# Heinlein's character archetypes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474 "2010-11-21T21:24:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/1 "2010-11-21T21:24:40Z")
We’ve been discussing a bit about this in the [Starship Troopers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=585993) thread, but I think it deserves its own discussion. It’s sometimes claimed that all of Heinlein’s works have only three characters in them, those being Young Heinlein, Adult Heinlein, Old Heinlein, and Virginia (I somehow suspect that the originator of the claim didn’t know how to count). While this is certainly not true (there are way more characters than that in Heinlein’s books), he nonetheless did have a tendency to reuse some characters with different names. The archetypes I can think of off the top of my head: 1: The Boy Scout. Hero of most of the juvies, he’s trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, and all the rest. He may or may not be an official member of a Scouting organization, but the qualities are the same. It’s no coincidence that many of these characters debuted in _Boy’s Life_ magazine. Prominent examples include Bill Lermer (_Farmer in the Sky_) and Matt Dodson (_Space Cadet_). 2: The Jokester. Another younger character. Won’t let you down in a pinch, but refuses to ever take anything seriously. Never the protagonist, but often shows up as the Boy Scout’s wisecracking sidekick. Such characters show up in _Space Cadet_, _Tunnel in the Sky_, and _Red Planet_, among others (though I can’t remember their names off the top of my head). 3: The Spoiled Brat. A minor antagonist, who shows up in many different ages but only one maturity level. Believes that the world owes him (or her; the Spoiled Brat can be either sex) a living, and refuses to accept the math that shows why what they want isn’t possible. The FN bureaucrats in _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ and the colonists who give up on Ganymede in _Farmer in the Sky_ are examples. 4: The Scamp. Another youth, and usually a protagonist, but unlike the Boy Scout, doesn’t play by the rules, and in fact seems to delight in chaos for its own sake. Is likely to eventually grow into an Old Fart, if not hanged for horse-thieving first. Examples include young Hazel from _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_, Pollux and Castor from _The Rolling Stones_, and young Woody from _Time Enough for Love_. 5: The Old Fart. Older than dirt, and just as dirty. Has Been There and Done That, and is probably still Doing It (whatever It is). Always has a trick or two up his or her sleeve, and is generally regarded as a Bad Influence. Lazarus Long (_Time Enough for Love_ and Grandmother Hazel (_The Rolling Stones_ are the most prominent examples, as well as Lazarus’ grandfather. 6: The Engineer. Skilled with machines, and probably more comfortable with them than with humans. Always willing to face the facts, whatever the facts are. Seldom takes the lead in social situations, but takes things as they come. The most prominent examples are Manny in _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ and D. B. Davis in _The Door into Summer_. 7: The Pedant. Well-educated and in a respected position, this character has extensive views on politics and the Way Things Should Be, and is willing to spend several pages expounding on those views (whatever they may be). Usually an old man, but in at least one case (in the short story “Coventry”), a teenaged girl. Other examples include Jubal Harshaw (_Stranger in a Strange Land_), Prof. del la Paz (_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_), and Sgt. Zim (_Starship Troopers_). 8: The Alien Princess. Might easily be mistaken for a pet of the main human characters, but is actually a young member of some significant standing from a far more advanced race, and views the humans as pets. Has an immature, fun-loving worldview, and despite being referred to as “he” by the humans, is its species’ equivalent of a female, and talks with a girlish voice. Lummox (_The Star Beast_) and Willis (_Red Planet_) fit this archetype to a T, and Mike (_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_) also shows some of the same characteristics. I’m sure others can think of many more, and then there’s still plenty of Heinlein characters who don’t really have any equivalents (such as D. D. Harriman and Andy Libby). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/2 "2010-11-21T22:16:22Z")
I wouldn’t put Sgt. Zim in with the Pedants. That role was filled by Col. DuBois in _Starship Troopers._ I class Zim as a Role Model. This category can also include Rufo (_Glory Road_), Col. Baslim (Citizen of the Galaxy) Then there is The Convert. This character, if not the protagonist, is a secondary character who “defects” from their previous position/beliefs to aid the cause of the Protagonist(s). People like Ben Caxton and Becky Vessy (_Stranger_)and Justin Foote the 45th (_Time Enough For Love_). Let us not forget Cats. Pixel, Dr. Livingston I Presume, Petronius the Arbiter, Random Numbers and the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/3 "2010-11-21T22:27:52Z")
You’re missing the ‘Girl who knows best’ role model. Young women who are wise beyond their years and provide sometimes exasperated counsel to the hero. Elly from Starman Jones and Betty from The Star Beast would fill this role. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/4 "2010-11-21T22:31:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I wouldn’t put Sgt. Zim in with the Pedants. That role was filled by Col. DuBois in Starship Troopers. It’s possible I’m conflating them; it’s been a while since I’ve read _ST_. And I was considering putting in a category for The Cat, but decided that that one could wait for a few posts. While we’re at it, we could also include the Flatcats in that category: They didn’t have much individual personality, but what they had was undoubtedly feline. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/5 "2010-11-21T23:06:50Z")
When people talk about Heinlein archetypes, they refer only to the protagonists, not the secondary characters and sidekicks and cardboard villains. And, as I’ve been making a pet peeve of lately, when they say “all” they mean all major ones, not those in a few odd minor stories or before Heinlein got fully into his style. It’s a rule of thumb, not a cosmic law of the universe. I haven’t read the other thread, so I’m sorry if I’m missing something from there. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/6 "2010-11-21T23:48:48Z")
The Companion: the (male) hero’s female counterpart. Smart, competant, sophisticated, beautiful, libertine and sexually available to a fault. Examples include Margrethe (from _Job_) and Gwen Novak\* (from _The Cat Who Walks Through Walls_). - Which may make her the adult version of the female Scamp. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/7 "2010-11-21T23:58:57Z")
> [@](#): > > When people talk about Heinlein archetypes, they refer only to the protagonists, not the secondary characters and sidekicks and cardboard villains. OK, so cut out the Jokester and the Spoiled Brat. The rest all have main-character instances in multiple books. Plus, as mentioned before, the one-off major characters. Unless you’re hanging on the “except for a few odd stories”? Heinlein’s a science fiction writer; once you eliminate the odd stories there’s not much left. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/8 "2010-11-22T00:11:38Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > You’re missing the ‘Girl who knows best’ role model. Young women who are wise beyond their years and provide sometimes exasperated counsel to the hero. Elly from Starman Jones and Betty from The Star Beast would fill this role. Don’t forget PeeWee Reisfeld from “Have Spacesuit”, Ricky Gentry from “Door into Summer”, and Holly Jones from “Menace from Earth”. And Podkane. And Mary-Lou Martin. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/9 "2010-11-22T05:39:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Companion: the (male) hero’s female counterpart. Smart, competant, sophisticated, beautiful, libertine and sexually available to a fault. Examples include Margrethe (from _Job_) and Gwen Novak\* (from _The Cat Who Walks Through Walls_). Wyoh from TMIAHM is the poster-girl for this category. And whatever her name was from Glory Road. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/10 "2010-11-22T11:03:54Z")
The Heinlein Matron: Usually rich, spoiled and clueless, she walks on for a few paragraphs, says/does something funny/awful to her henpecked husband (often to make a point about obnoxious travellers) and is rarely heard from again. To wit “Herbert! I left my second-best hat at the station on Earth. _You_ distracted me by making me listen to that lecture on space-safety. You march right up to the front of this rocket and tell that captain to put on the brakes and turn this space-ship around _this instant_. Give them a piece of your mind, if necessary.” The exceptions to this are the wife of the President in _Stranger_ and whatshername (Van Vogel?) from “Jerry Was A Man”–both were started from the same seed and grew beyond the classic “Heinlein Matron” I think it’s largely a cultural thing-the domineering rich wife and the henpecked husband were a trope in '30s and '40s movies. As far as I know, Heinlein was the only major science fiction writer to use the archetype on a regular basis.\* \*I’m sure he thought it was funny (it often was) but he also used it to springboard into a science lecture. In the fake example above, the protagonist would have overheard it and either explained (or had explained to him or her) why you can’t just “put on the brakes” in zero-g. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/11 "2010-11-22T12:56:03Z")
Another example of the Heinlein Matron would be the first customer we see in the story “We Also Walk Dogs.” She was used to set up a contrast between the triviality of her problem and the more serious one that the agency handled right after hers. Plus she was definitely played for laughs and set the tone for a light-hearted story. The wife in “It’s Great to Be Back” was a less potent version of the Matron, but I think she still qualifies. She was more fleshed-out and less foolish than the typical Matron character, but she seems to be an adaption of the basic archetype. (guess who just re-read The Past Through Tomorrow?) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/12 "2010-11-22T20:46:58Z")
I was lumping those in with the Spoiled Brat. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/13 "2010-11-22T21:07:27Z")
I would put Jubal Harshaw in the Old Fart category in preference to the Pedant category – assuming there’s any need to choose. Kettle Belly (“Gulf,” _Friday_ – see [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=582444)), OTOH, is definitely a Pedant despite his overt OldFartiness. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/14 "2010-11-22T23:12:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Companion: the (male) hero’s female counterpart. Smart, competant, sophisticated, beautiful, libertine and sexually available to a fault. Examples include Margrethe (from _Job_) and Gwen Novak\* (from _The Cat Who Walks Through Walls_). > > - Which may make her the adult version of the female Scamp. But she’s really looking for the Right Man To Have Lots of Babies With. EVERY ONE of Heinlein’s female characters (except for Friday) over the age of about 16 is actually panting to have a dozen kids or more. Oh, she might be putting it off, or waiting for the right man to start reproducing with, but all of them (except Friday) want kids, and want lots of them. I can’t remember now, but I’m pretty sure that even Friday liked having kids in the group marriage she was in, plus of course she loved the child that she bore at the end of the book. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/15 "2010-11-23T00:28:11Z")
Wyoh and Friday are something of a pair, there, in that neither wants to have kids at first, due to psychological trauma, but once they get over that and become healthy, naturally they go back to the norm of wanting to have lots of babies. Though of course Friday is the book’s main character, not one of a handful of secondary characters like Wyoh is; she’s a lot more severely damaged; and their non-reproductive skill sets are completely different (though, like most Heinlein characters, they’re both extremely competent at what they do). So they’re still not just carbon-copies of each other. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/16 "2010-11-23T00:38:11Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I think it’s largely a cultural thing-the domineering rich wife and the henpecked husband were a trope in '30s and '40s movies. As far as I know, Heinlein was the only major science fiction writer to use the archetype on a regular basis.\* I always suspected it had something to do with his little-known first marriage (Leslyn was his second, and Ginny was the third). Was she the model for Grace Farnham and her ilk? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/17 "2010-11-23T04:20:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I was lumping those in with the Spoiled Brat. Oh, I see what you mean. Perhaps that archetype should be re-titled, since “brat” implies a child. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/18 "2010-11-23T21:47:51Z")
Like I said, “many ages but only one maturity level”. ---
**Author:** ![Sparrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Sparrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparrow)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/19 "2010-11-26T10:31:10Z")
What about the “pre pu-pubescent female that Our Hero has an unhealthy fascination with” - examples such as Ricky from Door into Summer and Dora from Time Enough for Love. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474/20 "2010-11-26T14:42:16Z")
Yeah, there’s got to be a kiddie / incest character type in there somewhere. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-character-archetypes/561474.md?page=2)