# Heh. Moussaoui on day five: "This isn't as much fun as I thought it might be..." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2006, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034 "2006-05-09T06:24:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/41 "2006-05-09T20:24:40Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Still, let’s not get too giddy. Let the poor bloke revel undisturbed in his new delusions, but (strictly _entre nous_) we must know better then to let him have a new trial. Our justice system is far from perfect. Much remains to be done. Poor chap came within three (3) votes from Death Penalty. Next time, he might not be that lucky. What if next time he gets it? Imagine what that might do to his newly aquired faith in America? Most importantly, can we afford that? I mean, we have too few true friends left in the world as it is. Apparently, you missed the fact that this guy WANTS the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![misterdls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@misterdls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterdls)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/42 "2006-05-09T20:34:25Z")
Not that I am particularly worried about it, but does anybody think Moussaoui may become the object of some “we will release these hostages when our brother Zacarias is released” plot by al-Qaida or some other group? Have they done this kind of thing before? ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/43 "2006-05-09T20:42:16Z")
So, are the guards calling him “Zack” or “Moose”? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/44 "2006-05-09T20:42:20Z")
> [@misterdls](#): > > Not that I am particularly worried about it, but does anybody think Moussaoui may become the object of some “we will release these hostages when our brother Zacarias is released” plot by al-Qaida or some other group? Have they done this kind of thing before? Purely in my observation, I feel whatever-group will take the hostages anyway, and _then_ go looking for someone they want released, no matter how unlikely (e.g. “all prisoners in Iraq”). ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/45 "2006-05-09T20:45:37Z")
I wonder how he will feel on “All you can eat” Spam night ? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/46 "2006-05-09T20:59:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Apparently, you missed the fact that this guy WANTS the death penalty. Wanted. He changed his mind. Unfortunately for him, there are no do-overs when you waive your right to a trial. > [@misterdls](#): > > Not that I am particularly worried about it, but does anybody think Moussaoui may become the object of some “we will release these hostages when our brother Zacarias is released” plot by al-Qaida or some other group? Judging from the testimonies of the al-Qaida prisoners in Gitmo, it doesn’t sound like they’d want him back, or even wanted him in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/47 "2006-05-09T21:06:53Z")
> [@misterdls](#): > > Not that I am particularly worried about it, but does anybody think Moussaoui may become the object of some “we will release these hostages when our brother Zacarias is released” plot by al-Qaida or some other group? I’d say it’s about as likely as the Surete trying to kidnap Inspector Clouseau. > [@](#): > > Have they done this kind of thing before? The truth is that Moussaoui - if we insist on believing he has any use or interest to anyone at all - won’t even be the most useful or dangerous Al Qaeda terrorist at that Supermax facility. Ramzi Yousef is in there. And so is Omar Abdel-Rahman - I think one terrorist group did demand his release at one point - and Moose’s pal :rolleyes: Richard Reid. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/48 "2006-05-09T23:11:24Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m fairly certain that if a sentence is adjudged on a particular day and there is no continuance of bail, then the prisoner begins serving the sentence on the same day as it was adjudged. In the case of an ordinary, finite sentence, like three years for forgery, the sentence clock starts ticking down from the first day the defendant is in custody. In other words, at the time of sentencing, he gets credit for time served. Naturally, if he was free on bail pending the verdict, then he doesn’t get credit for that time. None of this would seem to apply in a case of life without parole. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/49 "2006-05-09T23:29:57Z")
I considered the bit about credit for time served but I guess that’s just a matter of perspective. Either you say the sentence began before the sentencing or you just say that the sentence is reduced by the amount of time which the prisoner was already held in custody. As you say, though, it’s merely academic in the case of a sentence of life without parole. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/50 "2006-05-09T23:47:15Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Well technically he was convicted. Granted the conviction is based on a plea of guilty not a jury finding of guilt, but it is still considered a conviction. > > The typical wording by a judge is “Based on your plea, I find you guilty and sentence you to furthermore based on this conviction you may not [Y] (Y could be own a fire arm, go near a school enter the country etc.)” > > What I am saying is I don’t see the point of your nitpick. It wasn’t meant to be a nitpick. I just meant that, since **Happy Clam** is in the UK, it might not have been clear that he pled guilty and the trial was just about whether or not he’d get death. I thought it might’ve come across in Europe that he had pled not guilty and we were first trying him on that plea. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/51 "2006-05-10T17:04:46Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But what _flavor_ pie? Such are the things schisms are made of. Because if it’s blueberry I’m gonna have to call you a heretic. Cherry. DUH. ow! quit hitting me! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/52 "2006-05-10T17:15:22Z")
But now for a serious question – a hijack, but still serious. Are supermax prisoners allowed books? Only some are allowed televisions, and they’re 13-inch black and whites, so I’m guessing not. If no books, it sounds utterly dreadful to me. If they get books, it’s only mostly horrible. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/53 "2006-05-10T17:25:25Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > Wanted. He changed his mind. Unfortunately for him, there are no do-overs when you waive your right to a trial. As far as I know, he never changed his mind about his desire for the death penalty. From the stories I’ve read, it only seems as though he changed his mind about his plea, but only after he realized he wasn’t going to be sentenced to death. Maybe I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/54 "2006-05-10T18:23:32Z")
The way I read his comments, Moussaoui is claiming that he expected to be subjected to a show-trial, with a predetermined outcome of conviction, condemnation and execution. If this is accurate, his guilty plea could be construed as an attempt to deny the “Great Satanists” the spectacle. AIUI, the consensus among the jury members was that they themselves did not believe he was deliberately bucking for martyrdom. One leap of faith in the American judicial system would have saved him, if not the ultimate outcome, at least the chagrin associated with not having even tried to look out for his own best interests. As it’s likely that he affirmed, prior to his guilty plea being accepted, that he was waiving his right to appeal the conviction, I’m comfortable with this outcome. Oh, and the [nebbishy guy from SNL](http://www.murrayinthemorning.com/photo_galleries/20040311_kazurinsky/tim_talking.jpg) is probably in the pokey for impersonating [Crispin Glover.](http://www.movie-gazette.com/directory/img/crispin+glover.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![username\_taken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c0e974/32.png) [@username\_taken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/username_taken)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/55 "2006-05-10T20:03:56Z")
You know, Moussaoui should be happy. He now gets to spend his life praying to his God, and without any interruption! ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/56 "2006-05-10T20:09:51Z")
> [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > If no books, it sounds utterly dreadful to me. I think the “utterly dreadful” aspect is supposed to be what gives would be criminals pause so they don’t commit the crime. I’d really like to rob a bank and buy a pound of coke, it’s the whole 40 “utterly dreadful” years in prison thing that keeps me from acting out. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/57 "2006-05-10T20:59:01Z")
As an aside, [here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/cartoonsandvideos/toles_main.html?name=Toles&date=05052006) is my favorite take on the “72 virgins” question. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/58 "2006-05-11T18:48:14Z")
To quote Nelson Muntz… “Ha-Haa!” sucks to be you, Moussy… the menu for the remainder of your sentence; ham. sausage, bacon, and Spam ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/59 "2006-05-11T18:59:23Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > To quote Nelson Muntz… > > “Ha-Haa!” > > sucks to be you, Moussy… > > the menu for the remainder of your sentence; ham. sausage, bacon, and Spam Spam? No way. You don’t want to leave any grounds for a “cruel and unusual” appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034/60 "2006-05-11T20:58:38Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The way I read his comments, Moussaoui is claiming that he expected to be subjected to a show-trial, with a predetermined outcome of conviction, condemnation and execution. Of course, he’s not the only one who expected that. Now that I think about it, he’s also not the only one who’s complaining that he didn’t get it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heh-moussaoui-on-day-five-this-isnt-as-much-fun-as-i-thought-it-might-be/356034.md?page=2)