Helicopter question

Factual Questions
21

That is a pretty flat statement. There is always other options. Just that some of them are very deadly. So who makes the call? The hospital administrator since we are are talking hospitals and choppers? The tower operator across town will call the hospital and see if it is okay? If he chooses to stop an pvt plane he then also has the authority to stop the hospitals plane.

In joint use airfields, how often do they refuse a declared emergency because it is a military or civilian plane calling?

I am the pilot, I have options, my passenger does not. Go there or they die. If I can get there, I will go there.

Having had a few problems over the years, some of which I put on the plane on purpose, which I deemed an emergency has never been a problem before I landed or after, nor was permission refused when I said I did not want to do what the controlling agency on the spot wanted me to do and said I was going to do this or that instead. Of course I always did safely execute my plan so there is that. If I crashed & died hitting a hospital, well, I would not care anyway. :smiley:

I would like to meet the authority of an open helipad who would refuse a landing of any chopper with an emergency on board that is described as serious. Would they ask if it happened in flight or were they picked up and then determine permission using that information? Is the operator a doctor to be able to say wither it is serious or not? How many doctors would allow themselves to be put on the grave yard rotation to man the pad radio in … say Boston?

If two choppers were exactly going to have the same ETA and they and both needed the exact same help that the pilots would not exchange info, (98 year old vs 15 year old) and then do what is needed. (Most of those pilots can get down near almost any hospital without an pad. “I’m setting down in the front lawn, send a gurney out here.” ) I want to meet them.

In some third world places I can see that kind of abuse of power but in very few places IMO.

The odds of dual need at the same time is so small, best be worried about a meteor which is more likely.

Time to land deplane and clear is really short when it needs to be, ask any military pilot.

I am sure some set of circumstances can be dreamed up that there could be actually a problem but that holds for everything there is.

Now that this has been presented, I have already thought about it and within the wildest possibilities of circumstance I have a plan for what I would do with a lot of different possible combinations and how & why I would be willing or not to carry them out. That is what alive and old or smart pilots do. Most of us really hate stuff we have not already though of, it is just not good piloting to be caught out that way.

If the hospitals aircraft forces the delay of a critical patient for a person with a simple broken leg they picked up at an accident and the serious person they were told of died within the time they messed around with the broken leg & preventing the help that could have been given in that time frame that would have saved the life as determined by independent doctors & autopsies, well, someone relatives are going be a might put out.

I am sure some letter of the law pilot some where would do it. I have never met one, especially in the life saving business. :smiley:

22

To recap:
[ul][li]You need the property-owner’s permission to land a helicopter on their property;[/li][li]The FARs provide an exemption to the rules, to the extent required to meet an emergency;[/li][li]The FARs specify an in-flight emergency;[/li][li]A pilot who deviates from the rules may face enforcement action from the FAA;[/li][li]A pilot who lands on private or municipal property may face enforcement action from local authorities.[/ul][/li]
Now there are practical issues. First of all, few people own a BK117, Huey, Black Hawk, or similar helicopter that is suited to medical evacuation. Some people own JetRangers or A-Stars, but they are 5- to 7-seaters that are typically not set up for medical evacuation. An owner-pilot is likely to have a Robinson R22 or R44 or a Hughes 269/Schweizer 300/Sikorsky S-300. There are many Bell 47s out there too, but you don’t see them as often. You also see some Hiller UH-12s (often used in agriculture), Enstroms, and Brantleys. These are basically 2-seaters (R44 has four seats), and some can squeeze in three passengers. If someone is injured, they’re going to have to sit upright in a seat. This may not be practical. Also, if the injured person loses consciousness, he may slump over the cyclic control. That would be bad. And there are weight limitations. A typical car would be more suited for transporting an injured person, though a personal helicopter might be marginally better than a motorcycle.

Unless you live in a dry climate, you’re probably going to keep your helicopter in a hangar. If you are in a dry climate, you still may keep it in a hangar. So you’ll leave the injured person sitting around while you put on the ground handling wheels and move the aircraft to a place where it can take off. You’ll need to do at least a minimal preflight inspection; for example, you need to make sure there’s no water in the fuel.

Starting a helicopter is not like starting a car. Mixture rich, crack the throttle, prime as necessary, master and alternator switches on, and then you can turn the key. Then you wait. Unlike a car that can be driven off immediately, an aircraft’s engine needs to come up to operating temperature. This will take a minute or two or more. Once the engine is warm, you can engage the rotors. This will take at least a minute, and may take longer. When the rotors are up to speed, you still can’t take off. Unless you want to risk an engine failure, you’ll need to do a ‘run-up’ to check the magnetos and carburettor heat. This is also when you check the sprag clutch (freewheeling unit) to make sure you can autorotate in case of an engine failure. And all this time the injured person might be draining blood. Oh, you did get him into the ship and secured him in the upright seated position, right?

Now you can take off and fly to assistance at 90 mph.

Or you can call 9-1-1. Emergency personnel may very well get there before you can take off, and they can render aid on the spot and on the way to the ER. Or they can render aid until an actual medivac helicopter can make the scene with its equipment and medical personnel.

You can come up with scenarios where transporting someone in your personal helicopter is the only practical option; but in reality, such situations would be exceedingly rare.

23

PM sent so as to not derail thread.

24

Yes, agreed with all of that. Ultimately if you ever find yourself doing something against the rules you need to be comfortable that you can back your decisions up.

25

What if the helipad is Batman ? :slight_smile:

26

Let me tackle this from the other way. (I’m an EMT in Greater Suburbia.)

  1. Most ERs are locked, meaning you can walk in to reception area 24/7 but need to enter a door code to get to patient treatment areas.
  2. Trauma centers tend to be in urban areas.
  3. Trauma centers have requirements of time from pad to trauma bay. This means the helipad is typically on the roof with a dedicated elevator.
  4. Some trauma centers park their helicopter on the pad when not in use.
    IF there’s already a helo on the pad, you can’t just land in the street in front of the hospital as most roads are two narrow in a city.

IF the stairs & or elevator are locked down & controlled from in the ER (remember, they don’t typically have people just showing up w/o their advanced knowledge), you may not be able to get into the ER & have nowhere to go as you’re 5, 6, 8, 15 stories up on top of a building.
ERs monitor medical frequencies, not aircraft ones. If you landed on the locked roof, you’d need to look up the phone # to let them know you’re there to let you in. Chances are ATC doesn’t have the phone # either, if they’re busy, good luck getting them to play directory assistance for you.

  • If it’s a medical emergency (heart attack, stroke, etc.) you’re much better getting treatment started in the back of a wheeled ambulance sooner than you can get into the ER for all of the reasons for delay in getting underway that Johnny L.A. already pointed out.
    Our protocols were if it was 20 mins or less to trauma center, they were always driven, 20-30 mins - greay area, & over 30 mins, we could call for a med-evac. We rarely flew anyone.
27

Unless Comm. Gordon put up the Bat Signal[sup]®[/sup], it won’t be ready. :smack: