# Hee-haw, y'all. The 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415 "2018-11-12T17:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1481 "2019-06-29T02:17:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I see I’ve issued conflicting instructions to my delegates: All previous orders are rescinded. \*Please vote **Kamala Harris for President**! > \* You’re a smart guy. I knew you’d come around. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1482 "2019-06-29T03:05:58Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Call me naive, but what is even possibly remotely wrong with this statement? I agree that his statement has been taken out of context and being spun as something it’s not. But the reason why is because of his words “the first”. As if all previous “mainstream African-Americans” were NOT articulate, bright, and clean, until “the first” came along. It’s clumsy phrasing but it is certainly a praise of Obama and not intended to be racist. I don’t think Biden’s racist. I think he’s an OK guy. I am positive, though, that he won’t be a competitive nominee. He demonstrated unambiguously during that debate that he is not up to the task. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1483 "2019-06-29T04:55:34Z")
You really don’t see how insulting that was to earlier black candidates? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1484 "2019-06-29T05:27:36Z")
I DO see, I don’t think it was really malicious on Biden’s part, but yeah of course I see how it’s insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1485 "2019-06-29T05:38:08Z")
I am sick of the Democrats turning on each other. As far as I’m concerned, Biden was good enough for Obama and is the one Chump fears the most, so I’m voting Biden come time for the Hawaii primary. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1486 "2019-06-29T05:43:06Z")
My God, a simple competition is not “turning on each other.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1487 "2019-06-29T06:02:07Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I am sick of the Democrats turning on each other. As far as I’m concerned, Biden was good enough for Obama and is the one Chump fears the most, so I’m voting Biden come time for the Hawaii primary. Agreed **Sam** , but I would add two things - whether the President knows it or not I think there are a couple others he should fear **and** I’m not 100% certain Biden will still be in this come time for the Hawaii primary. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1488 "2019-06-29T06:08:07Z")
I bet Trump fears Biden a lot less after seeing that weak performance. On the other hand, I do not think he is relishing the idea of facing Harris on the debate stage. I would not put it past him to come up with some excuse about bias by the moderators or whatever to skip the debate altogether. > [@Lamoral](#): > > I DO see, I don’t think it was really malicious on Biden’s part, but yeah of course I see how it’s insulting. Okay. But does UltraVires see it? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1489 "2019-06-29T06:09:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You do realize that the legislation he supported against mandated bussing _failed_ and that the ability of the courts to mandate bussing HAS been the law of the land since then, at least not limited by legislature? It faded as a preferred court tool by the late '80s, partly as the result of a court ruling (Milliken v. Bradley) which limited it to within municipalities, effectively incentivizing flight to suburbia. More court ruling since, see for example P[arents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Involved_in_Community_Schools_v._Seattle_School_District_No._1), have further reduced the ability of the tool to be used. > > So yes there are reasons why it is not a tool used by courts today despite the fact that the laws aimed at restricting it never passed. Court rulings have constrained its utility in subsequent decades. > > Segregation, even if not as commonly motivated by overt conscious racism, still exists, often perpetuated by structural factors. The problem is not gone even if it has changed. Not all forced busing was court-mandated. As per [this](https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1144658291533987841/video/1) video-clip of Biden in 1977, he was especially concerned about busing brought about by pressure from the then Department of Health Education and Welfare. I don’t know the details of those court rulings you mention but I am guessing they are focused on court-mandated busing and not initiatives from the Federal Government. Presumably a President Harris could also propose legislation to address this issue. In the debate Harris said: > [@](#): > > So I will tell you that, on this subject, it cannot be an intellectual debate among Democrats. We have to take it seriously. We have to act swiftly. Yet though school segregation remains high, Harris doesn’t appear to have any plan on what she wants to do about it. She wanted to hit Biden and get a viral debating moment and she got it but frankly without a clear policy of her own, the whole thing is empty political posturing. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1490 "2019-06-29T06:42:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I bet Trump fears Biden a lot less after seeing that weak performance. On the other hand, I do not think he is relishing the idea of facing Harris on the debate stage. I would not put it past him to come up with some excuse about bias by the moderators or whatever to skip the debate altogether… You are reading my mind about Trump and the debates. I have already wondered how he may avoid them if he has to go up against someone who would have a good chance to hand him his ass. Harris or Booker would be the two most likely to put fear in his heart in that context. Warren would probably be able to take him down but he isn’t likely to realize that in advance. And after Thursday night I expect he is less afraid of facing Biden in a debate than he is afraid of Biden as a formidable opponent at the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![Win\_Place\_Show](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/win_place_show/32/13469_2.png) [@Win\_Place\_Show](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Win_Place_Show)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1491 "2019-06-29T07:02:49Z")
Is there any realistic scenario going that could mean Biden as the VP once again? I adore the guy, but maybe the skills and ‘gravitas’ are behind him? Any chance he could pump the brakes and settle on a VP nod behind either K-Harris or Warren? Or is he in it for “Oval Office or Nothing”? Maybe I’m not asking the question right, but is a K-Harris / Biden ticket even worth discussing, once everything shakes out? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1492 "2019-06-29T11:05:00Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > … She wanted to hit Biden and get a viral debating moment and she got it but frankly without a clear policy of her own, the whole thing is empty political posturing. Of course it was political posturing! It was as planned and rehearsed as that “I knew Jack Kennedy…” moment. But more effective. Segregation is not the focus of her campaign. Racial justice even isn’t. This was not a real fight on issues; it was a demonstration of their respective campaign fighting skill sets. This was a play to push her electability perception up and lower his down with all voters while grabbing some Black voter support. But it was played fair and above the belt. Biden is not down and out but she punctured his most electable shield some and moved herself up as the most likely to take the nom from him. Real world here. Debates are not really about issues. They are about establishing your image and your perception relative to the competition. Maybe Biden was more focused on what he thought Sanders would bring? If so he prepped for the wrong fight. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1493 "2019-06-29T11:38:02Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > A modest proposal to keep candidates from speaking past their time limits, as they did over and over and over again. Another approach would be for a nimble-fingered moderator to keep time on all candidates. Once they exceed their allotment they must remain silent until closing statement. HOWEVER: Did you note how candidates were not interrupted when they delivered long pro-Democratic policy spiels, but then were stopped when they segued into the “That’s why _I_ am the one …” part ? ```auto [quote="Kolak_of_Twilo, post:1414, topic:824415"] However, watching him tonight I do have serious concerns. There was something about his manner and reaction to what was happening that made me feel he is in some sort of decline, whether physical or mental.... tonight was the first time I have seen him come across as seriously old man. [/QUOTE] I'm also worried about Biden, though he seemed alert in the debate. Even when young, he was never the brightest bulb on the tree. :-( ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [quote="Win_Place_Show, post:1491, topic:824415"] Is there any realistic scenario going that could mean Biden as the VP once again? [/QUOTE] I was wondering the same thing! But Biden is too silly old for the V.P. slot; perhaps Biden-Harris is the winning ticket instead of Harris-Biden. In any event I think the D's ticket needs to combine youthful vigor with a wise oldster. Unfortunately, who's the wise oldster? Other than Biden, should we go with Hickenlooper or Inslee??? Maybe Warren if she runs with a man, but the Harris-Warren double-female whammy would be far too much for Archie Bunker to consider a vote. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1494 "2019-06-29T12:01:43Z")
> [@Win\_Place\_Show](#): > > Is there any realistic scenario going that could mean Biden as the VP once again? I adore the guy, but maybe the skills and ‘gravitas’ are behind him? Any chance he could pump the brakes and settle on a VP nod behind either K-Harris or Warren? Or is he in it for “Oval Office or Nothing”? Maybe I’m not asking the question right, but is a K-Harris / Biden ticket even worth discussing, once everything shakes out? Sure. But a squid would also make a fine running mate, and be just as helpful. Because nobody votes for the Veep. 😀 But seriously, I think it highly unlikely Biden would want this. He’s craved the presidency his whole political life. Nothing else is a substitute. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1495 "2019-06-29T13:17:27Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Of course it was political posturing! It was as planned and rehearsed as that “I knew Jack Kennedy…” moment. But more effective. > > Segregation is not the focus of her campaign. Racial justice even isn’t. This was not a real fight on issues; it was a demonstration of their respective campaign fighting skill sets. This was a play to push her electability perception up and lower his down with all voters while grabbing some Black voter support. But it was played fair and above the belt. > > Biden is not down and out but she punctured his most electable shield some and moved herself up as the most likely to take the nom from him. > > Real world here. Debates are not really about issues. They are about establishing your image and your perception relative to the competition. > > Maybe Biden was more focused on what he thought Sanders would bring? If so he prepped for the wrong fight. I agree with all of this. Harris was able to demonstrate two things from that exchange. One, while not racist, Biden is a relic of the bad old days of race relations, when white Dems were more than happy to screw over their black and brown constituents to appease their white ones. And two, Biden is weak. If he can’t defend himself with political allies, what is he going to do with Trump? Flash his teeth? No, we need someone who’s going to clap back at Trump and clap back so hard that Trump’s loserness is revealed to even the most diehard supporter. It has been awhile since Biden clapped back at anyone, while it seems like Harris has been honing her skills since the day she was born. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1496 "2019-06-29T13:23:13Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I agree that his statement has been taken out of context and being spun as something it’s not. But the reason why is because of his words “the first”. As if all previous “mainstream African-Americans” were NOT articulate, bright, and clean, until “the first” came along. It’s clumsy phrasing but it is certainly a praise of Obama and not intended to be racist. I don’t think Biden’s racist. I think he’s an OK guy. > > I am positive, though, that he won’t be a competitive nominee. He demonstrated unambiguously during that debate that he is not up to the task. He meant that Jesse Jackson was not mainstream. I don’t see any deeper meaning than that. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1497 "2019-06-29T13:38:01Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Has Harris clarified what her policy position on federally enforced busing is? If she believes the federal government should force cities to bus their students that is a big deal and probably a big political risk. If she doesn’t , then her position is largely similar to Biden’s and it’s not clear what the significance of that exchange really was other than a pure debating gimmick. Implicitly, yes. That is, by not mentioning busing EVER in all of her political career, she has made it quite clear: she doesn’t give enough of a damn about it to have ever DONE anything regarding it. Or am I wrong? Has she in fact? I can’t find any evidence online. Or is it as I suspect, that she sat down with her advisers and dreamed up the most damaging attack they could think of, so that she would have material to “perform” with, and fool the American electorate that because of it, she is more qualified to be president than Biden. It’s all a show, folks, and I don’t mean to single her out. These debates are a sham. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1498 "2019-06-29T13:43:01Z")
Jesse Jackson was quite mainstream in 1988. So if that was his meaning, he was wrong. Also, Shirly Chisholm was mainstream (having served in Congress), well-spoken, smart, and clean (!) too. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1499 "2019-06-29T13:59:37Z")
For those saying Biden was weak: How exactly should he have responded to a black woman who made the busing issue a personal one? I mean, how should he have responded to this without sounding patronizing, man-splaining or as a condescending white man? The less Biden could say to that, the better. I mean there is no good way to respond to that kind of loaded haymaker. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415/1500 "2019-06-29T14:48:23Z")
**Happy Lendervedder** , if Biden had never mentioned the “good ole days” with his segregationist buddies a couple of weeks ago, Harris wouldn’t have had a chance to throw an uppercut in the debate. The ultimate weakness of Biden isn’t just in his lack of defense against Harris on this particular subject. It’s that he has a big mouth that is calibrated to a different time–a time when politicians could be very inartful in their expressions because there was no one live Tweeting their every word–making it so that he practically hands his opponents ammunition to use against him. Biden should have known that Harris was going to be gunning for him wrt race. So he should have been prepared with something besides sputtering and stammering. Even if his defense wasn’t as effective as hers, it would have still been something. Hell, even an apology would have been something. “I am sorry, Senator Harris, for being hurtful to you. And I hope you know that I sincerely mean that, because having your respect means a lot to me.” Would it have been a show of weakness for him to concede that he had stepped in it with his “segregationists were civil with me!” remark. Sure. But it would have also demonstrated that he understood why the remark was tone-deaf and that he needs to be more careful with how he talks about his past. It would have been more effective than just saying “That is a mischaracterization!”, that’s for damn sure. [And his follow-up act isn’t proving to be any less awkward.](https://qz.com/1655538/joe-biden-that-kid-in-a-hoodie-may-be-a-poet-not-a-gang-banger/). Like, come on, Joe. A kid in a hoodie may just be the next normal, everyday human being. Why does he have to be a poet lauraute to be treated like a human being? Of course Biden knows this, but he needs to stop producing low-hanging fruit like this. Because you can bet his opponents are keeping track of all his verbal gaffs so they can formulate their talking points around them. That’s just how politics are in 2019. Candidates either need to adapt to the times or get off the stage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=74) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hee-haw-yall-the-2020-democratic-presidential-primary/824415.md?page=76)