# Hell -- hot or cold? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 13, 2017, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020 "2017-01-13T09:51:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/21 "2017-01-17T15:37:30Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > aldiboronti: > > I guess so. I imagine Mark must have himself been quoting Isaiah. Yeah, lot of OT quotes in the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/22 "2017-01-17T15:57:54Z")
_just bundle up my coffin cause it’s cold way down there, I hear that’s it’s cold way down there, yeah, crazy cold way down there._ -Blood, Sweat, and Tears ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/23 "2017-01-18T03:09:53Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It’s clear why Dante selected Judas as one of the three for Satan to munch on but I wondered about Brutus and Cassius, whether this reflected a particular veneration for Julius Caesar on Dante’s part or he was merely echoing something traditional. > > After a little googling I found [this page](http://danteworlds.laits.utexas.edu/textpopup/inf3402.html) which, given its UT provenance, I assume is accurate. > > I thought that interesting. I haven’t read Dante’s great work since I was in my youth, I must get back to it (and this time with a well-annotated edition.) > > BTW there’s an absolutely marvelous depiction of this scene in the 1980s Thames TV and NHK Japan co-production of Una Stravaganza dei Medici. The singing is simply heavenly too. For most of history after Constantine, there’s been a vague notion among most Christians that the Roman Empire is a key part of God’s plan. It was the reason Charlemagne was crowned, it was the reason the Holy Roman Empire lasted until Napoleon, that the first thing that Napoleon did after bringing it down was to create his own substitute, and that the Austrian Empire was created after the fall of Napoleon, and it was the reason that the Princes of Muscovy started calling themselves “Tsar” (Russian for “Caesar”) when the Byzantine Empire fell. Even today, it influences (for the worse) the relationship between Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church. A large part of medieval history was about striking the right balance between Emperor and Pope, and Dante was personally involved in that. But there is more to it than that. The very center of Hell is for those who have betrayed their benefactors. Caesar had forgiven Brutus and Cassius for previous acts against him. In terms of pure human morality (Hell is organized according to Aristotle; Purgatory according to the Christian Seven Deadly Sins), what they did was as low as you can go. (If it makes you feel any better, the Roman Republic had been a corrupt oligarchy for at least a hundred years; Caesar, who, though he came from old blood, was more or less a liberal, had the last, best chance of cleaning it up; the assassins represented the party of old money, gerrymandering, and “I got mine”.) ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/24 "2017-01-18T09:54:59Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > For most of history after Constantine, there’s been a vague notion among most Christians that the Roman Empire is a key part of God’s plan. … Thank you, that’s most illuminating. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/25 "2017-01-18T19:06:20Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > … > > 2.) “Hot” and “cold” are measures of the kinetic energy of matter. An empty universe would have no temperature. The “temperature” would be called Absolute Zero. I’m assuming it’s very cold as all the atoms stop moving. A theoretically unreachable temperature, but a temperature nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/26 "2017-01-18T19:26:05Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The “temperature” would be called Absolute Zero. I’m assuming it’s very cold as all the atoms stop moving. A theoretically unreachable temperature, but a temperature nonetheless. Would an “empty” universe have any atoms in it to measure? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/27 "2017-01-18T23:00:02Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Would an “empty” universe have any atoms in it to measure? Take away all matter and energy from space and you’re left with nothing, a vast emptiness. An emptiness of space that is cold, silent and completely dark, yet it “exists.” ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/28 "2017-01-19T22:25:28Z")
I keep trying to tell you people: “empty” space still has photons in it. Photons have temperature that can be measured. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/29 "2017-01-19T22:40:30Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > I keep trying to tell you people: “empty” space still has photons in it. Photons have temperature that can be measured. Not without destroying the emptiness of that space with your measuring devices. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/30 "2017-01-19T22:56:02Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > I keep trying to tell you people: “empty” space still has photons in it. Photons have temperature that can be measured. But why? We are not speaking of an empty region of the universe, we are talking about an entire empty universe. Photons are transient gauge bosons that are precipitated by the interactions of material particles. Without matter (including electrons), there would be no reason to expect gauge bosons of any sort to exist. In truth, without matter, I am not entirely certain that space itself would exist. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/31 "2017-01-19T23:41:39Z")
Also, for the fun of it we can assume that this empty universe would have a true vacuum instead of a false one. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/32 "2017-01-20T03:29:50Z")
Even if there aren’t already photons in this empty space, there will be as soon as we find ourselves in it and start emitting them. And we will continue to emit them for as long as we remain above absolute zero, and not receive any in return. Thus, by the Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics, we can in fact say that empty space has a temperature, and that temperature is zero. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/33 "2017-01-20T13:33:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if there aren’t already photons in this empty space, there will be as soon as we find ourselves in it and start emitting them. Ah, but according to II Gideon 4:23: “_And the lost soul shall be cast out into outer darkness, and it shall emittith not elecrtomagnetic radiation._” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Brother\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_brother_1/32/3513_2.png) [@Little\_Brother\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Brother_1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/34 "2017-01-20T20:49:49Z")
Here’s an imaginative alternative perspective to this question. I regret that I can’t attribute it! I remember the scenario, but not its author or source-- I want to say “Thomas Mann”, but that’s just a fragmentary memory, or pseudo-memory. That disclaimer made: this diabolically clever author conceived of Hell as a “heavenly bower” consisting of two chambers-- rooms-- connected by a long corridor. One chamber is bitterly freezing cold; the other is boiling hot. The condemned are placed in one room or the other. The occupants in the freezing chamber see the boiling hot chamber at the other end of the corridor, and believe it to be heaven; likewise, the roasting souls in the hot chamber spy the nice, cool chamber down the hallway, and _they_ believe that _it_ is heaven. So Hell consists of the damned eternally rushing to and fro between these extremes, perpetually hoping to find “salvation”, i.e. relief and comfort, in the other chamber. Don’t bother me with smarty-pants questions like “Wouldn’t the damned figure it out and just hang out in the connecting corridor?” Damned if I know! ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/35 "2017-01-24T16:13:20Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > In Dante, Hell has different flavors for different sinners, but the very lowest part, where the traitors go (not just political traitors, but all kinds), is a frozen lake. It’s made of Satan’s tears (he’s in it up to his waist), and it’s kept cold by the wind of Satan’s wings as he continually beats them in a vain attempt to escape, not understanding that it’s his efforts to fly away that are imprisoning him… > [@Little\_Brother\_1](#): > > … So Hell consists of the damned eternally rushing to and fro between these extremes, perpetually hoping to find “salvation”, i.e. relief and comfort, in the other chamber. > > Don’t bother me with smarty-pants questions like “Wouldn’t the damned figure it out and just hang out in the connecting corridor?” Damned if I know! In both cases, it seems that the damned are forever too dumb for their own good. There is also a modern parable, with folks perpetually hungry in damnation. There is plenty of meat, but it can only be taken with very specialized utensils. You can only hold such a utensil with one end, while the part that picks up the meat is at the far end. Very far. You cannot bring the meat to your mouth directly, because of the length of the utensil. I suppose if you try to manipulate it, to sliding the length by hand across the front of your face until the service end is near your mouth you invariably lose the meat. Anything you try results in the meat dropping. Naturally, everyone is crying pathetically, because they are starving in front of the troughs of meat, unable to eat any. (I guess it’s silly to ask why they don’t die of starvation.) The big joke here is that “heaven” is arranged the same way. The only difference is that the inhabitants have no trouble using the overly long utensils to _ **feed each other** _! (Keep in mind that this is definitely not my parable!) Once again, the damned ones are too stupid to realize an obvious way around the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020/36 "2017-01-24T16:25:24Z")
> [@Find\_Friends](#): > > Once again, the damned ones are too stupid to realize an obvious way around the problem. And the “saved” ones have to jump through arbitrary and inconvenient hoops to acquire necessary sustenance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-hot-or-cold/777020.md?page=1)