# Helen Thomas Forcibly Retired **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299 "2010-06-07T17:06:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/61 "2010-06-07T20:41:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So you think she wants Israeli Muslims to get out of the country and go back to their homelands, such as Germany, Poland, and the U.S.? It’s obvious from context that she was talking about any non-indigeonous occupyers at all. She wasn’t ranting about Jews, but about racial entitlement. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/62 "2010-06-07T20:41:23Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It wasn’t “everyone” in a general sense. It was “everyone in this thread” and I am one of the fewer than twelve or so people in the thread to that point. Whatever you would like to think, you are welcome to it. You certainly were on the non-equating side of the argument before I posted and seemed to switch afterwords, specifically post 23. So while I was over inclusive in my use of “everyone” before your post #23 and obviously overused the word “everyone”, your post #23 included you in the group. I really think that your nitpicking on “everyone” is bizarre, but maybe you are one of those people who try to distract that way. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/63 "2010-06-07T20:42:21Z")
I think all Minnesotans should go back to Norway. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/64 "2010-06-07T20:43:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s not an equivalent. The equivalent would be with saying that white people should get out of South Africa. Not exactly - many white South Africans have roots there going back hundreds of years. The same is not necessarily true of Israeli Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/65 "2010-06-07T20:43:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is she the only one in that group who is not actually a reporter anymore? She’s been a columnist (not a news reporter) for some time now. If she was the only one, then she should have excused herself long before this. Good question. [The White House Correspondents Association put out a statement about that today.](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/06/gibbs-helen-thomas-remarks-off.html) > [@WHCA](#): > > But the incident does revive the issue of whether it is appropriate for an opinion columnist to have a front row seat in the WH briefing room. That is an issue under the jurisdiction of this board. We are actively seeking input from our association members on this important matter, and we have scheduled a special meeting of the WHCA board on Thursday to decide on the seating issue. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/66 "2010-06-07T20:46:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Israelis. … who are also a distinct ethnic group. We’re not transplanted American Jews - we have our own culture, language, history and beliefs that we share with no-one else in the world. I wish people would finally understand that. Speaking out against Israelis (not Jews) as a whole is as much racism as, say, speaking out against the French. And we are indigenous to this country. We became indigenous again within a relatively short time, that’s true, but we’re still as indigenous as anyone in the world. Indigenous is a state of mind. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/67 "2010-06-07T20:46:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s a crap objection. She says “they” should get out of Palestine. Who do you think she’s talking about? How is it a gotcha if you ask someone to elaborate on their views and they insist on saying something stupid? And that is a crap analysis of the objection. The questioner pulled a bait and switch substituting “Israel” for “Jew”. That is a “assumes facts not in evidence” and it would be impossible to find a better example of one. It would be a valid objection if pulled on person in their prime. You think that is a crap objection when pulled on a woman who is 89 who has had a few drinks at a dinner? It’s fucking elder abuse. She says who should get out of Palesting “Israel”. Why do you pretend otherwise? Changing definitions/semantics in mid-conversation is objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/68 "2010-06-07T20:51:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > … who are also a distinct ethnic group. We’re not transplanted American Jews - we have our own culture, language, history and beliefs that we share with no-one else in the world. I wish people would finally understand that. > > Speaking out against Israelis (not Jews) as a whole is as much racism as, say, speaking out against the French. > > And we are indigenous to this country. We became indigenous again within a relatively short time, that’s true, but we’re still as indigenous as anyone in the world. Indigenous is a state of mind. Please enlighten us on Israelis being a distinct ethnic group. I was unaware of that and would like a citation. When I speak out against Israelis, I am speaking out against a government and its people who include all voting members, even the dissenters. Is there an acceptable way to refer to that group critically without being racist? I was under the impression that Israelis referred to all citizens who voted, whether Jewish, Islamic, Arab, European, Ethiopian or whatever in origin. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/69 "2010-06-07T20:51:48Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > And that is a crap analysis of the objection. The questioner pulled a bait and switch substituting “Israel” for “Jew”. That is a “assumes facts not in evidence” and it would be impossible to find a better example of one. It would be a valid objection if pulled on person in their prime. You think that is a crap objection when pulled on a woman who is 89 who has had a few drinks at a dinner? It’s fucking elder abuse. > > She says who should get out of Palesting “Israel”. Why do you pretend otherwise? Changing definitions/semantics in mid-conversation is objectionable. So you are rationalizing in a way that not even she has. She said what she said, the reporter did not pull any Jedi mind tricks on her. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/70 "2010-06-07T20:52:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s obvious from context that she was talking about any non-indigeonous occupyers at all. She wasn’t ranting about Jews, but about racial entitlement. Maybe that’s what she meant, but it’s not obvious at all because she doesn’t say anything like it. When the guy asks her specifically about Jews, she confirms it and doesn’t say anything about any other group. And it seems to me that almost all the “non-indigenous occupiers” in Israel/Palestine would be Jews of American or European ancestry. By definition it excludes Arabs, right? I’m sure non-Jews have emigrated to Israel but by comparison I doubt there are a whole lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/71 "2010-06-07T20:54:26Z")
Maybe Helen Thomas should lead by example and go “back” to Lebanon. Filthy American occupier! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/72 "2010-06-07T20:54:48Z")
Jews, yes, but their ethnicity is incidental. Their ethnicity is not what she takes issue with. Her objection is completely political, not racial. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/73 "2010-06-07T20:56:55Z")
She doesn’t know to object to it? Maybe that is the reason. If you tried that in a courtroom and didn’t back down you would be spending the night in jail. It is a bullshit rhetorical move and it needs to be called. Her ultimate answer may or may not have been different if the reporter hadn’t done it, but having been an editor for a year and having been a volunteer judge on numerous occasions, I would dress down the reporter for doing it and sustain an objection to it if done in a courtroom. Israelis and Jews are not coextensive. I am of half Jewish ancestry. (At reunions the Jewish sides of the family do not discuss Israel). I am not even slightly Israeli. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/74 "2010-06-07T20:57:19Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > And that is a crap analysis of the objection. The questioner pulled a bait and switch substituting “Israel” for “Jew”. That is a “assumes facts not in evidence” and it would be impossible to find a better example of one. It would be a valid objection if pulled on person in their prime. You think that is a crap objection when pulled on a woman who is 89 who has had a few drinks at a dinner? It’s fucking elder abuse. > > She says who should get out of Palesting “Israel”. Why do you pretend otherwise? Changing definitions/semantics in mid-conversation is objectionable. I agree with this although I wouldn’t go as far as calling it elder abuse. She’s an old confused woman (which is probably reason enough for her to retire) and the questioner bamboozled her. Despite the fact that she said some objectionable things, she was ambushed and it wasn’t really fair. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/75 "2010-06-07T20:58:02Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Please enlighten us on Israelis being a distinct ethnic group. I was unaware of that and would like a citation. When I speak out against Israelis, I am speaking out against a government and its people who include all voting members, even the dissenters. Is there an acceptable way to refer to that group critically without being racist? I was under the impression that Israelis referred to all citizens who voted, whether Jewish, Islamic, Arab, European, Ethiopian or whatever in origin. Define “ethnic group” is such a manner so that your definition does not cover Israeli Jews. Shared language? Check. Shared religion? Check. Shared history? Check. Genetic relations? Check. Cultural dynamism? Check and check. We certainly have little in common with other Jewish communites. As for criticising ethnic groups as a whole - is it permissable? I have no idea. I don’t bother keeping track of these things. I’ll say this: I don’t think Helen Thomas hates Jews, I think she hates Israelis. I also think that that’s just as bad. As an Israeli from birth, why should I care if someone hates me because of my birth, or because of my birth? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/76 "2010-06-07T20:59:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Jews, yes, but their ethnicity is incidental. Their ethnicity is not what she takes issue with. Her objection is completely political, not racial. Saying that an ethnic group should be exiled from its country is a racial declaration, not a political one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/77 "2010-06-07T21:02:09Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I agree with this although I wouldn’t go as far as calling it elder abuse. She’s an old confused woman (which is probably reason enough for her to retire) and the questioner bamboozled her. Despite the fact that she said some objectionable things, she was ambushed and it wasn’t really fair. We agree almost completely on this statement. I don’t know how confused she is. I do know that everyone at 89 is mentally slower than when they were younger (if not dead for years already!). But not necessarily mentally incompetent. I object to the “go back to Poland or Germany part”. I do not object to the come to the US part. Was she ambushed? Absolutely. Did she say what she did? Absolutely. Would she have said it differently if it had not been an abusive question? We will not know. It was beyond a “gotcha” question, and was actually abusive of her by doing that switch. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/78 "2010-06-07T21:02:17Z")
She’s saying that people who are (by her lights) invaders should be expelled. Their ethnicity is neither here nor there. Whatever you think of the sentiment (which I’m sure that even she knows is impractical and unreasonable at this point), it’s still a political sentiment, not a racial one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/79 "2010-06-07T21:09:36Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The questioner pulled a bait and switch substituting “Israel” for “Jew”. Ah, the internet: where everything is a clever trick no matter how obvious it is. Thomas has been interviewing people for something like 60 years, but you’re asking me to believe she’s so stupid she didn’t notice this subtle manipulation. I’ll give her a little more credit. I’m not going to call her a Nazi bitch or anything but I don’t think she said anything she didn’t mean because she misunderstood the question. The interviewed asked her to elaborate on her answer _three freaking times_, and he even gives her a hint she’s said something offensive by saying “Ooooh. Any better comments?” He does not mention Jews until it’s obvious that’s who she was talking about. Unless you can think of some other group of people who might’ve immigrated to Israel from Germany and Poland. > [@](#): > > You think that is a crap objection when pulled on a woman who is 89 who has had a few drinks at a dinner? It’s fucking elder abuse. The excuses increase in lameness. She fucked up and said something stupid. Nobody made her do anything. > [@](#): > > She says who should get out of Palesting “Israel”. Who is Israel? How do you get a country out of another country and send “them” back to three other countries? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299/80 "2010-06-07T21:12:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Define “ethnic group” is such a manner so that your definition does not cover Israeli Jews. Shared language? Check. Shared religion? Check. Shared history? Check. Genetic relations? Check. Cultural dynamism? Check and check. We certainly have little in common with other Jewish communites. > > As for criticising ethnic groups as a whole - is it permissable? I have no idea. I don’t bother keeping track of these things. I’ll say this: I don’t think Helen Thomas hates Jews, I think she hates Israelis. I also think that that’s just as bad. As an Israeli from birth, why should I care if someone hates me because of my birth, or because of my birth? I asked a serious question as to whether there is a scholarly ethnic group of “Israelis” and if you had a cite. I resent Israelis because of what they are doing to the Palestinians. I do not resent them because of their birth. I resent them because they have done all these things in the name of protecting Jews when I get the distinct feeling that they do not care about any Jews but themselves. I resent Israelis because their conduct whips up Anti-Semitic hatreds by people who do not make a distinction between Jews and Israelis. It puts me and my future generations in danger because what Hitler did can happen again. And you say for the first time that I have ever heard that Israelis are an ethnic group, where I have only seen before a political group. I am skeptical because I have seen before that you will use _ **any** _ rhetorical device or trick to do what you deem to be defending Israel. So I ask again, is this a scholarly studied ethnic group, or an ethnic group you have pulled out of your hat as an arguing device? Or something else. Cause I resent Israelis the political group, not an ethnic group. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/helen-thomas-forcibly-retired/542299.md?page=5)