Hegseth's Pentagon is drastically reducing the number of religions recognized by the military

Politics & Elections
101

I suspect it was after I was recovering from surgery when a heavily Jesus centered chaplain of some sort was bothering me and I said I wasn’t interested, eventually snapping “I’m Jewish”. But as I said, I was recovering from surgery and the memory is a bit hazy around the edges.

Really don’t think he should have taken it upon himself to changed the record IF that’s how it happened. I just don’t know. It is entirely possible that I had used the sharp edge of my tongue without intending to do so given my post-anesthesia condition and perhaps was a bit more… forceful… in expressing myself than I might have been otherwise.

102

I might have said the same thing if a churchy guy wouldn’t leave me alone, and just as sharply. And I’m not Jewish.

103

Probably financial. And it benefits the military. Soldiers in certain kinds of stations-- like basic training-- have to be provided access to their practices. If you are Episcopalian, and there is an Episcopal chapel on the post, but several miles from your quarters, they need a bus, or a jeep to drive you there. They lose the free labor you provide. People who don’t go to Sunday morning services do yard work, shovel snow, clean the DS’s office, and such. I was a faithful Episcopalian for 8 weeks.

If there’s a chapel (or church) near quarters, they need to march you there (really, just escort, or provide you with a pass for like, 2 hours, so you can walk by yourself).

If there’s nothing on post, they need to transport you to the closest place off-post, and provide you with a “buddy” (anyone from your platoon or company who volunteers, if you are the only person of your faith going off post). You and your buddy also need to be issued dress uniforms, since those aren’t generally issued until the second-to-last week.

If you claim to be, say, a Druid, and Druidism is on the list, then they have to drive you when and where there are services, a gathering, whatever. If it’s not on the list, then they do not, although at the discretion of the chaplain, once a week, you can be provided with a private room for an hour or two for prayer and study.

If “Judaism” is all that is recognized, and not, say, “Judaism – Reform,” and a Reform Jew in basic finds that there is no synagogue on post, while the nearest one off-post is Orthodox-- or even, Lubavitch, there can be problems. The First Sergeant, who doesn’t understand Jewish denominations anyway, and doesn’t like soldiers taking off-post trips, may say “All it has to be is Jewish. If she doesn’t like it, she doesn’t have to go.”

There can also be problems getting a buddy to volunteer for an Orthodox service, once word gets around that the women have to sit separately, and it’s two hours of solid Hebrew. Someone in Cadre (enlisted people out of basic, posted there) can be ordered to go with you, which probably isn’t comfortable, and the First Sergeant doesn’t have to do that. Or the cadre may want to sit and get on their phone in the middle of an Orthodox service, which may give the Rebbetzin a stroke.

If “Judaism – Reform” is on the list, however, then they must transport you to the nearest Reform shul.

And so on. That’s incidentally, why so many Christian denominations are mentioned. Almost every post has a Catholic post, and a few random protestant denominations. If your tags said “Christian,” and nothing else, you might get sent to the Catholic church even if you are Lutheran or Pentecostal. And Catholics might get sent to whatever church was closest.

Anyway, the end result of cutting denominations is fewer people needing transportation to places either on the other side of the post, or off-post. If that is cut by 10%, in all basic training classes happening all over the country, it’s a lot of soldiers, and a lot of miles, when fuel is pricey.

104

If that note kept the chaplains away, they did you a solid.

105

Nixon was a member of East Whittier Friends Church (i.e., not Meeting), which is evangelical. Friends have seen a number of schisms (and a smaller number of unschismings). This is the product of one of them. They have programmed services, not silent worship, and IME are less big on the whole Peace Testimony thing.

106

Why bother? For the people presently making these decisions there’s only two sorts of religious beliefs; their own particular Christian sect, and Satan worshipers. “There’s no difference between Shia and Sunni, they all go to Hell” would likely be their answer if they felt like being honest.

107

Y’know, I can get the LDS being rightly peeved at a taxonomy that separates them specifically while it still deems Quakers, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian Scientists (all of whom would be infinitessimal—if at all—shares of the force, JW’s for instance being notoriously opposed to swearing obedience to any earthly state) as subdivisions of “Christian”, and yet at the same time it simply dumps the Unitarians in spite of their well established history in American society. It can be seen as an unsubtle signal that they are merely
tolerated as a “special case” … for now.

108

Very interesting. But if anyone were to claim that Hegseth, et al, are simply engaging in detail-level cost cutting with no ideological aims whatsoever I would quickly begin pointing and laughing.

109

I’m generous enough to say “ideological biases” rather than “aims.” What the army doesn’t already understand, it does not seek to understand. There is a long-standing argument with atheists about whether they should be provided with space to meet and organize, have discussions, socialize, connect, etc. Since they maintain that atheism is not a religion, the army will not treat them like one in any respect, and that is even after a study that soldiers who belonged to a religious community fared better in times of crisis, and through deployment-- because of the support of the community, and the “social work” of their minister (or leader of any stripe), not because of their beliefs.

110

Twenty-something years ago, there were reports of excessive influence by evangelicals at the Air Force Academy, triggered by a report by a team from the Yale Divinity School who visited the Academy.

111

(I mean, come think of it, they could just have made a list labeled by specific denomination to begin with, and used the “Christian” prefix only for the cases of broad generics like “Evangelical” and “Nondenominational”. Then the LDS would not look so obviously set apart.)

And good point from RivkahChaya in that what we have here is a leadership who just don’t get what is the true morale benefit.

112

Seems to me it’s dipping the toe into dangerous waters. They’re establishing the right to define what are legitimate religions for this purpose in order to define them for other purposes, then slowly peel them away until only the preferred faith remains. What’s next, the IRS defining which faiths qualify for tax exemption?

113

I think this administration has been a disaster, and Hegseth is one of its worst.

However, I’d like to suggest two possible non-bigoted reasons why the new designation does not have the word “Christian” in front of “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (CJ)”.

  1. It would be redundant, what with “Jesus Christ” being in the name;
  2. Length; it’s already the longest name on the list

Loyalty is the only thing this administration cares about, and LDS are very reliable Republican voters. Certainly more so than Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I’d be interested in hearing a clarifying statement from the Pentagon.

114

But they did do the labeling for the Church of Christ denomination, so on that point it’s still internally inconsistent.

115

Agreed.

116

The Second (But Not Last) Trump Administration. Internally Inconsistent for over 500 days. And proud of it!

117

I was a good Catholic (which is what I was raised as, although I lost the faith about age 14) for a couple-three weeks until I discovered the group of guys outside the chapel hanging around shooting the bull.

118

What? No Unitarians on the list? (Mentioned a few posts up, I think.)

No Unification Church (Moonies)?

No Church of Satan?

No Westboro Baptist Church? I’d have thought that this tribe of hateful bigots would be among Hogshit’s favorites!

No Scientology???

119

Oh, I dunno. The free exercise clause of the First Amendment of the US Constitution? It’s hard to exercise your religion when there are no chaplains for it if they are needed.

Speaking as an agnostic you’re okay with someone asked to risk their life for this country and just be tossed aside when they kick it?

How about we don’t feed them as well? Nothing in the Constitution says you’re owed a meal.

120

Already covered in

Bill, the Galactic Hero

After Sunday drill at the end of their second week he stayed to talk to First Class Spleen instead of joining the others in their tottering run towards the mess hall. “I have a problem, sir…”

“You ain’t the only one, but one shot cures it and you ain’t a man until you’ve had it.”

“It’s not that kind of a problem. I’d like to…see the…chaplain…”

Spleen turned white and sank back against the bulkhead. “Now I heard everything,” he said weakly. “Get down to chow and if you don’t tell anyone about this I won’t either.”

Bill blushed. “I’m sorry about this, First Class Spleen, but I can’t help it. It’s not my fault I have to see him, it could have happened to anyone…” His voice trailed away and he looked down at his feet, rubbing one boot against another.

The silence stretched out until Spleen finally spoke, but all the comradeliness was gone from his voice. “All right, trooper — if that’s the way you want it. But I hope none of the rest of the boys hear about it. Skip chow and get up there now — here’s a pass.” He scrawled on a scrap of paper then threw it contemptuously to the floor, turning and walking away as Bill bent humbly to pick it up.

Bill went down dropchutes, along corridors, through passageways and up ladders. In the ship’s directory the chaplain was listed as being in compartment 362-B on the 89th deck and Bill finally found this, a plain metal door set with rivets. He raised his hand to knock while sweat stood out in great beads from his face and his throat was dry. His knuckles boomed hollowly on the panel and after an endless period a muffled voice sounded from the other side. “Yeah, yeah — c’mon in — it’s open.”

Bill stepped through and snapped to attention when he saw the officer behind the single desk that almost filled the tiny room. The officer, a fourth lieutenant, though still young was balding rapidly. There were black circles under his eyes and he needed a shave. His tie was knotted crookedly and badly crumpled. He continued to scratch among the stacks of paper that littered the desk, picking them up, changing piles with them, scrawling notes on some and throwing others into an overflowing wastebasket. When he moved one of the stacks Bill saw a sign on the desk that read LAUNDRY OFFICER. “Excuse me, sir,” he said, “but I am in the wrong office. I was looking for the chaplain.”

“This is the chaplain’s office but he’s not on duty until 1300 hours, which is, as someone even as stupid looking as you can tell, is in fifteen minutes more.”

“Thank you, sir, I’ll come back…” Bill slid towards the door.

“You’ll stay and work.” The officer raised bloodshot eyeballs and cackled evilly. “I got you. You can sort the hanky reports. I’ve lost 600 jockstraps and they may be in there. You think it’s easy to be a laundry officer?” He snivelled with self-pity and pushed a tottering stack of papers over to Bill who began to sort through them. Long before he was finished the buzzer sounded that ended the watch.

“I knew it!” the officer sobbed hopelessly. “This job will never end, instead it gets worse and worse. And you think you got problems!” He reached out an unsteady finger and flipped the sign on his desk over. It read CHAPLAIN on the other side. Then he grabbed the end of his necktie and pulled it back hard over his right shoulder. The necktie was fastened to his collar and the collar was set into ball bearings that rolled smoothly in a track fixed to his shirt. There was a slight whirring sound as the collar rotated, then the necktie was hanging out of sight down his back and his collar was now on backwards, showing white and smooth and cool to the front. The chaplain steepled his fingers before him, lowered his eyes and smiled sweetly. “How may I help you my son?”

“I thought you were the laundry officer.” Bill said, taken aback.

“I am, my son, but that is just one of the burdens that must fall upon my shoulders. There is little call for a chaplain in these troubled times, but much call for a laundry officer. I do my best to serve.” He bent his head, humbly.

“But — which are you? A chaplain who is a part time laundry officer, or a laundry officer who is a part time chaplain?”

“That is a mystery, my son. There are some things that it is best not to know. But I see you are troubled. May I ask if you are of the faith?”

“Which faith?”

“That’s what I’m asking you!” the chaplain snapped, and for a moment the Old laundry Officer peeped through. “How can I help you if I do not know what your religion is?”

“Fundamentalist Zoroastrian.” The chaplain took a plastic covered sheet from a drawer and ran his finger down it. “Z…Z…Zen…Zodomite…Zoroastrian, Reformed Fundamentalist, is that the one?”

“Yes sir.”

“Well, should be no trouble with this my son…21 52 05…” He quickly dialled the number on a control plate set into the desk, then, with a grand gesture and an evangelistic gleam in his eye, he swept all the laundry papers to the floor. Hidden machinery hummed briefly, a portion of the desk top dropped away and reappeared a moment later bearing a black plastic box decorated with golden bulls, rampant. “Be with you in a second,” the chaplain said, opening the box. First he unrolled a length of white cloth sewn with more golden bulls and draped this around his neck. He placed a thick, leather-bound book next to the box, then on the closed lid set two metal bulls with hollowed out backs. Into one of them he poured distilled water from a plastic flask and into the other sweet oil, which he ignited. Bill watched these
familiar arrangements with growing happiness.

“It’s very lucky,” Bill said, “that you are a Zoroastrian. It makes it easier to talk to you.”

“No luck involved my son, just intelligent planning.” The chaplain dropped some powdered Haoma into the flame and Bill’s nose twitched as the drugged incense filled the room. “By the grace of Ahura Mazdah I am an anointed priest of Zoroaster. By Allah’s will a faithful Muezzin of Islam, through Yahweh’s intercession a circumcised rabbi, and so forth.”

His benign face broke into a savage snarl. “And also because of an officer shortage I am the damned laundry officer.” His face cleared. “But now, you must tell me your problem…”