? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3062 "2020-01-11T00:58:55Z")
You know, a quick Google reminds me that over 200 000 children under the age of 5 died from malaria in 2017. Maybe there is a funnier billionaire indulgence to joke about in your next free money happy dance. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3063 "2020-01-11T01:53:28Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m reading that Ojeda is anti-abortion, which might be fine for a local race, but I think that’s going to be a non-starter on a National level for the Dems. An interesting guy. I’m a conservative but if the Dems win with him I think I’d still be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3064 "2020-01-11T01:58:21Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > Wealth inequality is one of Steyer’s plus points as a candidate. That and climate change are the two subjects he’s driven on. For wealth inequality Steyer being a billionaire gives him that unique edge whether you like it or not. > > He is positioning himself as someone who has the best position to debate the economy against Trump and beat him on it because he’s been a job creator and wealth creator. Those fancy buzzwords corporate America loves applies to him. Therefore the republican tactic of focusing on corporate America doing well reflecting the rest of America is nullified. Trump will talk about how unemployment is very low, the stock market is doing great, consumer confidence is high etc. But Steyer can talk about the numbers behind those numbers: how the pockets of the 1%, of which he belongs to, benefits from this economy. But the average worker is having to live paycheck to paycheck, the middle class is not expanding, many people are holding multiple jobs to make ends meet, young people not having a foot on the career ladder leading to the housing ladder etc. He can speak about it from the point of view of it being a democratic party and liberal talking point but also that he has the experience of seeing it first-hand. Thanks. All good points. But what is his plan to combat it? As you say, most people are agreed that it exists. Now, what to do about it. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3065 "2020-01-11T02:21:08Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Thanks. All good points. But what is his plan to combat it? As you say, most people are agreed that it exists. Now, what to do about it. [https://www.tomsteyer.com/economic-agenda/](https://www.tomsteyer.com/economic-agenda/) > [@](#): > > Pass a federal $15/hr minimum wage and expand the earned income tax credit and retirement security programs. > > Guarantee that Americans have five new constitutional rights — the right to healthcare, clean air and water, a livable wage, an equal vote, and a quality education. Government must work in partnership with all sectors of the economy to advance policies and programs that effectively, equitably, and efficiently deliver services that promote upward mobility and provide economic opportunity. > > Make our federal tax system more equitable. I will enact policies that ensure that all corporations and all income classes will pay their fair share. I will repeal the Trump tax cuts and institute a wealth tax — 1% on those whose net worth is above $32 million — that will generate over $1 trillion for healthcare, education, environmental, and criminal justice programs. It will not continue to provide favorable treatment to the rich and powerful at the expense of low-income and middle-class Americans, nor will it starve the government of the resources needed to deliver services. > > Allocate increased resources to public schools and social service programs, address systemic gender and racial wealth disparities, and invest in a multi-year effort to rebuild America’s infrastructure (e.g. bridges, affordable housing, roads, ports, broadband networks, airports, etc) that will expand business opportunities, generate good paying jobs, and lead us to a renewable future. > > Provide a healthcare system that covers more Americans at a lower cost. I will repeal Trump’s rollbacks to the Affordable Care Act, enact a strong public option, and institute insurance industry rate review. I will allow Medicare to negotiate prescription drug costs and eliminate pay-for-delay contracts to lower the cost of prescription drugs. > > Make major investments in higher education,worker training and apprenticeship programs to produce a highly trained, skilled, and educated workforce and meet the technological needs of our changing economy. > > Reduce the burden of student loan debt by guaranteeing two years of free college, refinancing student loans at lower interest rates, passing a Student Borrowers Bill of Rights, and forgiving the student loan debt of teachers and other public servants who have dedicated their time and energy to building our communities. He supports congressional term limits and wants to repeal Citizens United to stop big money influence in DC. All democrats support the latter but I think he’s on his own for term limits. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3066 "2020-01-11T03:14:39Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > [https://www.tomsteyer.com/economic-agenda/](https://www.tomsteyer.com/economic-agenda/) Thanks! I somehow missed all of that, even having looked around the website. To me, his policies look like a scaled down version of the other candidates. His wealth tax is not as high as Elizabeth Warren. His school loan forgiveness is not as expansive as anyone’s. Even his ACA policy is not as expansive as Biden’s. He doesn’t specify any amount to his earned income tax credit, so it’s hard to know how expansive that would be. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3067 "2020-01-11T03:31:57Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > [https://www.tomsteyer.com/economic-agenda/](https://www.tomsteyer.com/economic-agenda/) > > He supports congressional term limits and wants to repeal Citizens United to stop big money influence in DC. All democrats support the latter but I think he’s on his own for term limits. Term limits dont do _shit_. We have had them in CA for quite a while, and they do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3068 "2020-01-11T04:02:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Term limits dont do _shit_. We have had them in CA for quite a while, and they do nothing. I daresay they’ve absolutely \*wrecked \*the political system in Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3069 "2020-01-11T10:19:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You know, a quick Google reminds me that over 200 000 children under the age of 5 died from malaria in 2017. Maybe there is a funnier billionaire indulgence to joke about in your next free money happy dance. Presumably this was aimed at me. If my remark seemed to disparage Bill Gates, it was through poor word choice. I have applauded Gates’ efforts right here on this Board. I don’t have the mental aggravation of deciding how best to use my billions to benefit the world! It must be a real challenge to guess what charitable works will have the _leverage_ to benefit humanity the most. But it’s no exaggeration to say the value of removing Trump from the White House can be measured in the Trillions of dollars. _With a T._ For starters, the lives lost a few days ago in a plane-shootdown should be attributed to the oaf who stirred up the hornet’s-nest. (Of course, even at a million dollars per soul, that shoot-down is a pittance toward a Trillions-dollar total. Start a new thread if you think my figure is too high. _ **Or just Google “cost of climate change.”** _) Will Bloomberg’s humanitarian effort affect the outcome in November 2020? Probably not. But if there’s even a 1% chance it will, it will be one of the most splendid and profitable charitable donations ever. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3070 "2020-01-11T13:21:01Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > An interesting guy. I’m a conservative but if the Dems win with him I think I’d still be happy. He quit the race almost a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3071 "2020-01-11T14:55:49Z")
If Steyer is smart he will serve NC BBQ and sweet iced tea today. If I go I will let you know what he says and what the food is. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3072 "2020-01-11T21:44:27Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I used ‘dirty pool’ with reference to the attempt to use ‘legislate according to the wishes of constituents’ as proof of bad character. And, yes, I would draw a distinction between pleasing constituents by supporting industries that employ many of them, and pleasing constituents by rubber-stamping everything a lawless President does. In the latter case, it would be fair to bring up such legislative activity as ‘proof of bad character’. In the former, you have a tougher case for fairness. Most of the time, you can help your constituents in ways where the worst pain that others’ non-rich constituents might feel is slightly higher taxes. **Biden helped them in ways that ruined many thousands of people’s lives, and continues to do so.** Big difference. > [@](#): > > I partially agree with you on that one. The ‘please the corporations while making gains in social justice’ strategy has resulted in some _actual gains in social justice_. I applaud those. It’s quite possible they could not have been achieved by a fire-breathing leftist approach. > > But, yes, the quest to please the upper 0.01% went too far in the Clinton and Obama years. And the Reagan and Bush I and II and Trump years. IOW, it’s been going too far for the past 40 years, and has resulted in the massive and destructive gap in income and wealth inequality, and resulting political inequality, that we’re experiencing now. The shell game that’s going on in terms of centrism is that Dems supposedly need to be centrist to win over those blue-collar workers in Wisconsin. But the actual Dem centrism is all about going easy on the rich. And I don’t know how much gains it’s gotten us in the way of social justice. We’ve moved a long way towards equality for gays, but it sure looks like the huge disparities in wealth have helped enable the abuses that went largely unresponded to until the ‘me too’ movement of the past couple of years. And the wealthy were been largely oblivious for decades to the reality that our society was far from colorblind. So Dem centrism has been good for gays, not so good for women, and kinda useless for blacks. > [@](#): > > If you want to make the case that “that’s who he is,” then you need to explain why Biden didn’t spend the eight years as Vice President working full-tilt to grind down the financially-struggling. > > A Vice President may not have the powers to issue Executive Orders or to introduce legislation, but he or she _does_ have the power conferred by a very prominent soap box. Namely, a VP can give speeches, call for commissions and hearings, and generally communicate any platform he or she finds to be important. > > Did Biden spend those years trying to convince the nation that those with financial problems shouldn’t have the option of bankruptcy? Did he spend _any part_ of those years doing so? > > If not, why not? He’d already racked up that big W. His work there was done. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3073 "2020-01-12T22:09:35Z")
It appears the Sanders campaign is going full tilt. His surrogates are blasting Biden and Warren together now. The debate will be fun! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3074 "2020-01-12T23:51:25Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … If he felt he was being true enough to his ideals while representing MBNA et al. as much as he was, then that’s fine for him, but the rest of us should take into account that that’s who he is. … > [@Sherrerd](#): > > …If you want to make the case that “that’s who he is,” then you need to explain why Biden didn’t spend the eight years as Vice President working full-tilt to grind down the financially-struggling. > > A Vice President may not have the powers to issue Executive Orders or to introduce legislation, but he or she _does_ have the power conferred by a very prominent soap box. Namely, a VP can give speeches, call for commissions and hearings, and generally communicate any platform he or she finds to be important. > > Did Biden spend those years trying to convince the nation that those with financial problems shouldn’t have the option of bankruptcy? Did he spend _any part_ of those years doing so? … > [@RTFirefly](#): > > He’d already racked up that big W. His work there was done. Oh, come on. Of course there was _more_ grinding-down-of-the-financially-struggling that Biden could have promoted during his VP years—if that truly is “who he is.” He could, for example, have worked to eliminate bankruptcy as an option altogether. ‘He’d already done it’ is weak. The attempt to smear Biden on this front is fatally damaged by his lack of ‘stick it to the struggling’ efforts during those eight years. It’s a smear that is struck down by basic logic. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3075 "2020-01-13T01:36:07Z")
I cannot think of anybody in the race or who has dropped out who I would not prefer over Biden. I guess I would pick Biden over Williamson. But for the rest I would pick them over Biden easily. Even that guy from Florida whose name I can’t remember. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3076 "2020-01-13T11:23:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Oh, come on. Of course there was _more_ grinding-down-of-the-financially-struggling that Biden could have promoted during his VP years—if that truly is “who he is.” He could, for example, have worked to eliminate bankruptcy as an option altogether. Eliminating it entirely would require a Constitutional amendment. That’s a rather stiff challenge. > [@](#): > > ‘He’d already done it’ is weak. The attempt to smear Biden on this front is fatally damaged by his lack of ‘stick it to the struggling’ efforts during those eight years. It’s a smear that is struck down by basic logic. > > Try again. Oh, gimme a break. There really is a limit to how much money you can squeeze out of people who are already in desperate financial straits. The 2005 Bankruptcy Act is pretty damn close to that limit. There really wasn’t much more money to be made that way. He’d already all but maxed it out. Fight finished, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3077 "2020-01-13T12:30:31Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > This will come as a great shock to those who had forgotten she was still in the race. I swear I am one of those people. And I considered myself someone who was actively following the race. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3078 "2020-01-13T14:17:21Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > I swear I am one of those people. And I considered myself someone who was actively following the race. So was I, tbh. I thought she’d dropped out months ago. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3079 "2020-01-13T14:42:39Z")
Where candidates stand on the issues may not matter much. Even in the unlikely event that the D’s hold 50 Senate seats, will they have the gumption to revoke the filibuster rule? _No._ Will they have the gumption to pack the Supreme Court? _No._ Will they be able to push an agenda opposed by Moscow Mitch and/or Brett Kavanaugh? _No._ The major difference between a Biden Presidency and a Warren Presidency is that the latter would attract shrill hatred, impact business confidence, and probably increase the R’s electoral chances in 2022 and 2024. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Most of the time, you can help your constituents in ways where the worst pain that others’ non-rich constituents might feel is slightly higher taxes. > **Biden helped them in ways that ruined many thousands of people’s lives, and continues to do so.** > > Big difference. And the Reagan and Bush I and II and Trump years. IOW, it’s been going too far for the past 40 years, and has resulted in the massive and destructive gap in income and wealth inequality, and resulting political inequality, that we’re experiencing now. > > The shell game that’s going on in terms of centrism is that Dems supposedly need to be centrist to win over those blue-collar workers in Wisconsin. But the actual Dem centrism is all about going easy on the rich. > > And I don’t know how much gains it’s gotten us in the way of social justice. We’ve moved a long way towards equality for gays, but it sure looks like the huge disparities in wealth have helped enable the abuses that went largely unresponded to until the ‘me too’ movement of the past couple of years. And the wealthy were been largely oblivious for decades to the reality that our society was far from colorblind. So Dem centrism has been good for gays, not so good for women, and kinda useless for blacks.He’d already racked up that big W. His work there was done. I don’t particularly disagree with any of this. But what in heck is “that big W”? ETA: “Win”? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3080 "2020-01-13T15:03:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I don’t particularly disagree with any of this. But what in heck is “that big W”? > > ETA: “Win”? Yes. Apologies for the confusion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=153) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=155)