# Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415 "2018-11-12T17:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 158
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3141 "2020-01-19T12:55:01Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Some of the billionaires who have pledged to donate 50% or more of their wealth have already made large donations before they die. For example Gates foundation has donated $50 billion already. And they still have $50 bil left. > > Here is what they donated to: > > [Foundation Fact Sheet (At A Glance) | Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation](https://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/General-Information/Foundation-Factsheet) The point is, they’re arrogating to themselves the right to make choices personally that we ought to be making as a democracy. Like I said, to the extent that they want to keep it that way, they’re the enemy. It’s one thing if they’re saying, “we’re giving away our money and we’re also lobbying for laws that would redistribute wealth downward,” but if they’re fine with how things are, it doesn’t matter how much they’re giving away. They’re still in favor of our being a society where an overclass makes all the big decisions. If they’re against small-d democracy itself, they’re the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3142 "2020-01-19T12:58:50Z")
I agree it’s bad these guys have so much wealth but it makes me feel a slight bit better when they donate it to charities. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3143 "2020-01-19T16:15:15Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > He shouldn’t have lied. But if he’s going to lie, it’s better to not back down than to admit to it. In two days, NOBODY IS GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS. He can either have it ON THE RECORD that he admitted to lying - or not, and wait for everyone to move on to another subject. Nothing to be gained from backing down!! He doesn’t have to “go on the record” for anything. All he has to do is blame some staffer for “making a mistake” about posting the video and move on. Doubling down on a proven lie just makes him a damn liar. Isn’t that what we’re trying to get _out_ of the WH? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3144 "2020-01-19T16:35:56Z")
Sleepy Joe has called for social security cuts as recently as 2018 > **[Fact Check: Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years](https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/)** > > “I tried with Senator Grassley back in the 1980s to freeze all government spending, including Social Security, including everything,” Biden said in 1995. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3145 "2020-01-19T16:51:52Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Sleepy Joe has called for social security cuts as recently as 2018 > > [Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years](https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/) What do you think is the most damning part in that article? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3146 "2020-01-19T18:31:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Meh. I dislike Biden enough that a misleading video about him doesn’t really bother me. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3147 "2020-01-19T18:47:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Sleepy Joe has called for social security cuts as recently as 2018 > > [Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years](https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/) Another Sanders supporter lying again. A _"Freeze’_ on increasing all of the Federal budget, which includes SocSec, and Military and Congress pay and Foreign aid and everything else- is not a _'cut"_ to anything. A freeze is not a cut, never has been never will be. Joe has never advocated cutting SocSec. This attack on Biden by Sanders and his Berniebros is scurrilous. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3148 "2020-01-19T18:54:55Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Sleepy Joe has called for social security cuts as recently as 2018 > > [Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years](https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/) And can we assume by your use of Trump’s chosen “nickname” for Joe Biden that you’re on Team Trump if it comes down to Biden vs. Trump? I mean, you’re doing Trump’s work for him by misrepresenting Biden’s record after all. And seriously, the only people who use “Sleepy Joe” are Trump and the mooks who blindly follow him. Way to carry out Trump’s messaging. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3149 "2020-01-19T19:17:44Z")
The only thing I’m taking away from this is that these candidates are really shitty candidates if TRUMP’S derisive nicknames for them are sticking with DEMOCRATIC voters. No, this guy is obviously not on Team Trump. But Biden is so unlikable that even Democrats want to call him names. I personally wouldn’t call him “sleepy Joe” because he doesn’t seem sleepy to me; he seems like a combination of senile and manic. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3150 "2020-01-19T20:54:20Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > He doesn’t have to “go on the record” for anything. All he has to do is blame some staffer for “making a mistake” about posting the video and move on. Doubling down on a proven lie just makes him a damn liar. Isn’t that what we’re trying to get _out_ of the WH? If anything the failure to do that is a lost opportunity for Sanders to reinforce his brand, the same brand that couldn’t give a damn about Clinton’s e-mails. The timing of it also couldn’t be worse for him, while he and Warren are on hot mics each complaining about how the other is calling them a liar. The one consistent strength Sanders has always had is how people perceive him as someone who is honest, who speaks truth to power. His strength as a primary candidate has included that he didn’t try to claim that his M4A would not mean more taxes (but did mean less net overall costs for most). Playing loose with the truth in a dirty pool way, even allowing your staff to do so without your repudiation, is _off brand_ at a time when that brand is already under attack as some are already concluding that you are lying about what you said to Warren in private. It is also a really bad look to be wearing as the impeachment trial starts … really don’t need to have it pointed out how D senators lie for political gain and deny it right now. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3151 "2020-01-19T21:02:38Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The only thing I’m taking away from this is that these candidates are really shitty candidates if TRUMP’S derisive nicknames for them are sticking with DEMOCRATIC voters. … I have a hard time believing you are this naive. I am 100% sure that if Trump had gotten Ukraine to announce an investigation, supporters of D candidates other than Biden would have been all over it. And if Warren was on top there would be some Ds all over whatever oppo research Trump and Putin had to dump on her. The circular firing squad is reliable. The top four and several not in that group are all fine D candidates. The knee jerk “gloves off” of trying to tear down the ones above your choice rather than elevate your favorite by their merits is a shame, and while those who do that may not be officially Team Trump they do serve as Team Trump assets. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3152 "2020-01-19T21:55:01Z")
I was one of the only people I know, and I know a LOT of people, who predicted that Donald Trump would win the 2016 election. NOBODY else believed me. I am not naive when it comes to politics. I am a layman, not an expert, but I have an intuitive sense and I can read people. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3153 "2020-01-19T22:02:43Z")
So I am a Trump fan and a Sanders fan? 🙂 Right now I would vote for Yang. If he drops out I would vote for anyone but Biden. Possibly Warren. If it’s Biden vs. Trump I would hold my nose and vote Biden. Of course I would vote for dead Charles Manson over Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3154 "2020-01-19T23:59:53Z")
Joe Biden agrees with Paul Ryan? The Paul Ryan who was taken to the cleaners by Joe Biden in the 2012 debate? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3155 "2020-01-20T00:24:34Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The only thing I’m taking away from this is that these candidates are really shitty candidates if TRUMP’S derisive nicknames for them are sticking with DEMOCRATIC voters. … This is exactly what the GOP and the Kremlin want you to believe. Bijou Drains is clearly a Sanders fan and they are fed with nonstop lies from the Kremlin, the GOP and yes- Bernie himself. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3156 "2020-01-20T00:42:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > To the (pretty significant, AFAICT) extent that billionaires want to preserve the incredibly imbalanced atate of wealth in this country and use their influence to do so, yes, billionaires are the enemy. > > Laid-off coal miners might be assholes too, but their assholism doesn’t have consequences beyond their circle of friends. Yet there are billionaires who value a democratic and equitable society and there are coal miners who vote against their own interests and fall in love with kleptocrats. Judge the billionaire not by his wealth but by his positions and actions. FDR came from the socioeconomic elite and yet he was arguably a man of the people, as was most of the Kennedy clan. You can be rich and value equality, just as you can be poor and value inequality. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3157 "2020-01-20T01:03:17Z")
Should I post screen shots of my donations to Yang? Not worth the trouble. Maybe you can find posts where I said I was a Sanders guy? I posted I was a Yang guy at least once. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3158 "2020-01-20T02:03:30Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Yet there are billionaires who value a democratic and equitable society and there are coal miners who vote against their own interests and fall in love with kleptocrats. Judge the billionaire not by his wealth but by his positions and actions. > > FDR came from the socioeconomic elite and yet he was arguably a man of the people, as was most of the Kennedy clan. You can be rich and value equality, just as you can be poor and value inequality. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > **To the** (pretty significant, AFAICT) **extent that** billionaires want to preserve the incredibly imbalanced atate of wealth in this country and use their influence to do so, yes, billionaires are the enemy. > > Laid-off coal miners might be assholes too, but their assholism doesn’t have consequences beyond their circle of friends. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > The point is, they’re arrogating to themselves the right to make choices personally that we ought to be making as a democracy. > > Like I said, **to the extent that they want to keep it that way** , they’re the enemy. It’s one thing if they’re saying, “we’re giving away our money and we’re also lobbying for laws that would redistribute wealth downward,” but if they’re fine with how things are, it doesn’t matter how much they’re giving away. They’re still in favor of our being a society where an overclass makes all the big decisions. If they’re against small-d democracy itself, they’re the enemy. Just because **DSeid** elides it out when he’s quoting me, doesn’t unsay it. It’s still there. Yet here you are, believing you’re taking issue with what I said by saying something that’s largely in agreement with what I’ve said. If we diverge on anything, it’s that you appear to regard the assholishness of poor people and billionaires as being of equal consequence - but I don’t believe you actually believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3159 "2020-01-20T02:17:33Z")
if you go back to the 1800s some of those guys like John D. Rockefeller were actually richer, based on share of GDP, than Gates , Buffet, etc. today. Based on inflation adjusted dollars Gates would be richer than Rockefeller. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3160 "2020-01-20T03:55:14Z")
Bloomberg might be ‘buying’ the nomination but it needs to be said that he’s the only candidate - the only one - who’s actually putting out attack ads against Trump. He’s the only one fighting the propaganda war that needs to be fought. I don’t care how ‘pure’ the Dems are: if they’re not waging information warfare against the republicans, they lose. And we can’t afford to lose again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=157) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=159)