# Hello Universe? Can we get some better Trump defenders on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663 "2019-12-31T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/321 "2020-01-08T05:22:59Z")
Can you name any “erudite Trump defenders” we supposedly chased off? I recall seeing “lying through their teeth” Trump defenders, and I recall “I’m really a fence-sitter…I just happen to point out what is wrong with Democrats at the drop of a hat” Trump defenders. If there are any sincere “I think he is what we need for good reason” Trump defenders, they are fooling themselves. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/322 "2020-01-08T05:59:55Z")
Czarcasm: > [@](#): > > Can you name any “erudite Trump defenders” we supposedly chased off? No, I can’t. I can’t prove any exist. I freely admit that, and I believe I used hedging language in my posts to appropriately convey that. All I am saying is, if such exist, why would they WANT to come here? The post I was originally responding to just seemed to imply that this is a forum anyone defending Trump would feel some sort of compulsion to engage with, ipso facto their absence must mean they don’t exist at all. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/323 "2020-01-08T06:00:18Z")
“Less-admirable moves----like abandoning the Kurds.” … … … ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/324 "2020-01-08T06:05:47Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Czarcasm: > > No, I can’t. I can’t prove any exist. I freely admit that, and I believe I used hedging language in my posts to appropriately convey that. > > All I am saying is, if such exist, why would they WANT to come here? The post I was originally responding to just seemed to imply that this is a forum anyone defending Trump would feel some sort of compulsion to engage with, ipso facto their absence must mean they don’t exist at all. It what way would you have us change to attract this mythical creature? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/325 "2020-01-08T07:39:18Z")
Maybe we could arrange some crystals in a suitably mystical fashion. Shirley MacLaine might have some ideas… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/326 "2020-01-08T12:28:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can you name any “erudite Trump defenders” we supposedly chased off? I recall seeing “lying through their teeth” Trump defenders, and I recall “I’m really a fence-sitter…I just happen to point out what is wrong with Democrats at the drop of a hat” Trump defenders. If there are any sincere “I think he is what we need for good reason” Trump defenders, they are fooling themselves. Well, look, I’m erudite, and I’m sincere — but I guess I _do_ count as a fence-sitter, in that I may or may not vote for Trump in 2020; it seems too soon to say, as the Dems haven’t yet picked a candidate. So it’s not that I’ve been chased off; it’s that (a) I can’t yet say whether I plan to vote for the guy, only that (b) you may well see me playing defender once we move past A Candidate To Be Named Later. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/327 "2020-01-08T12:44:40Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And that’s just one phone call, barely scratching the surface of this man’s crimes. He was born a criminal, was criminal throughout his career, entered the White House a criminal and continued to commit crimes. He will die a criminal. Add “convicted” to the last one and I’d be okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/328 "2020-01-08T14:58:13Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Fucking asshole, and no, I won’t explain to you how you are a fucking asshole. If it isn’t apparent to you, then no amount of explaining will ever get thru to you. > > And I quoted this one because all the rest of the typewriter diarrhea didn’t deserve to be quoted. That is a great argument. You are meaningless. On this board and probably in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/329 "2020-01-08T15:03:34Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “Like it or not Trump is our President. He was duly elected and even if we impeach him and remove him we will still have to deal with the fact that this country at one time elected someone like him. And rather than get outraged that so much of the country can do something that you so vehemently disagree with, **perhaps you should try and figure out why so many people did something like this**. Try and understand them rather than simply condemn them, because even if Trump gets impeached, those people get to keep voting.” > > The entire argument that Trump is President because a group of people wearing “Fuck your feelings” t-shirts to his 2016 rallies got their feelings offended is, perhaps, the most honest admittance of the complete lack of intellectual and moral capital in the conservative movement I have yet seen. Thanks, DA! In part, yes, Trump won because you hurt the feelings of struggling white people. 75% of America is white. It’s hard to win democratic elections without some significant portion of them. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/330 "2020-01-08T15:10:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > He refused, BEFORE HIS INAUGURATION, to do anything with his holdings that would place him into compliance with the Emoluments Clause (his Secret Service detail was paying HIM to quarter at properties he owns, so the instant he became President, he was in violation). That’s a good point. You think he should get impeached for that? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/331 "2020-01-08T15:14:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trump was offering a bribe (aid, which was already approved and in the works, but which he had some ability to hold up) in exchange for an act that was for his own personal benefit rather than something to do with US foreign policy interests. That’s corruption, and abuse of power, and both things are quite obviously illegal, even if those are broad categories of behavior that aren’t strictly defined. Bribery is explicitly mentioned as a justification for impeachment and removal. That is based on your opinion, Trump and his lawyers do not agree, and apparently neither do any of the Republican congressmen and one formerly Democratic congressman. What he did is more properly characterized as extortion IMO but lets say it’s a bribe. Bribery as it is mentioned in the constitution is not directed at bribes the president pays to others it is directed at accepting bribes FROM others. > [@](#): > > This stuff isn’t really about opinion any more. This was as obvious a crime as any double-speak that mafia thugs and protection rackets use – and that stuff has been prosecuted over and over again. It’s simply not credible or plausible that this phone call was anything other than corruption and abuse of power. Of COURSE it’s about opinions. It is not credible TO YOU that this was anything other than abuse of power. Almost 200 Republican congressmen and the majority of sitting senators seem to think differently. And it is their “OPINION” and not yours that matters. You want the opinions to change, you will probably have to start winning a few more elections. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/332 "2020-01-08T15:16:49Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > No, but is strong evidence (close enough to incontrovertible proof as to allow for no distinction) that your “vows” were lies. Of COURSE there is room for distinction. I have probably quit smoking half a dozen times before i actually quit and each time I was sincere in my belief that I was quitting for good. Trump can be both a habitual liar and sincerely taking an oath of office. It’s not his fault for being a habitual liar. It is our fault for allowing someone like him to get elected. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/333 "2020-01-08T15:17:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In part, yes, Trump won because you hurt the feelings of struggling white people. 75% of America is white. It’s hard to win democratic elections without some significant portion of them. Are there “struggling white people” who chose not to vote for Trump? What do you think motivated those folks to abstain from supporting him? Surely, _struggling and white_ are not the sole criteria of a Trump supporter, right? Must be something else to it, donchathink? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/334 "2020-01-08T15:21:43Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Dude. You responded to the accusation that donnie broke the law by saying “But he had an excuse” > ? > ? > That is weaker sauce than Fox and Friends. > > Where are you finding this legal theory? The theory that it’s not a crime if he did it to further foreign policy. > [@](#): > > Excuses come up when someone says they are ignorant of the law. Is this what you mean? No, but his excuse is that he wasn’t doing it to further his own self interest. > [@](#): > > Cite a case where an “excuse” was used to exculpate someone. Self defense is an excuse for murder. > [@](#): > > “But he had an excuse…he had an excuse and they won’t let him be…why won’t they leave Donnie alone???” They don’t have to let him be. But the Republicans are not obligated to vote the way you want. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/335 "2020-01-08T15:36:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The theory that it’s not a crime if he did it to further foreign policy. How far does somebody have to bury their head up Trump’s ass to actually believe this? Is there any evidence at all that Trump did this to further the USA’s foreign policy interests, and not exclusively for his own benefit? There comes a time when somebody who supports Trump has to come to the realization that they’ve elected a conman. That they’ve been conned. Being conned isn’t the end of the world, it happens. Somebody to very nice, and very smart people. So, while I can understand why somebody voted for the conman, I do not understand how anybody hasn’t come to the realization that they’ve been conned? Trump is really bad at being president. Regardless of how you feel about Republican policies, Trump is not a good president. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/336 "2020-01-08T15:45:49Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > That’s some Trump-speak for sure. “I’ve done extensive research and many people agree with me.” How did you read my post to say that? > [@](#): > > That proves you haven’t been reading the anti-Trump posts because you automatically dismiss them as liberal litmus tests. These aren’t liberal vs conservative issues. These are issues about his dishonesty, his untrustworthiness, his ignorance of the law and the Constitution, his immature rants on Twitter, his incessant vanity, his inability to deal with conflicting information, and so on. A large portion of the anti-Trump posts are partisan rather than specific to Trump. Have you ever seen me praise Trump for doing something that a Democratic president wouldn’t have done? > [@](#): > > I’m willing to understand that conservatives take these criticisms of Trump personally, as they see these as attacks on themselves and their way of life. That’s why I don’t resort to insults or name-calling. I still don’t get any answers. I know plenty of conservatives that hate the fuck out of trump. Do you know any conservatives? Or are they all too evil to break bread with? > [@](#): > > From the words “echo” and “chamber,” I take it to mean “same thing said repeatedly by different persons.” Again, you don’t read the anti-Trump posts because you assume they’re all the same statement. You’re incapable of justifying Trump’s behavior, so out comes the anti-liberal hostile attribution bias. Echo Chamber: an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered. There is a dangerous phenomenon with social media. The algorithms that determine what you see are affected by your preferences and as you show preferences for a particular ideology, you get more of that ideology on your feed and that confirms your bias. If you see more Rachel Maddow or Rush Limbaugh than CSPAN or NPR on your facebook feed you should not trust your own opinions. > [@](#): > > So far, you haven’t shown any indication to criticize Trump. You fudged some answers on a political affiliation quiz so you could masquerade as liberal. Talk about tilting… I consistently accuse him (and many of his supporters) of racism. I criticized him for his tax bill. I criticized him for his immigration policy. I’ve criticized him for trying to coerce Ukraine into investigating Hunter Biden. What exactly do you think I should be criticizing Trump for that I have not been criticizing Trump for? > [@](#): > > Dopers have called you many things, but none of them are “moderate liberal.” Give it up. You’re not fooling anybody. And THIS is the danger of an echo chamber. You convince yourself that you are right because you surround yourself with people who think like you. By any objective standard I am a moderate liberal. On the majority of issues I am decidedly on the left side of the issue. When you go around accusing everyone that is to the right of YOU of being a conservative, some of them might start believing you and voting accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/337 "2020-01-08T15:47:02Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Of COURSE there is room for distinction. I have probably quit smoking half a dozen times before i actually quit and each time I was sincere in my belief that I was quitting for good. Trump can be both a habitual liar and sincerely taking an oath of office. It’s not his fault for being a habitual liar. It is our fault for allowing someone like him to get elected. Wow… this is the poorest justification for Trump’s actions possible. It’s not his fault, it’s ours. Trump avoids responsibility for his actions because it hurts his ego to admit to making mistakes. His supporters approve, but don’t buy it when their misbehaving kids say it’s society’s fault. What makes Trump so special that he doesn’t deserve being called for his shit? Why don’t you blame the cigarettes for making you smoke? It’s obviously not your fault. You were conditioned by society to like cigarettes, and shouldn’t have to risk cancer for being so weak. Damuri, you not only drank the kool-aid, you made it your bloodstream. Who brainwashes you? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/338 "2020-01-08T15:52:26Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What is your reasoning here? That donnie is above the law and the constitution? > > I think you are supposed to assume the worst under these conditions. That principle goes back so far it might not even have a name. You mean like the 5th amendment? Or executive privilege? > [@](#): > > You need to account for another, very real, legal principle wherein it’s evidence of guilt to obstruct legal matters. It’s not obstruction if it is legal. You are not required to cooperate with your prosecutors. I think trump is guilty of trying to coerce ukraine to announce investigation of hunter biden. I think he should be impeached and removed. I don’t think there is enough there to force republicans to help the democrats to do so. There is a enough of a fig leaf for them to hide behind. But it’s a close thing. I’m hoping Pelosi has an ace up her sleeve and their vote comes to bite them in the ass. What looks barely acceptable right now will look like willful ignorance in light of more conclusive evidence. And if that happens, you will see a ton of Republican congressmen backpedalling and talking about getting pressure from up on high, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/339 "2020-01-08T15:57:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What looks barely acceptable right now will look like willful ignorance in light of more conclusive evidence. And if that happens, you will see a ton of Republican congressmen backpedalling and talking about getting pressure from up on high, etc. Ha ha ha ha! No you won’t see any Republican politicians do this. They are all in now. They have seen conclusive evidence that their man is a criminal con man, and they are sticking with him. Nothing, NOTHING will change their minds at this point. They are zap-strapped to the wagon going over the cliff, driven by a madman. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/340 "2020-01-08T15:57:37Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Another Republican JAQoff. Do you ever have anything meaningful to contribute? > [@](#): > > This is Trump’s----or Fox News’ “people say.” Nobody’s saying it. You are the one that started the “other people agree with me” bullshit: > [@](#): > > I am not the only person to call you on it. Maybe the people who think this is a liberal echo chamber are on your ignore list because it is not an uncommon statement. > [@](#): > > \*\*So? Are you getting the vapors about the use of the word vapors now? What ever happened to putting me on ignore? \*\* > > I want everyone to pay attention to this bit in case he tries to whine he’s not sexist later on. > > Another liar’s verbal trick. Just like Trump. > > So, we have JAQing off-----he’ll ask “What’s JAQing off?” , the repeated refusal to listen, the constant playing dumb, the never-ending, long-winded evasions,----so that we wind up never moving forward, because Repubs keep fighting to reunvent the fucking wheel. You’re rambling. I don’t think there is any point to engaging you anymore and i am afraid of saying something that might set you off so I will just ignore you so that I don’t say something that might set you off. Bye. I hope you feel better soon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=18)