# Heinlein's "Door into Summer" questions (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303 "2008-11-12T04:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/21 "2008-11-12T17:41:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > also features a girl (the baby sister of the protagonist’s original intended) who meets the protagonist when she is a child and marries him when she grows up. Nitpick: Cousin. Not baby sister. ---
**Author:** ![Rattlehead02](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rattlehead02/32/3944_2.png) [@Rattlehead02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rattlehead02)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/22 "2008-11-12T18:13:09Z")
Re: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Being the first of his work I read, after I finished it I feared he couldn’t live up to it again. Manny and Mike have become 2 of my favorite characters ever. But as I started into Starship Troopers that fear was gone. Moon is my favorite, but the gap between 1st and 2nd isn’t hat great. I started Double Star on my way in to work today. So far so good! > [@](#): > > A vaguely creeped out feeling is just part of the ambiance that comes from reading Heinlein. Embrace it. How do you mean? In relation to Moon and Troopers anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/23 "2008-11-12T18:18:15Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Definitely get _Stranger in a Strange Land_, not to my mind the best but essential to understand what all the other fans are talking about 😃 > > Am I alone in really enjoying _Time Enough for Love_? I would recommend it but only after \*Methusalah’s Children \*. > > Possibly more important than which to read next is which not to read! I would suggest postponing his later novels: > > _I Will Fear No Evil > The Number of the Beast > Friday > The Cat Who Walks Through Walls > To Sail Beyond the Sunset_ > > They all have good points but they are not a taughtly plotted as the two you have read: TMiaHM and ST; and best left until the end. Or best not read at all. All the above date from the third, or “senile”, period of Heinlein’s writing. His juvie stuff is far far better. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/24 "2008-11-12T18:20:37Z")
There are three main female characters in _The Door Into Summer_. One is the hero’s ex fiancée, who is a complete and absolute shrew with no redeeming qualities and a irredeemable alcoholic. (Heinlein’s second wife Leslyn was an alcoholic when he divorced her.) The second is Jenny Sutton, a bubble-headed nudist. (Heinlein was a nudist; I’m not sure if his wives were, though I assume at least one was.) The third is Ricky. Not only is Dan taken with her at the preteen level, but she is in love with him and waits for the entire period he’s in cold sleep so she can marry him at the appropriate age. She is based on his third wife, Ginny, known as Rikki as a girl. Don’t forget that Dan’s invention is a household robot, which he builds because women are incapable of doing their own housekeeping properly. He never at any time consults a woman or goes into a real-life kitchen. He just knows how it should all work, and the world falls at his feet. Creepy is hardly the word for the portrayal of women in this book. Pathological is a better one. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/25 "2008-11-12T18:27:28Z")
> [@GildedLily](#): > > 1. Should I feel creeped out that Dan’s main objective eventually is to marry a girl he only knows as an 11 year old? And one who sees him as family? Sweetheart, that ain’t nothin’ compared to the creeped-out feeling you’re gonna get when you read _Time Enough For Love_. 'Nuff said. And I finally got around to reading _The Puppet Masters_ recently. It was the only one of the pre-1970ish Heinleins I hadn’t read. IMHO, it doesn’t hold up at all. And have any of you read _For Us, The Living_? I thought it was really interesting because you can see so many germs of ideas that were later expanded in his books and other writings. I can see why it was never published, though. As a novel, it sucks! (Note: don’t read this book unless you’re a serious Heinlein fan who’s read a large proportion of his other books.) My personal favorite Heinleins: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Starship Troopers, The Star Beast, and many of his “Future History” short stories. And Glory Road is just cool. ---
**Author:** ![History\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b19c9b/32.png) [@History\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/History_Geek)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/26 "2008-11-12T18:36:59Z")
I’ll second the recommendations for postponement made by **MarcusF** , and I’d add \*Time Enough for Love \*to that list. I personally have liked everything of Heinlein’s that I’ve read (which is nigh everything the man published), but if you are coming to his work through \*Starship Troopers \*and \*The Moon is a Harsh Mistress \* (my personal favorites), the later stuff might be a bit of a shock to the system, so to speak. As for what to read next, I would suggest his “Future History” collections of short stories, \*The Past Through Tomorrow \*and _Expanded Universe_. Or more of the Juveniles, which are all very good. I see someone has mentioned _Citizen of the Galaxy_, which I would say rounds out my personal Top 3. I listened to both of the Lloyd James readings and thought both were pretty good. Especially the way he voiced Manny and Mike - they both sounded the way I had imagined them. I was surprised that Stu LaJoie had a heavy French accent (despite the book clearly noting he was of French origin, and his surname); I’d always heard his voice with an English accent. ---
**Author:** ![Rattlehead02](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rattlehead02/32/3944_2.png) [@Rattlehead02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rattlehead02)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/27 "2008-11-12T18:41:46Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Don’t forget that Dan’s invention is a household robot, which he builds because women are incapable of doing their own housekeeping properly. He never at any time consults a woman or goes into a real-life kitchen. He just knows how it should all work, and the world falls at his feet. I took it as he invented the robot because he found household chores as a waste of a woman’s time, not because they were incapable. As for consulting a woman or going into a real life kitchen…it seems to me that in his 30+ years he’s seen enough kitchen work to know what all is involved. It’s not rocket science. And after all, that’s the point in having a robot do the work. It’s menial. I will agree that pathological is a good description of the females in the book though. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/28 "2008-11-12T18:44:18Z")
It is really worth finding his collections of Short Stories and Novellas. Mnay of them are great. I even love “Waldo and Magic Inc.” “All you Zombies” might be the must read of must reads for Heinlein. No one has ever done a better time paradox. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/29 "2008-11-12T19:02:21Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > _I Will Fear No Evil > The Number of the Beast > Friday > The Cat Who Walks Through Walls > To Sail Beyond the Sunset_ > > They all have good points but they are not a taughtly plotted as the two you have read: TMiaHM and ST; and best left until the end. _Friday_ is the best of this bunch. But you really need to have read the short story “Gulf” to get the most from this novel. The rest are definitely “lesser” works. ---
**Author:** ![Rattlehead02](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rattlehead02/32/3944_2.png) [@Rattlehead02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rattlehead02)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/30 "2008-11-12T19:07:38Z")
Well, I’ll definitely check out The Number of the Beast if only to see if it contains: Woe to you oh Earth and sea For the devil sends the beast with wrath because he knows the time is short Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast For it is a human number It’s number is six hundred and sixty six I left alone My mind was blank I needed time to get the memories from my mind /Iron Maiden ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/31 "2008-11-12T19:17:40Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > _Friday_ is the best of this bunch. But you really need to have read the short story “Gulf” to get the most from this novel. The rest are definitely “lesser” works. I like “Friday” and I enjoyed “I Will Fear No Evil” & “The Number of the Beast”. The last two (The Cat Who Walks Through Walls & To Sail Beyond the Sunset) are my least favorite works by RAH. “Gulf” is a fun story, I love Kettlebelly. Which Collection is that in, I think it includes “Jerry Was a Man”. “Assignment In Eternity” has both. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/32 "2008-11-12T19:33:08Z")
I loved _Number of the Beast_, but it is definitely an indulgent novel, not for the casual fan or novice to Heinlein. If RAH had gone out on _Friday_ instead of _Sunset_, it would have left a better taste in peoples mouths. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/33 "2008-11-12T19:39:56Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There are three main female characters in _The Door Into Summer_. Wow. This is about the only statement in your post I can agree with. > [@](#): > > One is the hero’s ex fiancée, who is a complete and absolute shrew with no redeeming qualities and a irredeemable alcoholic. (Heinlein’s second wife Leslyn was an alcoholic when he divorced her.) I think this facile analysis misses the point. Belle isn’t fairly described as either shrewish or alcoholic in the beginning of the book; she’s a cold-hearted, methodical, and clever criminal who contrives to steal away Dan’s company. Thirty years after the fact – yes, she’s lost her “keen edge” to an addiction to “Happiness,” which I agree is a pretty fair substitute for alcohol… but that was more of a post-script to the storyline. Belle was never admirable, but neither, for the critical parts of the story in which her character appears, was she shrewish or alcoholic. > [@](#): > > The second is Jenny Sutton, a bubble-headed nudist. (Heinlein was a nudist; I’m not sure if his wives were, though I assume at least one was.) I don’t remember anything about Jenny that particularly seemed “bubble-headed,” and neither was she particularly central to the story. She and her husband were indeed nudists. > [@](#): > > The third is Ricky. Not only is Dan taken with her at the preteen level, but she is in love with him and waits for the entire period he’s in cold sleep so she can marry him at the appropriate age. She is based on his third wife, Ginny, known as Rikki as a girl. Ricky was certainly in love with (or had a crush on) Dan at her young age; nowhere is there the slightest suggestion that he returned those feelings or acted even remotely inappropriately. And she doesn’t wait the entire period of Cold Sleep; she takes it herself when she turns 21 and is awakened to be with Dan. And because I’ve never heard the claim that Ginny, born Virginia Doris Gerstenfeld, was ever called “Rikki” as a child, I’m going to ask for a cite for this, one of the few claims you’ve made that is objectively verifiable. In _Tramp Royale_ he refers to her as an adult as “Ticky” - could that be the source of your confusion? > [@](#): > > Don’t forget that Dan’s invention is a household robot, which he builds because women are incapable of doing their own housekeeping properly. He never at any time consults a woman or goes into a real-life kitchen. He just knows how it should all work, and the world falls at his feet. Yes, Dan’s invention is a household robot. However, there’s no indication that he builds it because “women are incapable of doing their own housekeeping properly,” any more than the vacuum cleaner was invented because women were incapable of sweeping properly. In fact, Dan described the difficulty of programming the robot to wash dishes by characterizing it as far more judgement-necessary than “comparatively simple chores like building a wall or driving a truck.” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/34 "2008-11-12T22:21:57Z")
Adding to what Bricker said, it’s a mistake to assume that Danny is a particularly admirable or compenent character through much of the book. In the beginning, he’s a promising engineer, who is on the verge of creating a marketable product when he is conned out of his company by his fiancee Belle, who is really a quite competent and ruthless con artist, and his best (and apparently only) friend. Kicked into the future, Dan makes one friend, a fellow engineer, but is no more of a success than before. Only when he seizes on an unresolvable discrepancy (engineering designs that look like something he would have designed, and were signed by his own name), does he really get focused on taking definite action to straighten himself out. Belle only turns to alcohol when her con inexplicably fails, due to what is in effect, magic. Dan is drinking at the beginning of the book, and gets himself into trouble by drunkenly confronting Belle and Miles. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/35 "2008-11-12T22:32:24Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > In the beginning, he’s a promising engineer, who is on the verge of creating a marketable product when he is conned out of his company by his fiancee Belle, who is really a quite competent and ruthless con artist, and his best (and apparently only) friend. Even that betrayal is fairly laid much more at Belle’s feet than at Miles’. Recall when Belle injects Danny with the “zombie drug,” and explains to a surprised Miles that Danny will now do whatever she tells him to do, and won’t remember getting commanded to do it. > [@Paraphrased](#): > > “It works that well?” asked Miles. “I don’t believe it.” > > Belle looked at him oddly. “You should,” she said. > > “Huh? What do you mean?” > > “Never mind.” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/36 "2008-11-12T22:33:04Z")
And now, my real “Door into Summer” nitpicking. Throughout the book, there are no changes to the timeline - but… In the future, Dan reads the “recently defrosted” notices in the paper because he hopes to recognize a name and meet someone he knows from the old days. One night, he wakes up with the uneasy feeling that he’s missed something, and checks that last week’s worth of papers, finally noticing Rikki’s name (Fredricka Henke, I think) which leads to the rest of the plot. He goes back in time, and after inventing all the things he’s supposed to invent, he had himself frozen and set to awake the day before Rikki. So the papers Dan thoroughly examines that evening ought to have had a name Dan would recognize immediately - his own. It could be a subtle hint that changing the past is possible, but I suspect a mere (slight) mistake. I wish I could ask the man (or that I had asked him years ago) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/37 "2008-11-12T22:37:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Even that betrayal is fairly laid much more at Belle’s feet than at Miles’. Recall when Belle injects Danny with the “zombie drug,” and explains to a surprised Miles that Danny will now do whatever she tells him to do, and won’t remember getting commanded to do it. You’re right, of course. Heinlein rarely has villains on stage for very long, but Belle is one such case. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/38 "2008-11-12T23:22:07Z")
No love for _The Rolling Stones_? Which has nothing to do with the rock band, btw. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/39 "2008-11-13T00:01:53Z")
Psst! Post #14. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303/40 "2008-11-13T00:21:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And because I’ve never heard the claim that Ginny, born Virginia Doris Gerstenfeld, was ever called “Rikki” as a child, I’m going to ask for a cite for this, one of the few claims you’ve made that is objectively verifiable. In _Tramp Royale_ he refers to her as an adult as “Ticky” - could that be the source of your confusion? From Wiki’s Door Into Summer page: > [@](#): > > Frederica Virginia “Ricky” Heinicke is physically an 11-year-old girl but emotionally almost adult. We see little enough of her in the novel, but she is certainly the object of Dan’s quest. Like all Heinlein’s heroines from this period, she is an intelligent red-head, and clearly modeled on Virginia Heinlein, even having a version of her name and her childhood nickname, Rikki-Tikki-Tavi. Ricky’s last name is that of her paternal grandmother in Brawley, California, although in the beginning she uses “Gentry.” This causes Dan difficulty in locating her, as he only knows her by that name. Miles never formally adopted Ricky, so she is able to disappear into the household of her only living blood relative, preventing Belle and Miles from depriving her of Dan’s gift of Hired Girl stock. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heinleins-door-into-summer-questions-open-spoilers/472303.md?page=3)