# Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415 "2018-11-12T17:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1461 "2019-06-28T18:46:38Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I feel like none of these candidates said anything of substance, including Harris. Well, perhaps Hickenlooper did but he doesnt have a snowball’s chance in hell. I agree, and would add: of course not. They aren’t there to say things of substance. They are there to (pretend) to be angry, and forceful, and devoted to a cause, and convincing in the idea that they know how to get things done. They are there to be noticed and remembered, and they all know the way to do this is by “performing”. None of that shit means anything as to how well they may do the job of a president. The debates are a sham, and a massive waste of time when it comes to deciding whom to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1462 "2019-06-28T18:47:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … > > Kamala Harris most certainly stood out as the winner of last night’s debate from the perspective of the hard partisans, but how did she win? She won by insinuating that the party’s dominant front-runner may have a racist bone in his body after all. Whether she said those words or meant that doesn’t matter – she made Joe Biden, the party’s front runner, look pathetically weak and put him on the defensive just by having to talk about the issue. … > > As much as I hate to say it, the real winner of the debates…was Donald Trump. Yeah, I was afraid that the Dem race would become a crab bucket, and this confirms it. Harris, by going there, was doing nothing but helping trump get elected. She wasnt helping herself. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1463 "2019-06-28T18:51:47Z")
I strongly disagree. I was “meh” about her before, but now I am very excited about her candidacy. And no one would confuse me for the denizen of a far left Twitter bubble. I would add that Mike Murphy and David Axelrod, hosts of the “Hacks on Tap” podcast and two of the sharpest political minds around, were similarly very impressed. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1464 "2019-06-28T19:20:14Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > So what? If Harris thinks Biden was substantively wrong she could propose bringing back the policies that he opposed in the 70’s. You’re seriously suggesting she take a strong desegregation of schools platform lifted directly from forty years ago? She can defend that policy in its time and place and Biden can defend his opposition similarly without committing to the same strategy now. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1465 "2019-06-28T19:22:49Z")
> [@divemaster](#): > > Yeah, but that’s not a slam dunk. The people she needs to reach are in many instances the same people who were against forced busing in the '70s. Not sure this is the hill she should want to stake her flag in. And that was vastly more true of Biden in the 1970’s. If Harris believes in forced busing but doesn’t have the courage to propose it in 2019, she has little credibility attacking him for his positions back then. In case it’s not clear, I think forced busing is a bad policy both substantively and electorally. I am just confused at the rapturous reception this exchange has received, given that no one seems to be proposing to bring back the policies that Biden opposed.I think that Biden was right on this issue then and is right on it now. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1466 "2019-06-28T19:24:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You’re seriously suggesting she take a strong desegregation of schools platform lifted directly from forty years ago? She can defend that policy in its time and place and Biden can defend his opposition similarly without committing to the same strategy now. Is there any reason why forced busing was a good policy in the 70’s but a bad policy today? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1467 "2019-06-28T20:23:41Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I wonder if the biggest loser in the debates wasn’t the democratic party itself. > > The danger that the Democrats face is increasingly is having to deal with a party that is fractured along the lines of identity politics. > > Kamala Harris most certainly stood out as the winner of last night’s debate from the perspective of the hard partisans, but how did she win? She won by insinuating that the party’s dominant front-runner may have a racist bone in his body after all. Whether she said those words or meant that doesn’t matter – she made Joe Biden, the party’s front runner, look pathetically weak and put him on the defensive just by having to talk about the issue. To be sure, Biden probably has other problems than just fending off charges of sympathizing with segregationists but that’s not the point. The point is, winning the democratic nomination will likely involve beating each other up over who’s the real champion for social justice, and that’s not a fight Democrats want to carry into the general election. They will get fucking destroyed if that is their cause. > > And here’s the thing: it’s utterly ridiculous to go there, because Joe Biden served as Barack Obama’s sidekick for 8 years without any hint of a racial controversy. Most white centrists, whom the progressives will need to win control of the federal government whether they realize it or not, probably came away with the debates disappointed. > > As much as I hate to say it, the real winner of the debates…was Donald Trump. Assume that Biden became the nominee, and Harris didn’t go after him as she did last night. Further, assume that no one going forward does on the question of race, before the convention. What do you think Trump would do at the first opportunity? You and I, and everyone else here, knows _exactly_ what he would do. If Biden can’t withstand the rather tame “attack” from Harris last night, there is no way he would survive a Trumpian onslaught. If last night, or the like, is all it takes to bring down Biden, Harris will have done a great, big favor for the Dems. And this is most assuredly not a plus for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1468 "2019-06-28T20:50:19Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > … > Harris remains Harris. She can talk, but her record as prosecutor was totally not friendly to black Americans, and those around here remember. … Couldn’t you say that about pretty much any American prosecutor, though? > [@sps49sd](#): > > … Intelligent? That isn’t her reputation, either. The last time I saw her trying to do her job was setting up a gotcha for Kavanaugh that sort of petered out… In my opinon she did make mincemeat out of so-called AG Barr. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/QNY8WEuGeII/maxresdefault.jpg "WATCH: Sen. Kamala Harris's full questioning of Attorney General Barr") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNY8WEuGeII) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1469 "2019-06-28T20:56:54Z")
Fitting that Harris and Warren ended up fionalists in our own World Cup. Harris-Warren would be the ideal ticket! (Unfortunately, the double-woman ticket would risk rejection by misogyny.) I see I’ve issued conflicting instructions to my delegates: [septimus;21642098]… [/QUOTE] [septimus;21381984]… [/QUOTE] [septimus;21325918]… [/QUOTE] [septimus;21331217] … [/QUOTE] [septimus;21272316]…/QUOTE]. All previous orders are rescinded. \*Please vote **Kamala Harris for President**! \* ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1470 "2019-06-28T21:05:38Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Is there any reason why forced busing was a good policy in the 70’s but a bad policy today? You do realize that the legislation he supported against mandated bussing _failed_ and that the ability of the courts to mandate bussing HAS been the law of the land since then, at least not limited by legislature? It faded as a preferred court tool by the late '80s, partly as the result of a court ruling (Milliken v. Bradley) which limited it to within municipalities, effectively incentivizing flight to suburbia. More court ruling since, see for example P[arents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Involved_in_Community_Schools_v._Seattle_School_District_No._1), have further reduced the ability of the tool to be used. So yes there are reasons why it is not a tool used by courts today despite the fact that the laws aimed at restricting it never passed. Court rulings have constrained its utility in subsequent decades. Segregation, even if not as commonly motivated by overt conscious racism, still exists, often perpetuated by structural factors. The problem is not gone even if it has changed. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1471 "2019-06-28T21:45:40Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I was surprised that Harris didn’t attempt to go after Buttigieg more considering how close they are in the polls. I probably wouldn’t go right after Harris but use her prosecutorial record against her as a way to counter punch. Wasn’t it Harris that said something like: “…and I made sure their body-cameras were always on”? A possible reference to the police-involved shooting in South Bend where the cop’s bodycam was off. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1472 "2019-06-28T21:47:03Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Couldn’t you say that about pretty much any American prosecutor, though? Pretty much any American prosecutor doesn’t run as a progressive. Conservative law-and-orderism is more usual. [quote=“bobot, post:1468, topic:824415”] In my opinion she did make mincemeat out of so-called AG Barr. [/QUOTE] She did better; hopefully she learned from the SC hearings and spent more time preparing. But what was the effect of her mincemeat-making of Barr? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1473 "2019-06-28T22:54:16Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Has Harris clarified what her policy position on federally enforced busing is? If she believes the federal government should force cities to bus their students that is a big deal and probably a big political risk. If she doesn’t , then her position is largely similar to Biden’s and it’s not clear what the significance of that exchange really was other than a pure debating gimmick. The message I got from the exchange is that Biden was/is in favor of defaulting to “state’s rights” when it comes to addressing difficult problems, whether it be racial discrimination or something else. But history has shown us that states are not to be trusted with difficult problems. That’s what the federal government is for. The significance of the exchange is crystal clear to any serious progressive who is looking to be represented by another serious progressive. To a moderate, it’s not that big of a deal. But the candidates aren’t trying to appeal to moderates at this stage of the game. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1474 "2019-06-28T23:22:16Z")
Let’s also bear in mind that there is a lot of middle ground between enthusiastically supporting busing on the one hand, and on the other, working with staunch segregationists to thwart it, then bragging about that in 2019. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1475 "2019-06-29T00:33:25Z")
If it’s not Biden, then either the candidate will be someone who’s not straight, white, middle-aged and male; or someone who fits that description is going to come from \<1% in the polls. Neither of those is an encouraging thought for the general. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1476 "2019-06-29T00:36:40Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Let’s also bear in mind that there is a lot of middle ground between enthusiastically supporting busing on the one hand, and on the other, working with staunch segregationists to thwart it, then bragging about that in 2019. The thing is, everyone knows - Joe himself knows - he has a long and complicated senate record, but it’s mostly a good one. In a way, I accept that maybe my criticism of Harris’ assault might have some holes. There’s really no way anyone could argue that he shouldn’t have seen it coming. And that’s what flabbergasts me: he just sat there and got fucking owned. I can’t remember the last time I watched someone of Biden’s stature get so badly clobbered (someone who didn’t have a Rick Perry self-destruct moment, that is). That’s what I keep going back to: it’s not really Biden’s record on race that was his problem last night; it’s that he didn’t look like the feisty, unadulterated, “I’m a lawyer but could have been a construction worker,” Scranton tough guy that we’re all used to seeing. He looked like he was walking around trying to find someone to play bridge with. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1477 "2019-06-29T00:41:48Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Wasn’t it Harris that said something like: “…and I made sure their body-cameras were always on”? A possible reference to the police-involved shooting in South Bend where the cop’s bodycam was off. Right, I forgot about that. Maybe that was a jab at Pete. I felt Pete got away unscathed last night but the next round could be tough. He needs to figure out a better way to respond. I thought he was honest and manned up, which I appreciate. But he also needs to be ready to give it back, and I suspect he’s going to get nailed by some of the former mayors, especially De Blasio and Castro, who will give no quarter. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1478 "2019-06-29T00:51:57Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Assume that Biden became the nominee, and Harris didn’t go after him as she did last night. Further, assume that no one going forward does on the question of race, before the convention. What do you think Trump would do at the first opportunity? You and I, and everyone else here, knows _exactly_ what he would do. If Biden can’t withstand the rather tame “attack” from Harris last night, there is no way he would survive a Trumpian onslaught. If last night, or the like, is all it takes to bring down Biden, Harris will have done a great, big favor for the Dems. And this is most assuredly not a plus for Trump. I guess it’s hard to disagree with this. If there’s one upside to Harris’ assault on Biden, it’s that we may have gotten the first clue that we need to reevaluate Biden’s “electability.” He had such a big lead in the polls that he looked dominant, but his campaign strategy of staying out of the spotlight and trying to go after Trump directly before he’s even started the fight for the nomination just seemed very Jeb Bush-esque. I had forgotten that I had posted this just a few days before: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21713688&postcount=135](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21713688&postcount=135) > [@](#): > > LOL, no. > > But to follow up, his recent gaffes with respect to working with segregationists to get legislation done may hurt him a little going into the campaign, but I think he can survive it. What would worry me if I were a Biden adviser is how he responds in the debates when Cory Booker and others confront him about the comments and push him to apologize in front of a national audience. Subconsciously, people are attracted to perceived strength and repulsed by perceived weakness. Making Biden defend himself and putting him on the defensive in front of millions of people might be damaging, even if voters weren’t necessarily aware of or offended by his original remarks. > > There’s no more hiding from the cameras for Biden. He has to bring it. There’s no more hiding from the cameras indeed. And last night…he did NOT bring it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1479 "2019-06-29T00:55:04Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > If it’s not Biden, then either the candidate will be someone who’s not straight, white, middle-aged and male; or someone who fits that description is going to come from \<1% in the polls. > > Neither of those is an encouraging thought for the general. Just to be clear: Obama proved that a non-white guy can win. But he won because he wasn’t angry. Straight white males can get away with running an angry campaign; others cannot. I wish it weren’t that way but it is. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1480 "2019-06-29T01:59:38Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Quote: > Jan. 31, 2007 > > “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” Call me naive, but what is even possibly remotely wrong with this statement? 1. We’ve got a mainstream black candidate for president 2. he’s articulate, bright, and clean (of course that means no scandal; why would it be doubted that a mainstream candidate showers or brushes his teeth?) 3. he’s a good looking guy. Conclusion: How can he not win? It is perfect for the Democratic Party. What am I missing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=75)