# Hello Universe? Can we get some better Trump defenders on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663 "2019-12-31T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/361 "2020-01-08T19:06:25Z")
> [@eenerms](#): > > I predicted this would go off the rails…and so it goes… Sure, but it took six or seven pages! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/362 "2020-01-08T20:38:43Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Take for example, [Trump touting his knowledge of wind power and turbines](https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/23/politics/wind-turbines-trump-fact-check/index.html), saying “I know windmills very much. I’ve studied it better than anybody I know.” He doesn’t cite anything. He thinks saying it makes it true. Your “by almost any metric” qualifies as Trump speak, because you don’t cite anything to back up what you say. > [@](#): > > Good for you. You’d be a lot more convincing if you actually linked to these criticisms. I have presented more evidence that I am a moderate liberal than you have that I am not. But here is what I found: I support roe v wade (unlimited in the first trimester with fewer rights in the 2nd and 3rd trimester) (From about when I joined [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7822664&postcount=167](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7822664&postcount=167)) (from 2010 [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12585127&postcount=82](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12585127&postcount=82)) (from 2015 [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18255533&postcount=73](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18255533&postcount=73)) I also hold the following positions. Please tell me which one you would like to see cites for because its not like I can just search for “cite that damuri ajashi supports X”. I support gay rights I support legalizing pot I oppose Trump’s tax cuts I support taking a tougher stance on trade negotiations I do not like the one sided free trade attitudes we have followed in the past I do not support Israel’s right to oppress palestinians I have voted democrat in every election this millenium I worked a phone bank for Obama I went door to door for Obama I voted for Hillary in 2016 I support a public option in Obamacare I support allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices I criticize trump That doesn’t mean i agree with every liberal position but I am pretty clearly on the liberal side of the divide. I support the 2nd amendment I oppose affirmative action in education as it is being practiced today There may be other things that I am sure others will point out. > [@](#): > > I was one myself during the Reagan era, then saw the error of my ways. I’ve drank moonshine and hunted with plenty of conservatives. I would be fine with conservatives if they adhered to what they used to stand for before Trump came along. Personal accountability, balanced budget, and distrust of Russia used to be core conservative values. > [@](#): > > I only use Facebook to play Mutant Genetic Gladiators, and I disable notifications for any app I use. I largely avoid social media because it tries to exploit personal information. I only read news sites and don’t watch any of the news networks. Don’t try to get in my head. There’s barely room for me in there. It’s just a phenomenon that I have noticed. I’m sure others have noticed it too. > [@](#): > > His dishonesty, ignorance of the law and the Constitution, incompetence over finances, inability to consider contrary viewpoints to his own, mob boss tactics, strong-arming Ukraine, too many to list here. I criticize him for his dishonesty and ignorance (of the law and otherwise). I am not sure he is incompetent over finances. I think the mob boss tactics is really just your opinion. I don’t know if he is immune to other opinions, he changed his mind about stuff when his base and constituency demanded it. Strong arming foreign powers is not really something that presidents are not supposed to do if done for the right reason. > [@](#): > > I don’t even consider myself liberal, but apparently I am automatically because I don’t support Trump. And I consider my self a conservative but apparently I am automatically a conservative because I don’t agree with every criticism of trump. > [@](#): > > So you’ve claimed repeatedly, and still no one believes you. > > You’re the only one. All the others are at least open and honest about it. That may be because some people have one acid test: How much froth comes out of your mouth while you are criticizing trump. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/363 "2020-01-08T20:53:14Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I’ll give you that. A for effort. > > Do you find it difficult? > > On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being trivial, and 10 being near impossible), how hard do you find it to defend Trump’s action? It’s not easy. You have to suspend disbelief, give trump every benefit of the doubt and ignore personal attacks by people who think that any defense of trump indicates a moral failing on the part of the defender. I’d say that the difficulty level really depends on how you choose to defend trump. If you take a yahoo boards approach, it’s pretty easy. Just tell people to fuck off and call them names. Sorta like some of the posters here. If you try to make a reasoned defense of trump you really do have to fall back on technicalities like hearsay and burden of proof for the Ukraine thing. Its not particularly convincing but it’s enough to provide a fig leaf for someone who doesn’t want to impeach him. If you want to defend him in other contexts you have to separate out the stuff that Trump does someone like Mitt Romney or John McCain might have done from the other stuff. You can wave away any criticism that might have been levelled at McCain and Romney by saying that any Republican president might have done the same thing and elections have consequences. If it’s something that only Trump might have done then you have to tailor your defense for the particular situation. If you are trying to make him look good. Then I think it’s impossible. He is either a racist or someone who stokes racism in others for political benefit. I don’t know how you can make someone like that look good. He is an embarrassment and other world leader make fun of him behind his back. And it is such a consensus view that he is a boob that they feel pretty comfortable doing it at parties with other world leaders, without feeling out their opinions on the subject. We will never live this down. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/364 "2020-01-08T20:55:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This fig leaf is not credible. Yes, the Republicans in congress have their heads way up Trump’s ass. its good enough for the republicans to keep their jobs. > [@](#): > > Do you really believe this nonsense, or are you putting on a show here? The corruption and illegality is in public for all to see. That most Republicans refuse to see it is something we have to deal with, but it has no more factual/truthful validity than most Germans’ support for Hitler in the 1930s. I am trying to present a better defense of trump. Isn’t that what we are supposed to be doing here? The fact of the matter is that almost all the real damning stuff is hearsay. It’s about as reliable as hearsay gets but it’s still hearsay. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/365 "2020-01-08T20:57:37Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Many racists, bigots, evangelicals and low information voters are complicit as well. In ways that seems far more egregious and destructive. most white supremacists were not going to vote for hillary. most evangelicals were not going to vote for hillary there are low information voters on both sides of the aisle they were voting mostly for the R or the D ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/366 "2020-01-08T21:12:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In part, yes, Trump won because you hurt the feelings of struggling white people. 75% of America is white. It’s hard to win democratic elections without some significant portion of them. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Many racists, bigots, evangelicals and low information voters are complicit as well. In ways that seems far more egregious and destructive. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > most white supremacists were not going to vote for hillary. > most evangelicals were not going to vote for hillary > there are low information voters on both sides of the aisle they were voting mostly for the R or the D You’ve made my point for me so you leave me no choice but to agree. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/367 "2020-01-09T01:10:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > its good enough for the republicans to keep their jobs. > > I am trying to present a better defense of trump. Isn’t that what we are supposed to be doing here? The fact of the matter is that almost all the real damning stuff is hearsay. It’s about as reliable as hearsay gets but it’s still hearsay. Hearsay? The White House’s own account of the call? That’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/368 "2020-01-09T02:30:20Z")
Trump’s illegal act caught on live TV is hearsay? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/369 "2020-01-09T02:40:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > its good enough for the republicans to keep their jobs. > > I am trying to present a better defense of trump. Isn’t that what we are supposed to be doing here? The fact of the matter is that almost all the real damning stuff is hearsay. It’s about as reliable as hearsay gets but it’s still hearsay. 1. No, it is not. 2. If the President has exculpatory evidence, he should allow people to speak. I just got divorced. You want a record of my comportment of it? Ask my ex-wife and daughter. I’m comfortable making that offer because I handled it well. I am so comfortable with that I am perfectly fine if the Senate wants to call them up and put us all on TV. Or, hell, just them. You say “hearsay”. There were 12, 14 people on the call and one of them testified. The others are prevented from doing so by a man whose call apparently wasn’t as perfect as my fuckin’ divorce. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/370 "2020-01-09T03:36:10Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You’ve made my point for me so you leave me no choice but to agree. I’m not sure what point you think you are making. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/371 "2020-01-09T06:37:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not sure what point you think you are making. I’d direct this same comment at you. (You and Waldo and the cephalopod declined to defend Glorious #45 in Lance’s thread, so just now I did it for you guys. You’re welcome.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/372 "2020-01-09T13:25:42Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’d direct this same comment at you. > > (You and Waldo and the cephalopod declined to defend Glorious #45 in Lance’s thread, so just now I did it for you guys. You’re welcome.) Again: defend him compared to whom? As soon as the Dems put up a nominee, I plan to explain whether I expect to vote for Trump; I’m only ‘declining’ to do so now because I don’t yet know if he’ll be running against someone I figure would be worse for the country. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/373 "2020-01-09T13:41:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Again: defend him compared to whom? > > As soon as the Dems put up a nominee, I plan to explain whether I expect to vote for Trump; I’m only ‘declining’ to do so now because I don’t yet know if he’ll be running against someone I figure would be worse for the country. The Dems could run Der Trihs and I’d still tell you that you were making a bad error in judgment even considering voting for Donald. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/374 "2020-01-09T13:57:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I think it stands as sufficient proof that when he took the oath of office, he was perjuring himself by never intending to faithfully fulfill it (the statement of mine that you said called for mind-reading). > > Let’s just call it one of the smallest factors in the calculus of how he’s disqualified from deserving acquittal. What you have is a slam dunk technicality. All the other stuff that you may find convincing is not really convincing for someone who supports trump. Bill Clinton perjured himself when he lied about Monica Lewinsky, should he have been removed? Even the feminist organizations didn’t want to see him removed, not because they were cool with his sexually predatory behavior but because they were really liking his SCOTUS nominees. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/375 "2020-01-09T14:00:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hearsay? The White House’s own account of the call? That’s ridiculous. The white house’s own account of the call was that they were bribing or soliciting a bribe from the Ukraine for trump’s personal benefit? Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/376 "2020-01-09T14:01:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Trump’s illegal act caught on live TV is hearsay? I must have missed something. Did this happen today? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/377 "2020-01-09T14:05:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have presented more evidence that I am a moderate liberal than you have that I am not. But here is what I found: > > I support roe v wade (unlimited in the first trimester with fewer rights in the 2nd and 3rd trimester) > (From about when I joined [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7822664&postcount=167](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7822664&postcount=167)) > (from 2010 [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12585127&postcount=82](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12585127&postcount=82)) > (from 2015 [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18255533&postcount=73](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18255533&postcount=73)) > > I also hold the following positions. Please tell me which one you would like to see cites for because its not like I can just search for “cite that damuri ajashi supports X”. > > I support gay rights > I support legalizing pot > I oppose Trump’s tax cuts > I support taking a tougher stance on trade negotiations > I do not like the one sided free trade attitudes we have followed in the past > I do not support Israel’s right to oppress palestinians > I have voted democrat in every election this millenium > I worked a phone bank for Obama > I went door to door for Obama > I voted for Hillary in 2016 > I support a public option in Obamacare > I support allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices > I criticize trump > > That doesn’t mean i agree with every liberal position but I am pretty clearly on the liberal side of the divide. OK, you made your case. Dopers, is Damuri a moderate liberal? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/378 "2020-01-09T14:10:47Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > 1. No, it is not. You think they’re going to get voted out for not impeaching trump? That seems like wishful thinking. > [@](#): > > 1. If the President has exculpatory evidence, he should allow people to speak. > > I just got divorced. You want a record of my comportment of it? Ask my ex-wife and daughter. I’m comfortable making that offer because I handled it well. I am so comfortable with that I am perfectly fine if the Senate wants to call them up and put us all on TV. Or, hell, just them. Why does he need exculpatory evidence, he doesn’t think there is sufficient damning evidence to make a case. Certainly not in the senate. > [@](#): > > You say “hearsay”. There were 12, 14 people on the call and one of them testified. The others are prevented from doing so by a man whose call apparently wasn’t as perfect as my fuckin’ divorce. :rolleyes: So where in the call does he say “I will withhold the military aid unless and until you start investigating hunter biden because I want to hurt his father in the upcoming election” It is not sufficient to establish that he withheld aid and on the same call asked for an investigation of hunter biden. You have to establish that he asked for the investigation for personal political gain. And that fact has not been established through direct testimony. It has all been second hand information from people who heard it from other people, and AFAICT all the witnesses heard it from the same small group of non-testifying people. If you are a republican, you can reasonably claim that you don’t want to impeach/remove a duly elected president and overturn the democratic process based on rumors and second hand information. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/379 "2020-01-09T14:12:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’d direct this same comment at you. > > (You and Waldo and the cephalopod declined to defend Glorious #45 in Lance’s thread, so just now I did it for you guys. You’re welcome.) I don’t understand what you are talking about. What lance’s thread? And why would I defend him there? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/380 "2020-01-09T14:16:10Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > The Dems could run Der Trihs and I’d still tell you that you were making a bad error in judgment even considering voting for Donald. Everybody always thinks that it can’t get any worse. That’s what we thought after Bush. And now it looks like Trump might also be itching to break Bush “most civilians needlessly killed” record for this millennium. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=20)