# Hello Universe? Can we get some better Trump defenders on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663 "2019-12-31T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/341 "2020-01-08T15:59:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What he did is more properly characterized as extortion IMO but lets say it’s a bribe. Bribery as it is mentioned in the constitution is not directed at bribes the president pays to others it is directed at accepting bribes FROM others. What?!? I’m trying to imagine the twisted world view that could possibly lead to this quote, and I’m coming up short. Trump didn’t pay anything to Ukraine, he demanded payment FROM them in exchange for doing his job. Last month, as part of my corporate job, I had to go through a short training course on corruption and bribery. This is something corporations require regularly for their employees that work with customers. That course clearly explained that bribery is when an official accepts anything of value (not just cash in a briefcase), in exchange for doing that official’s job. The exchange does not need to be explicitly written or even stated. This description of bribery fits Trump’s Ukraine dealings to a tee. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/342 "2020-01-08T16:00:25Z")
It’s pretty hard to defend the indefensible. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/343 "2020-01-08T16:16:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Are we quibbling about the opposite natures of _soliciting a bribe_, _offering a bribe_, and _accepting a bribe_? All are criminal. Let’s use the term _extortion_ if you prefer. And he was also _soliciting perjury_. Yes there is a difference between a public official accepting a bribe and a public official offering a bribe. A district attorney cannot accept a bribe to reduce someone’s sentence. That same district attorney can bribe a criminal with a reduced sentence to rat out another criminal. A general cannot accept a bribe to depoly his troops in any way. That same general may be able to bribe a foreign military leader to deploy THEIR troops in some way. A public official, especially one in the executive branch can bribe others in the execution of their executive function. I think where the you might be skipping the tracks is that you are pre-supposing that Trump did this for selfish purposes. I think it is very likely that he did this for selfish political reasons but he has an excuse, an alternative reason for why he asked for that investigation. You may not believe it but it is enough of a fig leaf for the Republican congressmen to reject the article of impeachment. > [@](#): > > Using his government position for political purpose is itself generally a crime — contact a lawyer if you need details. The American people, through their Congress, had instructed the Trump to fund Ukraine’s defense against Russia. Trump violated that trust when he made the Ukraine President’s violation of his own laws a pre-condition for that money. These turpitudes benefited Russia; IMO Russia is clearly our enemy, making these crimes Treason: And he says he wasn’t doing it for political purposes. I’m pretty sure that his lawyers have all said this. The executive function is not that of an automaton. He can withhold aid if he thinks it’s going to end up in a swiss bank account somewhere. I don’t believe it, but I don’t have to. So far all the testimony saying he did it for political gain is hearsay. I understand that Trump is blocking the direct testimony. I don’t disagree with you about trump in general but this is still at the moment a partisan issue. > [@](#): > > And that’s just one phone call, barely scratching the surface of this man’s crimes. He was born a criminal, was criminal throughout his career, entered the White House a criminal and continued to commit crimes. He will die a criminal. That sounds like an opinion. > [@](#): > > You think the experience of a female U.S. soldier is the same as that of a male soldier. Got it, I guess. Where did I say this? I just said that being a woman does not make her arguments any more substantive than a man’s. I’d rather not talk about her because despite her being in the pit, I don’t feel comfortable arguing with or about people that tell me that they are suicidal. Even if they are in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/344 "2020-01-08T16:26:34Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Are there “struggling white people” who chose not to vote for Trump? yes of course. > [@](#): > > What do you think motivated those folks to abstain from supporting him? Surely, _struggling and white_ are not the sole criteria of a Trump supporter, right? Must be something else to it, donchathink? I suspect you have not voted for a Republican in at least 10 years. If you are a dedicated liberal, you weren’t going to vote for trump. If you are a dedicated conservative, you weren’t going to vote for hillary. If you are neither of those things, your vote might be up for grabs and trump did a much better job of getting your vote and appears to be doing a better job of getting your vote in 2020 too, and many liberals are complicit in the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/345 "2020-01-08T16:34:29Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > How far does somebody have to bury their head up Trump’s ass to actually believe this? Apparently not to far if you are a republican congressman. > [@](#): > > Is there any evidence at all that Trump did this to further the USA’s foreign policy interests, and not exclusively for his own benefit? Yes, Ukraine is in fact a fairly corrupt place. Hunter Biden is a blight that peddles his family name for personal gain. It’s a wonder that he and trump aren’t best buddies. I put nothing past Hunter Biden, why do you? > [@](#): > > There comes a time when somebody who supports Trump has to come to the realization that they’ve elected a conman. That they’ve been conned. Being conned isn’t the end of the world, it happens. Somebody to very nice, and very smart people. So, while I can understand why somebody voted for the conman, I do not understand how anybody hasn’t come to the realization that they’ve been conned? Trump is really bad at being president. Regardless of how you feel about Republican policies, Trump is not a good president. They don’t give a shit. Sure, some of them drink his kool aid but a lot of them are clear eyed supporters because he is electable and he nominates conservative justices. If he can get another term you will be hoping beyond hope that RBG lasts through 2024 and Breyer isn’t young either. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/346 "2020-01-08T16:37:21Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Wow… this is the poorest justification for Trump’s actions possible. It’s not his fault, it’s ours. Trump avoids responsibility for his actions because it hurts his ego to admit to making mistakes. His supporters approve, but don’t buy it when their misbehaving kids say it’s society’s fault. What makes Trump so special that he doesn’t deserve being called for his shit? Of course he can be criticized. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t mean it when he was taking the oath. > [@](#): > > Why don’t you blame the cigarettes for making you smoke? It’s obviously not your fault. You were conditioned by society to like cigarettes, and shouldn’t have to risk cancer for being so weak. You don’t really understand what you read, do you? > [@](#): > > Damuri, you not only drank the kool-aid, you made it your bloodstream. Who brainwashes you? NPR and CSPAN. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/347 "2020-01-08T16:40:18Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ha ha ha ha! > > No you won’t see any Republican politicians do this. They are all in now. They have seen conclusive evidence that their man is a criminal con man, and they are sticking with him. Nothing, NOTHING will change their minds at this point. They are zap-strapped to the wagon going over the cliff, driven by a madman. Pelosi has all republican congressmen on the record displaying what will be seen as wilful ignorance of trumps corruption. I’m not saying she is omnipotent but she is politically smarter than any of us and I am just speculating/hoping that she will be able to jiujitsu their vote into a crippling liability for them. And once that vote clearly becomes a liability, they will run away from that vote as much as the democrat ran away from the AUMF vote, only this one is less excusable. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/348 "2020-01-08T16:40:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How did you read my post to say that? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post > Just because I don’t drink your brand of kool aid doesn’t make mean I’m not a liberal. > > By almost every metric, I am liberal just not a self-defeating, irrational, woke, SJW liberal. Take for example, [Trump touting his knowledge of wind power and turbines](https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/23/politics/wind-turbines-trump-fact-check/index.html), saying “I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know.” He doesn’t cite anything. He thinks saying it makes it true. Your “by almost any metric” qualifies as Trump speak, because you don’t cite anything to back up what you say. > [@](#): > > A large portion of the anti-Trump posts are partisan rather than specific to Trump. Why would his dishonesty, ignorance of the law and the Constitution, incompetence over finances, inability to consider contrary viewpoints to his own, mob boss tactics, be considered partisan issues? > [@](#): > > Have you ever seen me praise Trump for doing something that a Democratic president wouldn’t have done? I don’t give a shit what a Democratic president would have done. That’s not relevant to his qualifications as president. > [@](#): > > I know plenty of conservatives that hate the fuck out of trump. Do you know any conservatives? Or are they all too evil to break bread with? I was one myself during the Reagan era, then saw the error of my ways. I’ve drank moonshine and hunted with plenty of conservatives. I would be fine with conservatives if they adhered to what they used to stand for before Trump came along. Personal accountability, balanced budget, and distrust of Russia used to be core conservative values. > [@](#): > > Echo Chamber: an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered. How is that different from what I said? > [@](#): > > There is a dangerous phenomenon with social media. The algorithms that determine what you see are affected by your preferences and as you show preferences for a particular ideology, you get more of that ideology on your feed and that confirms your bias. If you see more Rachel Maddow or Rush Limbaugh than CSPAN or NPR on your facebook feed you should not trust your own opinions. I don’t use Twitter, I only use Facebook to play Mutant Genetic Gladiators, and I disable notifications for any app I use. I largely avoid social media because it tries to exploit personal information. I only read news sites and don’t watch any of the news networks. Don’t try to get in my head. There’s barely room for me in there. > [@](#): > > I consistently accuse him (and many of his supporters) of racism. > I criticized him for his tax bill. > I criticized him for his immigration policy. > I’ve criticized him for trying to coerce Ukraine into investigating Hunter Biden. Good for you. You’d be a lot more convincing if you actually linked to these criticisms. > [@](#): > > What exactly do you think I should be criticizing Trump for that I have not been criticizing Trump for? His dishonesty, ignorance of the law and the Constitution, incompetence over finances, inability to consider contrary viewpoints to his own, mob boss tactics, strong-arming Ukraine, too many to list here. > [@](#): > > And THIS is the danger of an echo chamber. You convince yourself that you are right because you surround yourself with people who think like you. What the fuck are you talking about? I sit alone at my computer. I don’t know any of the anti-Trumpers here personally. I think some of their viewpoints are without merit, but I don’t consider them as nightmarish as those of the Trump supporters. I hated Trump long before he was president, and it had nothing to do with liberal vs conservative issues. I don’t even consider myself liberal, but apparently I am automatically because I don’t support Trump. > [@](#): > > By any objective standard I am a moderate liberal. > > On the majority of issues I am decidedly on the left side of the issue. So you’ve claimed repeatedly, and still no one believes you. > [@](#): > > When you go around accusing everyone that is to the right of YOU of being a conservative, some of them might start believing you and voting accordingly. You’re the only one. All the others are at least open and honest about it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/349 "2020-01-08T16:45:30Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > What?!? I’m trying to imagine the twisted world view that could possibly lead to this quote, and I’m coming up short. > > Trump didn’t pay anything to Ukraine, he demanded payment FROM them in exchange for doing his job. I’m not the one that characterized this as a bribe coming from trump. Take it up with them. I was just saying that the constitution does not prohibit a US official from offering something for cooperation. > [@](#): > > Last month, as part of my corporate job, I had to go through a short training course on corruption and bribery. This is something corporations require regularly for their employees that work with customers. That course clearly explained that bribery is when an official accepts anything of value (not just cash in a briefcase), in exchange for doing that official’s job. The exchange does not need to be explicitly written or even stated. This description of bribery fits Trump’s Ukraine dealings to a tee. That is if you disregard trumps explanation for his actions. I don’t believe it but it provides the republican congressmen with a fig leaf. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/350 "2020-01-08T16:46:36Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > It’s pretty hard to defend the indefensible. Yes. But I am giving it my best effort. That’s what the OP asked for. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/351 "2020-01-08T16:51:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yes. But I am giving it my best effort. That’s what the OP asked for. I’ll give you that. A for effort. Do you find it difficult? On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being trivial, and 10 being near impossible), how hard do you find it to defend Trump’s action? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/352 "2020-01-08T16:55:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not the one that characterized this as a bribe coming from trump. Take it up with them. I was just saying that the constitution does not prohibit a US official from offering something for cooperation. > > That is if you disregard trumps explanation for his actions. I don’t believe it but it provides the republican congressmen with a fig leaf. This fig leaf is not credible. Yes, the Republicans in congress have their heads way up Trump’s ass. Do you really believe this nonsense, or are you putting on a show here? The corruption and illegality is in public for all to see. That most Republicans refuse to see it is something we have to deal with, but it has no more factual/truthful validity than most Germans’ support for Hitler in the 1930s. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/353 "2020-01-08T17:13:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not the one that characterized this as a bribe coming from trump. Take it up with them. Do you recall who they were? I haven’t seen anyone mentioning that Trump was _paying_ a bribe, only that he was demanding that a bribe be paid to him. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/354 "2020-01-08T17:28:35Z")
Shit, I’ll take credit for that one. By illegally withholding taxpayer funds, Trump was using our aid to bribe Ukraine to interfere with our elections. I’m fine with calling it extortion, if that is more palatable to his supporters. I’m kinda easy this way. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/355 "2020-01-08T17:45:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I suspect you have not voted for a Republican in at least 10 years. If you are a dedicated liberal, you weren’t going to vote for trump. If you are a dedicated conservative, you weren’t going to vote for hillary. If you are neither of those things, your vote might be up for grabs and trump did a much better job of getting your vote and appears to be doing a better job of getting your vote in 2020 too, and many liberals are complicit in the effort. Many racists, bigots, evangelicals and low information voters are complicit as well. In ways that seems far more egregious and destructive. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/356 "2020-01-08T18:10:08Z")
The attempted bribe was both ways, to and from Trump. He was offering something that he was trying to illegally hold up, and asking for something that illegally benefits him personally rather than the country. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/357 "2020-01-08T18:13:21Z")
I predicted this would go off the rails…and so it goes… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/358 "2020-01-08T18:36:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > He refus > ed, BEFORE HIS INAUGURATION, to do anything with his holdings that would place him into compliance with the Emoluments Clause (his Secret Service detail was paying HIM to quarter at properties he owns, so the instant he became President, he was in violation). > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That’s a good point. You think he should get impeached for that? I think it stands as sufficient proof that when he took the oath of office, he was perjuring himself by never intending to faithfully fulfill it (the statement of mine that you said called for mind-reading). Let’s just call it one of the smallest factors in the calculus of how he’s disqualified from deserving acquittal. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/359 "2020-01-08T18:37:13Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > The “best” defense I’ve ever heard for Trump was from a guy on one of my FB debate groups: > > “I didn’t vote for Trump because I thought he was a good guy. I voted for him because I wanted to watch DC burn to the ground. And so far, he’s doing a good job of that”. > > A disturbing post indeed. But at least it’s an honest one, and it is not completely with out its merits. I think there are Christian fundamentalists who want to see the world destroyed, so they support Trump. Anyone getting huge amounts of income from a polluting industry or who work in such an industry also love him. Oil and gas, pesticide, herbicide, chemical, coal, fertilizer, internal combustion engines, military, and probably a few dozen others. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/360 "2020-01-08T19:06:21Z")
There are too many people who have no hope and just want to see their tax dollars used in some way, some fireworks that they can see and consume, as white people. If they can’t do that then something is seriously wrong in the countnry, after all, I mean they are white and everything… There are people for whom the generals killing offsets their feeling that taxes just go to people of color. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=19)