# Hello Universe? Can we get some better Trump defenders on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663 "2019-12-31T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/301 "2020-01-07T18:45:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That sounds like mindreading. He refused, BEFORE HIS INAUGURATION, to do anything with his holdings that would place him into compliance with the Emoluments Clause (his Secret Service detail was paying HIM to quarter at properties he owns, so the instant he became President, he was in violation). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/302 "2020-01-07T18:52:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How was it criminal? Or is this another case of “trump did it so it MUST be wrong” > > Bribery as it is used in that context usually refers to being the recipient of a bribe. We use carrots and sticks in foreign policy all the time. Now you may not agree that Trump was executing foreign policy but that’s a matter of opinion. Trump was offering a bribe (aid, which was already approved and in the works, but which he had some ability to hold up) in exchange for an act that was for his own personal benefit rather than something to do with US foreign policy interests. That’s corruption, and abuse of power, and both things are quite obviously illegal, even if those are broad categories of behavior that aren’t strictly defined. Bribery is explicitly mentioned as a justification for impeachment and removal. This stuff isn’t really about opinion any more. This was as obvious a crime as any double-speak that mafia thugs and protection rackets use – and that stuff has been prosecuted over and over again. It’s simply not credible or plausible that this phone call was anything other than corruption and abuse of power. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/303 "2020-01-07T18:56:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Lets say when I get married and I promise to love honor and obey. Prior to my wedding, I was a womanizer. Did I break my wedding vows as soon as I made them? > > Lets say that 6 months after my wedding I cheat on my wife. Does that mean I broke my wedding vows as soon as I took them? No, but is strong evidence (close enough to incontrovertible proof as to allow for no distinction) that your “vows” were lies. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/304 "2020-01-07T18:59:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you want a better president then get more people to elect a better president. I suspect that most of the people on this board preach to the choir and don’t actually try to understand why people might have voted for trump and simply write them off as racists or something. Nobody thinks that successfully removing the America-hating fuckstick will result in our having a better president. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/305 "2020-01-07T19:10:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Where are you finding the constitutional requirement that puts a timeline on providing aid to Ukraine? Dude. You responded to the accusation that donnie broke the law by saying “But he had an excuse” ? ? That is weaker sauce than Fox and Friends. Where are you finding this legal theory? Excuses come up when someone says they are ignorant of the law. Is this what you mean? Cite a case where an “excuse” was used to exculpate someone. “But he had an excuse…he had an excuse and they won’t let him be…why won’t they leave Donnie alone???” ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/306 "2020-01-07T19:16:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Just because I don’t drink your brand of kool aid doesn’t make mean I’m not a liberal. > > By almost every metric, I am liberal just not a self-defeating, irrational, woke, SJW liberal. That’s some Trump-speak for sure. “I’ve done extensive research and many people agree with me.” Where do you get the idea that I’ve been acting self-defeating, irrational, woke and SJWish? > [@](#): > > You engage in purity tests that chase away moderates and conservatives who don’t subscribe to your brand of liberal orthodoxy. That proves you haven’t been reading the anti-Trump posts because you automatically dismiss them as liberal litmus tests. These aren’t liberal vs conservative issues. These are issues about his dishonesty, his untrustworthiness, his ignorance of the law and the Constitution, his immature rants on Twitter, his incessant vanity, his inability to deal with conflicting information, and so on. I’m willing to understand that conservatives take these criticisms of Trump personally, as they see these as attacks on themselves and their way of life. That’s why I don’t resort to insults or name-calling. I still don’t get any answers. > [@](#): > > Do you know what an echo chamber is? Because it doesn’t sound like you do. From the words “echo” and “chamber,” I take it to mean “same thing said repeatedly by different persons.” Again, you don’t read the anti-Trump posts because you assume they’re all the same statement. You’re incapable of justifying Trump’s behavior, so out comes the anti-liberal hostile attribution bias. > [@](#): > > Yep and according to useful tools like you, anyone that isn’t on tilt all the time is a trump fellating conservative. So far, you haven’t shown any indication to criticize Trump. You fudged some answers on a political affiliation quiz so you could masquerade as liberal. Talk about tilting… > [@](#): > > I understand. From where you are standing a moderate liberal looks like rock ribbed conservative. But that has more to do with where you are standing than where I am standing. Dopers have called you many things, but none of them are “moderate liberal.” Give it up. You’re not fooling anybody. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/307 "2020-01-07T19:33:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … Trump has prevented us from getting direct testimony but we cannot assume the worst simply because he is telling everyone not to talk to his political enemies. What is your reasoning here? That donnie is above the law and the constitution? I think you are supposed to assume the worst under these conditions. That principle goes back so far it might not even have a name. You need to account for another, very real, legal principle wherein it’s evidence of guilt to obstruct legal matters. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/308 "2020-01-07T19:36:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Explain to me how Trump is the madam of a whorehouse and Ukraine is the person being called slutty? Another Republican JAQoff. > [@](#): > > And? Several people have also agreed that this is an echo chamber. This is Trump’s----or Fox News’ “people say.” Nobody’s saying it. \*\*So? Are you getting the vapors about the use of the word vapors now? What ever happened to putting me on ignore? \*\* I want everyone to pay attention to this bit in case he tries to whine he’s not sexist later on. > [@](#): > > Frankly, I didn’t know you were a woman. Your name is pretty gender neutral. Another liar’s verbal trick. Just like Trump. So, we have JAQing off-----he’ll ask “What’s JAQing off?” , the repeated refusal to listen, the constant playing dumb, the never-ending, long-winded evasions,----so that we wind up never moving forward, because Repubs keep fighting to reunvent the fucking wheel. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/309 "2020-01-07T19:39:00Z")
Hey, he did admit that it was for purely emotive, and not rational, reasons why people voted for Trump. It somehow involved people being mad in November, 2016 about how upset other people would be in January, 2017, but it all makes sense. It was my fault! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/310 "2020-01-07T19:44:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How was it criminal? Or is this another case of “trump did it so it MUST be wrong” > > Bribery as it is used in that context usually refers to being the recipient of a bribe. We use carrots and sticks in foreign policy all the time. Now you may not agree that Trump was executing foreign policy but that’s a matter of opinion. Are we quibbling about the opposite natures of _soliciting a bribe_, _offering a bribe_, and _accepting a bribe_? All are criminal. Let’s use the term _extortion_ if you prefer. And he was also _soliciting perjury_. Using his government position for political purpose is itself generally a crime — contact a lawyer if you need details. The American people, through their Congress, had instructed the Trump to fund Ukraine’s defense against Russia. Trump violated that trust when he made the Ukraine President’s violation of his own laws a pre-condition for that money. These turpitudes benefited Russia; IMO Russia is clearly our enemy, making these crimes Treason: > [@§2381. Treason](#): > > Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. And that’s just one phone call, barely scratching the surface of this man’s crimes. He was born a criminal, was criminal throughout his career, entered the White House a criminal and continued to commit crimes. He will die a criminal. > [@](#): > > … I can judge her on what she says regardless of what’s between her legs. You think the experience of a female U.S. soldier is the same as that of a male soldier. Got it, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/311 "2020-01-07T19:49:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Hey, he did admit that it was for purely emotive, and not rational, reasons why people voted for Trump. It somehow involved people being mad in November, 2016 about how upset other people would be in January, 2017, but it all makes sense. It was my fault! Pretty much the same reason for “why we can’t get better Trump defenders on this board” Because we big mean Lib’ruls hurt their feelers by accusing Trump of being a sack of shit lying criminal scumbag. This means we are nasty potty-mouths, and therefore they will take their ball and go home. It’s all out fault that they have no ability to defend the Cheeto-faced shitgibbon. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/312 "2020-01-07T20:10:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Pretty much the same reason for “why we can’t get better Trump defenders on this board” > > Because we big mean Lib’ruls hurt their feelers by accusing Trump of being a sack of shit lying criminal scumbag. This means we are nasty potty-mouths, and therefore they will take their ball and go home. > > It’s all out fault that they have no ability to defend the Cheeto-faced shitgibbon. Worse yet----we do mean, nasty, things like quote Trump verbatim. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/313 "2020-01-07T20:20:42Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Worse yet----we do mean, nasty, things like quote Trump verbatim. I know! I had the cheek to do that on a facebook group… simply quoted Trump, with a link to a video of him saying my exact quote… And immediately was told that I was just “spreading left wing propaganda”. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/314 "2020-01-07T20:24:23Z")
Euphonious Polemic: > [@](#): > > It’s all out fault that they have no ability to defend the Cheeto-faced shitgibbon. Or maybe they just have better ways/places to spend their time. Whether or not they’re capable, what’s the allure of being somewhere so clearly hostile when there are many other websites they can choose from…not to mention ways they could spend their time off the internet. Really, even if they wish to engage in political debate, the likelihood is they’ll enjoy it more among people who criticize Trump by name and not by epithet. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/315 "2020-01-07T20:35:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trump was offering a bribe (aid, which was already approved and in the works, but which he had some ability to hold up) in exchange for an act that was for his own personal benefit rather than something to do with US foreign policy interests. And a key point is that it was _contrary_ to US policy interests. He took actions that were opposed to the national security interests of the US, so that he could personally benefit. That’s the common definition of treason. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/316 "2020-01-07T20:38:34Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Euphonious Polemic: > > Or maybe they just have better ways/places to spend their time. Whether or not they’re capable, what’s the allure of being somewhere so clearly hostile when there are many other websites they can choose from…not to mention ways they could spend their time off the internet. > > Really, even if they wish to engage in political debate, the likelihood is they’ll enjoy it more among people who criticize Trump by name and not by epithet. 1. This is The BBQ Pit, so no bitching about name-calling here, please. 2. I’ve asked this serval times and have not gotten a legit response to date: Where the fuck are all those websites where they are treated more fairly…and I’m not talking about all those rightwing sites where anything they say is given a free pass without opposition and where opposing opinions are banned? Where are all those websites that do it better than we do? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/317 "2020-01-07T21:02:19Z")
Post a direct quote of Trump = “filthy liberal propaganda and lies” ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/318 "2020-01-07T22:59:14Z")
A couple of years ago, I asked a conservative poster here (don’t remember the name) if he thought a Democrat president would take away his guns, even though it’s never happened. His response: “This will blow your libtard mind. I don’t own any guns.” 1, He didn’t answer my question. 2, he assumed I was some commie bleeding heart SJW caricature, even though I own guns and dogs and drive an SUV and hate Starbucks coffee. 3, he could have engaged in meaningful dialogue but decided to PROVOKE me instead. /sniff Granted, this was the Pit, but he wasn’t the type to hang out in Great Debates, so this was my best opportunity to gain conservative insight. Answer: it’s pure tribalism. Trump is the biggest enemy of the liberal elite, and that’s all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/319 "2020-01-07T23:39:58Z")
I’m speaking now as **Dr\_Septimus\_Jekyll** , not that other guy **Mr\_Septimus\_Hyde**. Last night I had a nightmare and imagined myself a Trump defender. I started a thread dedicated to Glorious #45. Before I clicked Submit, some of the nightmare had worn off, but I felt I was still performing a public service — creating a safe place for Trumpists to express themselves. Of course, under the umbrella term “Trumpist” I include those who pretend they voted for Gary Johnson. Any vote against Hillary — the only non-Trump possible by November 2016 — was a vote against Truth, Sanity, Justice and America. Under the Trumpist umbrella perhaps we should also include **Velocity Just\_Asking\_Questions**. Maybe **JAQ Velocity** voted for Hillary (Who knows? who cares?) but he and **Magiver** and their ilk clearly do not get it. It’s possible I overshot in the Glorious #45 thread and didn’t capture the thoughts of SDMB’s Trumpists. They can start to muster their courage by arguing against **Septimus\_Hyde**. Let us know that real Trumpists, smart Trumpists, don’t think like **Septimus\_Hyde**. \* If that’s the case.\* OTOH, the other thread links to insanities by Carlson Tucker and Sean Hannity, top “conservative intellectuals.” Are Tucker and Hannity role models for the Board’s Trumpists, or do they think they can do better? They complain we argue against strawmen caricatures of GOP or Trumpist thought. But can they put their typing fingers to work to match their flatulent words? Or is **Septimus\_Hyde** the best spokesman they have here? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/320 "2020-01-08T03:30:36Z")
Czarcasm: > [@](#): > > 1. This is The BBQ Pit, so no bitching about name-calling here, please. Did I bitch about name-calling? I merely suggested that and erudite Trump defenders (the dearth of whom the OP bemoans) may see such and realize that the minds here are likely closed on the subject. It’s an uphill battle with almost no payoff. What you end up with are trolls, who get their jollies getting rises out of people they disagree with, because for them, it’s worth the effort. > [@](#): > > 1. I’ve asked this serval times and have not gotten a legit response to date: Where the fuck are all those websites where they are treated more fairly…and I’m not talking about all those rightwing sites where anything they say is given a free pass without opposition and where opposing opinions are banned? Where are all those websites that do it better than we do? There are definitely some Jewish forums where I’ve seen balanced debate about Trump. There are those who will defend him for his right-wingness and pro-Israel actions, and those who will decry his crudeness, corruption and his less-admirable moves, like abandoning the Kurds in Syria. That said, I’m not an internet encyclopedia. I’m involved in a rather small number of on-line forums, most of which relate to specific interests of mine rather to general subjects. Who knows, maybe there really are no “better quality” Trump supporters, or maybe there really are no more hospitable web forums for them that aren’t specifically right-wing. But I can certainly see why reasonable pro-Trump voices will avoid this board (or at least political debates on it), and not only in the BBQ Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=17)