# Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415 "2018-11-12T17:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1441 "2019-06-28T14:12:37Z")
I wasn’t a Harris fan going in, and she’s not my first choice, but I do agree that she did well and I’ll place her in my top 5. But she needs to go to the Warmth Store and pick up a shitload. She won’t go far on just shouty anger. Buttigieg is amazing. He has a unique ability to answer questions as if he was an intelligent human, not a pol-bot. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1442 "2019-06-28T14:19:51Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I wasn’t a Harris fan going in, and she’s not my first choice, but I do agree that she did well and I’ll place her in my top 5. But she needs to go to the Warmth Store and pick up a shitload. She won’t go far on just shouty anger. > > Buttigieg is amazing. He has a unique ability to answer questions as if he was an intelligent human, not a pol-bot. Pete is a great guy, no doubt. But I question whether being mayor of a moderate sized city is enough seasoning for a run for the presidency. I’d love to see him run for Senate in IN. And let’s be honest- is America ready to elect a gay president? I’d love to think so. Maybe those whom it would bother vote Republican anyway. Harris is fine. She’s as sharp as Warren but doesn’t come off as so preachy-screechy. I want to see her numbers in the black community tick up before I get on board, you simply can’t get elected president without black turnout. Harris-Castro? Maybe a winner. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1443 "2019-06-28T14:41:27Z")
I’m pleased to see Harris moving up. I saw her potential from the start and she’s really a force to be reckoned with. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1444 "2019-06-28T16:23:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Kamala Harris most certainly stood out as the winner of last night’s debate from the perspective of the hard partisans, but how did she win? She won by insinuating that the party’s dominant front-runner may have a racist bone in his body after all. Whether she said those words or meant that doesn’t matter – she made Joe Biden, the party’s front runner, look pathetically weak and put him on the defensive just by having to talk about the issue. To be sure, Biden probably has other problems than just fending off charges of sympathizing with segregationists but that’s not the point. The point is, winning the democratic nomination will likely involve beating each other up over who’s the real champion for social justice, and that’s not a fight Democrats want to carry into the general election. They will get fucking destroyed if that is their cause. > > And here’s the thing: it’s utterly ridiculous to go there, because Joe Biden served as Barack Obama’s sidekick for 8 years without any hint of a racial controversy. Most white centrists, whom the progressives will need to win control of the federal government whether they realize it or not, probably came away with the debates disappointed. You are thinking too hard about this (then again all political wonks are really). In 2 months, few people are going to remember this was about segregationists and busing, they’ll just remember that Harris shanked Biden. Biden’s is the front runner due to major support from African Americans. Harris is trying to get some of Biden’s African American support and in addition she needs to bring down Biden a bit in order to have a chance of getting the nomination. In addition she needed a ‘moment’ to boost her fundraising. This was planned to do all those things. I doubt in the next debate Harris will try to takedown Biden on race at all. And there are going to be a LOT of debates. Some are making too much of a mountain out of this molehill. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1445 "2019-06-28T16:35:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And here’s the thing: it’s utterly ridiculous to go there, because Joe Biden served as Barack Obama’s sidekick for 8 years without any hint of a racial controversy. Well, maybe a hint > [@](#): > > Jan. 31, 2007 > > “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1446 "2019-06-28T16:38:58Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You are thinking too hard about this (then again all political wonks are really). In 2 months, few people are going to remember this was about segregationists and busing, they’ll just remember that Harris shanked Biden. Biden’s is the front runner due to major support from African Americans. Harris is trying to get some of Biden’s African American support and in addition she needs to bring down Biden a bit in order to have a chance of getting the nomination. In addition she needed a ‘moment’ to boost her fundraising. This was planned to do all those things. > > I doubt in the next debate Harris will try to takedown Biden on race at all. And there are going to be a LOT of debates. > > Some are making too much of a mountain out of this molehill. I do confess to being an over-thinker, but I don’t think I’m overthinking this one. Harris’ take-down of Biden was brutal because it was put in such personal terms. Of course it was also brutal because Biden just responded so poorly to the question. I can’t put this totally on Harris’ even though I wish she hadn’t gone so low; Biden really and truly has an age problem, and that’s not going to go away. It never does, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1447 "2019-06-28T16:44:34Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, maybe a hint Oh wow, find a quote that makes Biden look bad. :rolleyes: If Biden was so racist maybe Obama should have chosen another vice presidential candidate. Of course he didn’t because he knew that Biden wasn’t really a racist at all, but moreover, he knew that Biden could appeal to whites without a college education in the working class states that were critical to his chances of winning the White House. Barack Obama won swing states because he didn’t scare away all the centrist white voters. Something the party might want to think about going forward. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1448 "2019-06-28T16:50:06Z")
Harris’ take-down of Biden was cold and calculated, built on faux outrage. She thought: where is Biden vulnerable? A: his long, long voting record, and his recent poorly worded comments about working with segregationists. And what leverage do I (Harris) have, that I can use? A: I was bused as a school kid. From a policy standpoint it’s meaningless (really? we’re talking about busing in 2019?) But as a political move it was brilliant and nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1449 "2019-06-28T16:54:28Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Oh wow, find a quote that makes Biden look bad. :rolleyes: > > If Biden was so racist maybe Obama should have chosen another vice presidential candidate. Of course he didn’t because he knew that Biden wasn’t really a racist at all, but moreover, he knew that Biden could appeal to whites without a college education in the working class states that were critical to his chances of winning the White House. Barack Obama won swing states because he didn’t scare away all the centrist white voters. Something the party might want to think about going forward. I don’t think Biden is racist. I like the guy. He’s not my top choice but he would be a fine nominee and a good president ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1450 "2019-06-28T16:56:12Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > From a policy standpoint it’s meaningless… But as a political move it was brilliant and nasty. The lesson of the 2016 election. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1451 "2019-06-28T17:06:50Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > ; Biden really and truly has an age problem, and that’s not going to go away. It never does, obviously. Well, eventually it turns into a dead problem. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1452 "2019-06-28T17:17:30Z")
Biden is certainly not racist and never has been. If he is the nominee he will have stronger Black support than HRC did. Harris played an effective political move that was brilliantly executed. It was not at all “nasty.” (One of Trump’s go-to words for any strong woman who criticizes him.) Neither was it mean or low. It was very effective prosecution of a “witness” that had not bothered to adequately prep for the deposition. Trump on the stand would be toast in a way that he never was with HRC. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1453 "2019-06-28T18:04:56Z")
Has Harris clarified what her policy position on federally enforced busing is? If she believes the federal government should force cities to bus their students that is a big deal and probably a big political risk. If she doesn’t , then her position is largely similar to Biden’s and it’s not clear what the significance of that exchange really was other than a pure debating gimmick. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1454 "2019-06-28T18:10:35Z")
Quote: Jan. 31, 2007 “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” i used this quote just recently in a discussion with a friend. biden has a habit of phrasing things that can leave the door open for multiple interpretations. in the above quote people heard, clean as in hygiene, clean as in no scandal, and clean as in no arrests. things spun around and biden had to constantly explain it. as for the current field, i liked 5 candidate going into the 2 night debates. warren, harris, booker, klobuchar, and buttigieg. ms maddow had each on her show one on one and they all were very good. harris is a serious alpha type. i don’t see her as a vp, she is always the leader in any group. she is very good at clearly stating her positions on things and is very commanding. warren is passionate. she has the fire to get to the white house. very good at stating her vision. booker is hands on. just wades in and gets what needs to get done, done. he is very good at getting past obstacles. klobuchar is a quiet force. she works well with others and is able to get them to go her way, thinking it was their idea. buttigieg is very knowledgeable. he has the facts down cold. he doesn’t seem to rattle. after the debates, i have to add in castro to the mix. the first 3 are top of the ticket people. i don’t see them going for the second spot. if they don’t make president i can see them in the cabinet, but not vp. the next 3, adding castro, would be good at the top of the ticket, but also as vp. they could work well with any of the first 3. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1455 "2019-06-28T18:22:56Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Has Harris clarified what her policy position on federally enforced busing is? If she believes the federal government should force cities to bus their students that is a big deal and probably a big political risk. If she doesn’t , then her position is largely similar to Biden’s and it’s not clear what the significance of that exchange really was other than a pure debating gimmick. 😕 Weren’t they talking about stuff from the 70s? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1456 "2019-06-28T18:24:29Z")
After watching both nights of debate I think it is in the best interest of the Democrats to get this field thinned down to 7 or so candidates as soon as possible. Based on nothing more than my take on how each candidate came across I would expect this group to be made up of these people: **Biden** and **Sanders** - Joe was a disappointment for me but maybe it was just a bad night for him. Both he and Sanders do have solid followings so they should be in this group but I’m less comfortable with either of them getting the nomination than I was before. **Harris** - I’ve been skeptical of her but I will admit to being impressed by her performance. I don’t know if she would have a better chance of winning in the general than anyone else but it would be a helluva lot of fun watching her take down DJT. **Booker** - He did himself no harm and came across pretty much as I expected. **Warren** - Again what I expected but she did seem less like she was lecturing the country than what I’ve noticed in the past so that should help her. **Buttigieg** - Pete continues to impress me but I’m not convinced this is his time. An obvious person to end up in the VP spot for several of the other candidates. **Castro** - This guy was the big surprise for me. In the past he has come off to me as being a light weight without much charisma. That changed for me on Wednesday. I actually think he moves ahead of Mayor Pete in my mind as someone who would be a strong VP choice for Warren, Booker or Harris. I like **Inslee** and thought he did well but I’m not convinced he will get the traction he needs. **DeBlasio** was better than I expected but I don’t see him as a realistic option. The rest missed their chance to really break out IMHO and it would be better for most, if not all, of them to be gone sooner rather than later. Of course, this is based on only one debate and it is still very very early so I realize I could well be wrong on all of this. Well, not on this statement - Swallwell, Delaney, Williamson and Bennet are just wasting everyone’s time and have no business on future debate stages. And O’Rourke was an embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1457 "2019-06-28T18:33:22Z")
Buttigeig has been floundering on his city’s police force and his record there. The facts on the shooting aren’t in and I don’t jump on the police unless there is evidence of wrongdoing, but he has had a chance to influence PD hiring- and hasn’t. Harris remains Harris. She can talk, but her record as prosecutor was totally not friendly to black Americans, and those around here remember. Intelligent? That isn’t her reputation, either. The last time I saw her trying to do her job was setting up a gotcha for Kavanaugh that sort of petered out. I don’t see her as POTUS or VP material (or Senator, so what do I know). Sanders and Biden are damn old. Booker (and Harris) appear to want me to vote because of their color and/ or gender. And Booker is promoting positions too out of line for me. And as I said above, I don’t trust Harris’ walk will match her talk. I am not sure about the rest. Maybe more exposure will give more information. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1458 "2019-06-28T18:40:52Z")
I agree with most of what DSeid said. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Pete is a great guy, no doubt. But I question whether being mayor of a moderate sized city is enough seasoning for a run for the presidency. I’d love to see him run for Senate in IN. And let’s be honest- is America ready to elect a gay president? I’d love to think so. Maybe those whom it would bother vote Republican anyway. > > Harris is fine. She’s as sharp as Warren but doesn’t come off as so preachy-screechy. I want to see her numbers in the black community tick up before I get on board, you simply can’t get elected president without black turnout. > > Harris-Castro? Maybe a winner. Yeah, TIL Pete is mayor of the 308th largest city in America. That’s even lower ranked than I expected. But he is in a pickle: he is in a red state. Are there even any blue/purple House districts in Indiana that aren’t reserved for the CBC? He is such a gigantic political talent, it’s a real shame. Maybe a few years in a Cabinet position would season him enough to come back strong in his mid-forties? Plenty of time if he can find something to add to his resume. Agreed about “preachy-screechy”. And Harris-Castro definitely sounds interesting! > [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, eventually it turns into a dead problem. LOL > [@Covfefe](#): > > Warren doesn’t have issues with black voters Warren has trouble with ALL voters outside a core liberal base. Do I need to repost her eye-poppingly atrocious numbers in MA? She is the embodiment of swing voter repellent. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1459 "2019-06-28T18:42:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > 😕 Weren’t they talking about stuff from the 70s? So what? If Harris thinks Biden was substantively wrong she could propose bringing back the policies that he opposed in the 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1460 "2019-06-28T18:46:26Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > So what? If Harris thinks Biden was substantively wrong she could propose bringing back the policies that he opposed in the 70’s. Yeah, but that’s not a slam dunk. The people she needs to reach are in many instances the same people who were against forced busing in the '70s. Not sure this is the hill she should want to stake her flag in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=74)