# Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415 "2018-11-12T17:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 176
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3501 "2020-02-07T22:15:44Z")
Really simple: I don’t trust the polls. I don’t trust them at all. You can say or think whatever you want about that, including that I’m an idiot; it’s OK, and I don’t take it personally. That’s my belief and the chances of it changing, according to the most recent poll, is zero. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3502 "2020-02-07T22:19:24Z")
In an interview with Vox, [James Carville makes an impassioned argument](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/7/21123518/trump-2020-election-democratic-party-james-carville) as to why this is a terrible time to launch a progressive revolution. I think I agree. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3503 "2020-02-07T22:28:49Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > In an interview with Vox, [James Carville makes an impassioned argument](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/7/21123518/trump-2020-election-democratic-party-james-carville) as to why this is a terrible time to launch a progressive revolution. > > I think I agree. He’s right and he’s wrong. In the House or on a local level, sure. But we need to take back the senate and the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3504 "2020-02-07T22:41:04Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > A New Hampshire Bernie supporter on NPR this morning made a humorous but possibly intelligent point. Trump will attack the nominee viciously, whoever he/she is, and will brand them as “Socialist!!!” regardless. Most of the nominees will “scatter like cockroaches when the light goes on” if that happens, but Bernie will just lean into it. > > I guess if you’re gonna be tarred as a socialist anyway we might as well nominate one. That’s fine for Sanders to fully take ownership on, but I’m not sure those down ballot candidates who helped the Democratic Party gain control of the House by winning red districts will be thrilled. Moderates won those seats. By slim margins but they won. Whereas the Sanders wing which elevated the likes of AOC in already blue districts, did not flip one red district. Democrats need to keep hold of the house and win the senate too. In addition to use that argument that whoever the Dems will put up will be branded a socialist. True. But the swing state voters and red state voters haven’t been rejecting moderate democrats over the years. Moderate democrats support protecting the welfare blanket, protecting and expanding civil rights, investing in education/healthcare/public utilities and green environmental initiatives too. If those people have been rejected as too much big government and rather they voted in favour of republicans who instead work to roll back those policies then it makes no sense that they would gleefully accept a loud and proud socialist as if that’s what they have been waiting for all this time. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3505 "2020-02-07T22:50:22Z")
correction^ \*have been rejecting moderate democrats over the years ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3506 "2020-02-07T23:03:57Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > That’s fine for Sanders to fully take ownership on, but I’m not sure those down ballot candidates who helped the Democratic Party gain control of the House by winning red districts will be thrilled. Moderates won those seats. By slim margins but they won. Whereas the Sanders wing which elevated the likes of AOC in already blue districts, did not flip one red district. Democrats need to keep hold of the house and win the senate too. > > In addition to use that argument that whoever the Dems will put up will be branded a socialist. True. But the swing state voters and red state voters haven’t been rejecting moderate democrats over the years. Moderate democrats support protecting the welfare blanket, protecting and expanding civil rights, investing in education/healthcare/public utilities and green environmental initiatives too. If those people have been rejected as too much big government and rather they voted in favour of republicans who instead work to roll back those policies then it makes no sense that they would gleefully accept a loud and proud socialist as if that’s what they have been waiting for all this time. I think that anything can be Overton-Windowed into becoming acceptable, though. Even downright fascism, I think, could pass - and be elected - on the label of “Fascism” itself - if given enough airtime, time to talk through its “pros and cons,” etc. Not that I’m comparing democratic socialism to fascism, but I think almost anything can fly these days if it’s given enough time and the public frog given enough time to slowly warm up in the saucepan water. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3507 "2020-02-08T20:50:52Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > In an interview with Vox, [James Carville makes an impassioned argument](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/7/21123518/trump-2020-election-democratic-party-james-carville) as to why this is a terrible time to launch a progressive revolution. > > I think I agree. James Carville - now _there’s_ a blast from the past! He was a big deal in 1992. But Toto, we’re not in the 90s anymore. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3508 "2020-02-08T22:50:54Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > James Carville - now _there’s_ a blast from the past! > > He was a big deal in 1992. But Toto, we’re not in the 90s anymore. Nothing like an “OK, Boomer” coming from a boomer. Most amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3509 "2020-02-08T23:19:14Z")
[New Biden commercial takes shots at Mayor Pete’s record.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3beFOnjBoE) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3510 "2020-02-08T23:28:32Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > James Carville - now _there’s_ a blast from the past! > > He was a big deal in 1992. But Toto, we’re not in the 90s anymore. So no comment about his actual argument made? He’s not an in-thing trending and that’s enough to dismiss the points? Okay. The argument made is that the Democrats win, not only the Presidency but the Senate > [@](#): > > By framing, repeating, and delivering a coherent, meaningful message that is relevant to people’s lives and having the political skill not to be sucked into every rabbit hole that somebody puts in front of you. > > The Democratic Party is the party of African Americans. It’s becoming a party of educated suburbanites, particularly women. It’s the party of Latinos. We’re a party of immigrants. Most of the people aren’t into all this distracting shit about open borders and letting prisoners vote. They don’t care. They have lives to lead. They have kids. They have parents that are sick. That’s what we have to talk about. That’s all we should talk about. > > It’s not that this stuff doesn’t matter. And it’s not that we shouldn’t talk about race. We have to talk about race. It’s about how you deliver and frame the message. I thought Cory Booker’s “baby bonds” plan was great and the kind of thing the party could connect to people’s actual lives. > > We have one moral imperative here, and that’s beating Trump. Nothing else matters. … > > … not everything has to be on the left-right continuum. I love Warren’s day care plan just like I love Booker’s baby bonds. That’s the kind of stuff our candidates should explain and define clearly and repeatedly for voters and not get diverted by whatever the hell is in the air that day. > > Here’s another stupid thing: Democrats talking about free college tuition or debt forgiveness. I’m not here to debate the idea. What I can tell you is that people all over this country worked their way through school, sent their kids to school, paid off student loans. They don’t want to hear this shit. And you saw Warren confronted by an angry voter over this. It’s just not a winning message. > > The real argument here is that some people think there’s a real yearning for a left-wing revolution in this country, and if we just appeal to the people who feel that, we’ll grow and excite them and we’ll win. But there’s a word a lot of people hate that I love: politics. It means building coalitions to win elections. It means sometimes having to sit back and listen to what people think and framing your message accordingly. … The argument could be made by the newest most exciting new thing or Joe the Plumber. It is as cogent either way. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3511 "2020-02-10T02:14:15Z")
I must beg your indulgence to interrupt the thread with an installment of Cute Things My Kid Said. “Daddy, I know why you like Bernie!” "Because his name sounds like “Beer!” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3512 "2020-02-10T02:29:05Z")
The Carville take on the campaign has already [its own thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=889705). Which has had the expected responses. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3513 "2020-02-10T03:27:04Z")
Yeah, Carville is a relic of the past. Targeting “moderate independents” was the way to win when he was working for Bill Clinton. But we’re in an era of hyperpartisanship now. The portion of the electorate that might actually vote for either Trump or the Democrat is like 5%. And sure, if you could win all of that 5%, you’d win, but you can’t because they all want different things and, let’s face it, they’re all low information voters at this point. Some of them are Romney-Clinton voters and some of them are Sanders-Trump voters. So really the best you can hope for is to win this group like 3-2, and the worst you can do is to lose 3-2. And at that point, it becomes valid to wonder whether you might actually come out ahead by targeting the Obama-Stein voters instead. The way to win now isn’t by targeting the “swing voters”, but by increasing turnout among the groups that are going to vote for you if they show up. And given that half the people don’t bother to vote at all, even a small increase in turnout can have huge effects. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3514 "2020-02-10T11:06:44Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And at that point, it becomes valid to wonder whether you might actually come out ahead by targeting the Obama-Stein voters instead. Or the Obama-stay-at-home voters. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3515 "2020-02-10T14:32:27Z")
I did something yesterday that I’ve never done before: a living room community gathering in support of a candidate – in this case, Bloomberg. I think I’ve made up my mind – I Like Mike, on Super Tuesday in California. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3516 "2020-02-10T15:04:12Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I did something yesterday that I’ve never done before: a living room community gathering in support of a candidate – in this case, Bloomberg. I think I’ve made up my mind – I Like Mike, on Super Tuesday in California. Im pretty sure I’m going with Bloomberg as well. He’s not just a rich guy buying the Presidency. Take a look at the Bloomberg Philanthropies website. He’s spent the last few years working on public policy initiatives at the local and state levels. He’s actually DONE real stuff to address issues like climate change and the opioid crisis. Lots of other stuff as well. Gun control. Health care. This isn’t some vanity campaign. When you don’t have to beg for money you can focus that energy on other things. And it’s refreshing to support a candidate who isn’t always trying to hit me up for $5. He’s the anti-Trump. He’s the ice to Trump’s fire, the Superego to his Id, the lawful good to his chaotic evil. I’d probably vote for him even if the other candidates weren’t so flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3517 "2020-02-10T15:13:12Z")
I’ve gotten targeted Bloomberg ads and they have swayed me _against_ him. They emphasize his passion for gun control, which I am neither against nor have super-high on my priorities and it doesn’t have a large chance of meaningful reform getting done anyway. So he goes to the bottom of my viable candidates choices if he’s going to tilt so much at that windmill. Not that it matters since I live in Florida and am not a registered party member. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3518 "2020-02-10T15:55:50Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Im pretty sure I’m going with Bloomberg as well. > > He’s not just a rich guy buying the Presidency. Take a look at the Bloomberg Philanthropies website. He’s spent the last few years working on public policy initiatives at the local and state levels. He’s actually DONE real stuff to address issues like climate change and the opioid crisis. Lots of other stuff as well. Gun control. Health care. This isn’t some vanity campaign. When you don’t have to beg for money you can focus that energy on other things. And it’s refreshing to support a candidate who isn’t always trying to hit me up for $5. > > He’s the anti-Trump. He’s the ice to Trump’s fire, the Superego to his Id, the lawful good to his chaotic evil. > > I’d probably vote for him even if the other candidates weren’t so flawed. Same. And I find his calm, confident lack of personality refreshing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3519 "2020-02-10T16:10:21Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Or the Obama-stay-at-home voters. Exactly. Who as a group also lean left, though not as strongly as the Obama-Stein voters. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/3520 "2020-02-10T19:53:35Z")
Two national polls released with surveys done entirely post-Iowa, and Sanders leads both, one by only one point but the other by eight. He’s now within 0.2% of Biden in the 538 polling average nationally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=175) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=177)