# Hell to be Remodeled with 10th Circle, aka The Westboro Baptist Suite **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963 "2008-01-10T08:11:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/1 "2008-01-10T08:11:19Z")
We’re all familiar with Phred Phelps and his troupe of nutters, along with their breed of hate visited on the families of those armed forces members who have been killed while serving the US in Iraq, and other locations. Most are also aware that a [Baltimore jury recently returned a damage award of $11M against Westboro Baptist Church](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/02/us/02protest.html) for the hurt and anguish inflicted by their hateful activities. Now this gets really crazy. A Parkville, MD (suburb of Baltimore) family was returning home from a visit with family in Michigan, when their minivan was struck head-on by a drunk driver, killing 5. The spin on this, according to Westboro Baptist folks, is that [God is putting a smackdown on the Baltimore community to retaliate for the $11M award](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-md.co.funeral09jan09,0,5177717.story). An all mighty, and all powerful, and all loving God, wouldn’t burn the judge and jury to a crisp, if He was adequately incensed, but would instead use some stray shlub with a propensity for booze to strike down, with furious anger, a family of ordinary folks minding their business on an Ohio interstate. Sorry-I can’t quite get my mind around that. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/2 "2008-01-10T11:09:05Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] Sorry-I can’t quite get my mind around that. [/QUOTE] I can’t get my mind around how an “all mighty, and all powerful, and all loving God” still lets Phelps’ crew hang around on this spinning rock. Good thing I’m not Christian, 'else I’d really worry a lot about that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/3 "2008-01-10T13:36:40Z")
[Ralph Wiggum voice] I think we should have free moral will **AND** be controlled by God like puppets. [/Ralph Wiggum] ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/4 "2008-01-10T14:14:07Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] An all mighty, and all powerful, and all loving God, wouldn’t burn the judge and jury to a crisp, if He was adequately incensed, but would instead use some stray shlub with a propensity for booze to strike down, with furious anger, a family of ordinary folks minding their business on an Ohio interstate. Sorry-I can’t quite get my mind around that. [/QUOTE] I suppose you have to be able to believe in some kind of terrorist deity for this to make sense. Remember, if Phred Phelps gets his way, the Almighty Terrorist wins. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/5 "2008-01-10T18:09:59Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] I suppose you have to be able to believe in some kind of terrorist deity for this to make sense. Remember, if Phred Phelps gets his way, the Almighty Terrorist wins. [/QUOTE] Zackly. If I was looking a for a deity, it wouldn’t be Phred’s. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/6 "2008-01-10T18:14:32Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] The spin on this, according to Westboro Baptist folks, is that [God is putting a smackdown on the Baltimore community to retaliate for the $11M award](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-md.co.funeral09jan09,0,5177717.story). An all mighty, and all powerful, and all loving God, wouldn’t burn the judge and jury to a crisp, if He was adequately incensed, but would instead use some stray shlub with a propensity for booze to strike down, with furious anger, a family of ordinary folks minding their business on an Ohio interstate. Sorry-I can’t quite get my mind around that. [/QUOTE] Of course it is. Anything to justify the nuttiness. Random events have significance, you know, especially if you _beeeelllieeeeeeeeve._ ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/7 "2008-01-10T18:23:17Z")
[QUOTE=Ice Wolf] I can’t get my mind around how an “all mighty, and all powerful, and all loving God” still lets Phelps’ crew hang around on this spinning rock. Good thing **I’m not Christian** , 'else I’d really worry a lot about that. [/QUOTE] [bolding mine] Fred ain’t one either ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/8 "2008-01-10T19:12:33Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] . . . strike down, with furious anger. . . [/QUOTE] Sorry, but now I can’t get _Pulp Fiction_ out of my head. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/9 "2008-01-10T19:47:42Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] An all mighty, and all powerful, and all loving God, wouldn’t burn the judge and jury to a crisp, if He was adequately incensed, but would instead use some stray shlub with a propensity for booze to strike down, with furious anger, a family of ordinary folks minding their business on an Ohio interstate. Sorry-I can’t quite get my mind around that. [/QUOTE] It works on the same principle as the idea that God chose to punish America for tolerating homosexuality by permitting the World Trade Center to be destroyed, and not, say, Greenwich Village. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/10 "2008-01-10T20:11:36Z")
I guess it’s my job to run my particular PSA in all these Phelps threads. Why do you guys think the Phelps church/family makes these sorts of announcements? They do it BECAUSE they know it makes their church an outcast. The cult leaders don’t want their members associating with anyone else, not even other standard-issue fundamentalist nutjobs, because theyn those members wouldn’t be under the total control of the church. There are only two paths if you’re born into this family. Either obey completely, or leave the family. And since you’ve known nothing but hatred and contempt from the outside world since the day you were born, leaving the church is impossibly difficult. Fred Phelps WANTS you to hate his children and grandchildren, because if everyone hates them then they can’t form relationships with people outside the church. The Phelps clan isn’t just another ultra-right-wing fundamentalist whackjob sect, only more so. Phelps deliberately chose anti-Americanism as a tenet of his church because almost all other ultra-right-wing fundamentalist whackjobs are rabidly nationalistic. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/11 "2008-01-10T20:28:14Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] An all mighty, and all powerful, and all loving God… [/QUOTE] The Phelps do not claim that their God is all loving. In fact, they’re quite specific in their belief that God passionatly hates everyone on Earth who is not a member of their church. Also, what **Lemur866** said. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/12 "2008-01-10T20:37:22Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] An all mighty, and all powerful, and all loving God… [/QUOTE] Westboro Baptist Church explicitly denies that God is all-loving. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/13 "2008-01-10T21:07:11Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] The Phelps clan isn’t just another ultra-right-wing fundamentalist whackjob sect, only more so. Phelps deliberately chose anti-Americanism as a tenet of his church because almost all other ultra-right-wing fundamentalist whackjobs are rabidly nationalistic. [/QUOTE] I don’t disagree with most of your post, but I think it is unfair to characterize Fred Phelps as right wing. His beliefs aren’t representative of anything except his own church, as you rightly note, and his personal history doesn’t show any association with the right wing or conservative movement. As a matter of fact, Phelps defiantly maintains his Democratic party registration. This doesn’t prove that he’s representative of Democrats, surely, but he isn’t one of us be a long shot, and I think you ought to acknowledge this. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/14 "2008-01-10T21:36:28Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I don’t disagree with most of your post, but I think it is unfair to characterize Fred Phelps as right wing. His beliefs aren’t representative of anything except his own church, as you rightly note, and his personal history doesn’t show any association with the right wing or conservative movement. As a matter of fact, Phelps defiantly maintains his Democratic party registration. This doesn’t prove that he’s representative of Democrats, surely, but he isn’t one of us be a long shot, and I think you ought to acknowledge this. [/QUOTE] Fred Phelps is a leftist anti-homosexual behavior activist and liberal Democrat. That is the first line of his entry at [Conservapedia.](http://www.conservapedia.com/Fred_phelps) Just further proof that NO ONE wants him. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/15 "2008-01-10T22:02:49Z")
[QUOTE=PoorYorick] Sorry, but now I can’t get _Pulp Fiction_ out of my head. [/QUOTE] Thats funny, I keep hearing this voice in my head, claiming to be god, she says to kill Fred Phelps. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/16 "2008-01-10T23:17:16Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] Just further proof that NO ONE wants him. [/QUOTE] I was just thinking: Phelps may actually be the first person to never die based on the “Heaven doesn’t want him, and Hell’s afraid he’ll take over” theory.\* - As a Universalist, I am supposed to believe that God is too good to damn anyone. As a Unitarian Universalist, I am supposed to respect the Inherent Worth and Dignity of Every Human Being. _Pater_ Phelps tries both of these beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/17 "2008-01-11T03:38:53Z")
[QUOTE=PoorYorick] Sorry, but now I can’t get _Pulp Fiction_ out of my head. [/QUOTE] Heh. I was channeling Jules as I wrote the OP. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/18 "2008-01-11T03:50:53Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] As a matter of fact, Phelps defiantly maintains his Democratic party registration. [/QUOTE] So does Lyndon Larouche. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/19 "2008-01-11T04:14:25Z")
[QUOTE=SisterCoyote] - As a Universalist, I am supposed to believe that God is too good to damn anyone. As a Unitarian Universalist, I am supposed to respect the Inherent Worth and Dignity of Every Human Being. _Pater_ Phelps tries both of these beliefs. [/QUOTE] As an Anglican, I believe in both. And smile and smile to myself at the thought of Phelps dying and going up to Heaven… only to meet God looking fabulous in a floor-length backless red Chanel and pumps. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963/20 "2008-01-11T04:32:47Z")
What bothers me, and this is a bit OT, is that people continue to regard Phelps et al. as a mainline church. (Not people in this thread, but generally.) I think it’s a matter of terminology. I wish people would stop referring to them as a “Baptist Church” just because they claim to be. They have no affiliation to any legitimate Baptist Church, all of whom vehemently disavow them. They are a cult, no more no less, and I think they would not be taken so seriously, or taken seriously at all, if they were referred to as a cult instead of a church. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hell-to-be-remodeled-with-10th-circle-aka-the-westboro-baptist-suite/432963.md?page=2)