# Heinlein juveniles: how well do they hold up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254 "2020-05-21T18:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/21 "2020-05-22T16:06:30Z")
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**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/22 "2020-05-22T17:04:46Z")
> [@Mavis\_Topholese](#): > > I devoured those Heinlein juvies as a juvenile and still haul them out on occasion, and they hold up pretty well, I think. I have a soft spot for “Have Space Suit, Will Travel.” > > We got Boy’s Life at the house when their comic strip serialization of “Between Planets” was running -with artwork by Frank “Apartment 3-G” Bolle - and they got past Mars & Venus being hostile hell-hole environments by moving the entire story to the Proxmia Centauri star system, which may have eliminated some scientific inaccuracies, but didn’t help the narrative flow much. As I noted in a recent thread, that’s the dodge people have used when re-telling stories from the 40s and 50s – take something set on “desert” Mars or “swampy” Venus and replace it with an extrasolar planet. That’s what Leight Brackett did with her Eric John Stark stories when she started writing new ones in the 1970s, and what Robert Sheckley did when he rewrote is 1950s story “The Humors” as the novel _Crompton Divided_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/23 "2020-05-22T19:23:08Z")
While _The Star Beast_ doesn’t have much in the way of dated science or technology, somehow the overall feel of the story seems a lot more rooted in the 1950s than for many of the other juvies. Though there’s nothing in particular I can put my finger on. And while there are some books that don’t fall on the Official List of Heinlein Juveniles, so far as I’m concerned, all of the stories with a teenaged or younger protagonist and with the sex and politics toned down to a level acceptable for middle-school libraries are “juvies”. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/24 "2020-05-22T19:35:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > While _The Star Beast_ doesn’t have much in the way of dated science or technology, somehow the overall feel of the story seems a lot more rooted in the 1950s than for many of the other juvies. Though there’s nothing in particular I can put my finger on. > > And while there are some books that don’t fall on the Official List of Heinlein Juveniles, so far as I’m concerned, all of the stories with a teenaged or younger protagonist and with the sex and politics toned down to a level acceptable for middle-school libraries are “juvies”. One of the things, to my mind, that pegs it in the early 1950s is the reference to “Pidgie Widgie”, the kids’ show that people had to go home and watch. Aside from the fact that such a thing might be a podcast or something on a streaming service these days, that you could watch any time, it’s become clear ro me that this was inspired by Bob Clampett’s puppet TV show _Time for Beany_, which was immensely popular with a lot of adults. > [@](#): > > Albert Einstein was a fan of the show. On one occasion, the physicist interrupted a high-level conference by announcing, “You will have to excuse me, gentlemen. It’s Time for Beany.”[5] Musician and composer Frank Zappa was also a fan,[6] as were Curly Howard, Groucho Marx and Brian Wilson.[citation needed] > **[Time for Beany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_for_Beany)** > > Time for Beany is an American children's television series, with puppets for characters, which was broadcast locally in Los Angeles starting on February 28, 1949, and nationally (by kinescope) by the improvised Paramount Television Network from 1950 to 1955. It was created by animator Bob Clampett, who later reused its main characters for the animated series Beany and Cecil. The show won three Emmy Awards for best children's show. > The principal characters were Beany, a plucky young boy who wears... Nothing quite like it has been around since. Bill Scott, who wrote for it, went on to Rocky and Bullwinhkle. MST3K, of course, was puppets and had an enthusiastic adult following. But this was a first, and was disproportionately popular and influential because of that. You could substitute “Time for Beany” for “Pidgie Widgie”, but trying to substitute “Mystery Science Theater 3000” just ain’t the same. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/25 "2020-06-22T16:27:54Z")
I think they still hold up pretty well as interesting, very readable sf adventures (and my teenage son agrees), but the absence of women cadets in _Space Cadet_, and the general Fifties stereotypical “heroic young guy/decorative gal pal” vibe in most of them, is hard to overlook these days. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/26 "2020-06-23T15:48:32Z")
_Tunnel in the Sky_ and _Citizen of the Galaxy_ are in my top-five list of Heinlein’s books. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/27 "2020-06-23T16:18:06Z")
They certainly hold up better than Asimov’s Lucky Starr juvenile series. I remember liking them as a kid, then when my son was the right age I tracked down a set of the books on eBay. He definitely didn’t like them. I tried re-reading the first one - ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/28 "2020-06-23T19:22:01Z")
I can believe that. I’ve never felt any desire to go back and reread the Lucky Star books, but I like to go back to Space Cadet, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254/29 "2020-06-24T00:51:56Z")
Yeah, Lucky Starr wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t anything special, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinlein-juveniles-how-well-do-they-hold-up/854254.md?page=1)