# Helen Thomas Forcibly Retired **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299 "2010-06-07T17:06:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/361 "2010-06-11T02:48:55Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > 1. I was pointing out that it’s not a serious track for peace talks as it’s neither endorsed by Israel nor by Palestine, and it’s most often used as a back door, as discussed. I never claimed it was a serious track. > [@](#): > > 1. Your claim was not “I don’t know why you’re bringing it up with me” but that I was accusing you of advocating violence. Interesting that you can’t even admit you were wrong. Because you haven’t convinced me I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/362 "2010-06-11T03:06:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As for who’s living there now, Israel was founded sixty-two years ago. I’m going to assume that most of the people living there now were born there. And most of the people who are saying they want to go back are the children and grandchildren of the people who actually used to live there. Yes, 62 years ago. For 28 years of Helen’s life, Palistine was Palistine. For the next 20 years Israel was more commonly described as Palistine than Israel. Her age suggests that she’s keenly aware that the world really fucked up with allowing Jewish immigration into the region. There have been a lot of wars conflicts and genocide during her lifetime but I can’t think of any other conflict that continues so endlessly without any reasonable prospect of resolution. Forgive her if she wishes for a better past she remembers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/363 "2010-06-11T03:09:02Z")
Better past my ass. That sounds worse than what Thomas said. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/364 "2010-06-11T03:18:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because you haven’t convinced me I was wrong. You’re still unable to show me, anywhere, saying that you advocated violence. And yet you refuse to be “convinced” that even though I didn’t actually say it, that I didn’t say it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/365 "2010-06-11T03:23:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Better past my ass.. Tell that to the Palistinians. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/366 "2010-06-11T03:36:16Z")
Of course… the world[sup]tm[/sup] “really fucked up” by not instituting racist policies to keep Jews out. The fuckup wasn’t the niggling campaign to exterminate the Jews and prevent the formation of Israel, it was not putting up a “No Jews Allowed!” sign. Obviously she wishes for a better past, when Palestine was an administrative district or a Mandate territory and not a state, and Jews had been immigrating for decades but there were racist objections to their presence that should have been upheld, and the nominal head of Palestinian nationalism was allied with the Nazis in order to extend the German program of genocide to the region. Can’t we just go back to a simpler time? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/367 "2010-06-11T03:38:14Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You’re still unable to show me, anywhere, saying that you advocated violence. So when I said I would not have a problem with a one-state solution under peaceful and you said the one-state solution is a backdoor call for the destruction of Israel, you were making a general comment about the solution and nothing else. Yes? ---
**Author:** ![Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c37758/32.png) [@Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eugene_of_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/368 "2010-06-11T03:50:52Z")
Absolutely braindead stupid bitch. About time somebody put this hag out of her misery. Good grief! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/369 "2010-06-11T03:57:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > you said the one-state solution is a backdoor call for the destruction of Israel Actually, no, I didn’t. We’ve been through this. This is how the dance seems to go: -I point out that calls for a one state “solution” are not a serious resolution of the problem and serve as a back door method for calling for the end of the state of Israel. -You claim that I’m accusing you of advocating Israel’s destruction. -I point out that you’re the one who brought up destroying a country, presumably by military force. -You accuse me of lying and/or not reading your post. -I point out that, really, you were the first person to bring us destroying Israel, presumably by military force, and I was not. I elaborate and point out that it’s not a serious solution, neither side actually wants it, and it is simply a path to ending a sovereign nation and having it absorbed by a new entity. -You ramble on about “walls of text” and such. -Rinse and repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/370 "2010-06-11T05:00:14Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Actually, no, I didn’t. Are you sure? > [@Marley23](#): > > you said the one-state solution is a backdoor call for the destruction of Israel > [@FinnAgain](#): > > -I point out that calls for a one state “solution” are not a serious resolution of the problem and serve as a back door method for calling for the end of the state of Israel. That sounds a lot like what I just said you said unless you are making a distinction between “the destruction of Israel” and “the end of the state of Israel.” Are you making a distinction between those things? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/371 "2010-06-11T05:12:43Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Obviously she wishes for a better past, when Palestine was an administrative district or a Mandate territory and not a state, and Jews had been immigrating for decades but there were racist objections to their presence that should have been upheld, and the nominal head of Palestinian nationalism was allied with the Nazis in order to extend the German program of genocide to the region. Can’t we just go back to a simpler time? Think about it. No WW I, so no British mandate, no Hitler and all is peaceful on the Palistinian territory. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/372 "2010-06-11T05:39:25Z")
What possible connection does allowing Jewish immigration have to WWI ? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/373 "2010-06-11T12:04:06Z")
I’m keeping you boys alive here [/Christopher Walken]. All the while, ones you think your own are driving you to extinction via the gutter. [Ship of Fools](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/06/a-ship-of-fools-ctd.html) > [@](#): > > They’re there for ever, if they can manage it. And when your policy is ultimately governed by religious diktat and fathomless paranoia, then there is no reason to wonder why it’s self-defeating. It doesn’t matter if it’s self-defeating. It’s your religious and sacred duty to stay put and expand; and psychologically impossible to withdraw. > > This, to echo Matt, is obviously more than a tactical error, like Tora Bora. It’s a strategic goal. AIPAC is just waiting for president Palin to back an acceleration of settlements and a full-scale war, subsidized by Americans, against Iran. > > Like Matt, I’m tired of pretending that the West Bank settlements aren’t Israeli policy when they could stop them any time - and won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/374 "2010-06-11T13:21:21Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > All the while, ones you think your own are driving you to extinction via the gutter. It’d make a better impression if you wipe the anticipatory drool off your chin. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/375 "2010-06-11T15:26:47Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > **Finn** -so, if I understand you correctly, you are in favor of a 2 state solution, but find a single state non-viable? > > It never occurred to me to have Israel abolished–like I said, that ship has sailed. I think what Finn is saying is that a “single state solution” = “destroying Israel” because israel will no longer be a Jewish state. If Israel wanted to be a large minority in a Pelestinian state, they wouldn’t have needed the state of Israel to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/376 "2010-06-11T15:31:14Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > They worship the same God, a God that dictates they should treat their enemies like brothers, a peace loving God. You sure about that? Because i think youa re projecting the Chirstian version of God onto the Jewish and Muslim versions of God. The jewish and muslim versions of God seems to be much less of a hippie than the Jesus version of God. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/377 "2010-06-11T15:43:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > A problem on this board is general reluctance to acknowledge such bigotry unless you have a flaming Stormfronter stomping around yelling “I HATE JEWS!” We have none such here (they’d wind up banned in relatively short order), but our obvious cases like **ivan astikov** and **Sevastopol** and others over the years have been able to spew for long periods without getting consistently called on their garbage. The lower-level bigots are even safer from general condemnation and marginalization. Is any critic of israel a bigot (or varying intensity)? > [@](#): > > This would never happen if equivalent bigotry was directed at African-Americans (just as Helen Thomas’ defenders would have shrunk to near zero if she’d urged all American blacks to go back to Africa). Just one of the pecularities of how bigotry is viewed here. And if blacks in America had staged a revolution that successfully shoved most of the rest of the country into refugee camps in Rhode Island, engaged in military excursions into those refugee camps and blockaded Rhode Island to prevent them from getting grubby paws on coriander, confiscated all the land that was no longer occupied because the owners were now in refugee camps in Rhode Island, etc. then you would have a good point. But seeing as thats not the case… > [@](#): > > Speaking of doing “disservice” to a cause - if we could stop making excuses for and overlooking the anti-Semites who’ve glommed on to Middle East issues, the outlook for a just settlement and peace would be greatly enhanced. And the inability to view criticism of israel as anything but bigotry (of varying intensities), the outlook for a just settlement and peace would also be enhanced. BTW, I think part of the problem is that there may be irreconcilable differences in what the parties consider just. The Israeli position on just settlement these days too frequently boils down to “they should be grateful to get what we give them” or “they can have some of what they want after we get all of what we want” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/378 "2010-06-11T16:44:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is any critic of israel a bigot (or varying intensity)? Reread my post. Read all the threads on Israel/the Mideast that have appeared on the Dope for the past ten years or so, paying attention to the great rarity of any critic being accused of bigotry. Get back to me once you’ve done that. It should only take you a few months. I’ll pass on your remarks re American blacks, as they’re so incoherent that no response is appropriate. The point you miss is that bigotry should not be tolerated against any group. Pointing out that self-evident truth does not make you a victim in any way, shape or form. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/379 "2010-06-11T17:13:47Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Actually, it’s neither. You’re being stupid, Marley. Between “you brought that up” and “you are advocating for that.” … > > Glad you felt safe to show your true colors, at least. What does that mean? What true colors are being shown? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/380 "2010-06-11T17:18:47Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > So, as I said, you’re prejudiced when it comes to me and your (rather distorted) views how I post have lead you to imagine claims that you had argued for violence against Israel, which you won’t retract even now that you were shown to be wrong. Shame, really. I guess marley can’t win for losing. I posted a thread based entirely on the premise that Marley treated you preferentially relative to other posters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299.md?page=20)