# Hello Universe? Can we get some better Trump defenders on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663 "2019-12-31T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/381 "2020-01-09T14:17:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The white house’s own account of the call was that they were bribing or soliciting a bribe from the Ukraine for trump’s personal benefit? Did I miss something? If you didn’t read that account, then yes, you missed something. It very clearly described an attempted bribe for Trump’s personal benefit. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/382 "2020-01-09T14:34:24Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Again: defend him compared to whom? > > As soon as the Dems put up a nominee, I plan to explain whether I expect to vote for Trump; I’m only ‘declining’ to do so now because I don’t yet know if he’ll be running against someone I figure would be worse for the country. Most sane Americans will vote for the D over Trump, even if the D is a moldy bowl of french fries. _Even a moldy bowl of french fries with mustard!_ Two years ago or so, I Searched for the earliest posts to mention “Trump” by **The Other Waldo Pepper**. Most amusing! You thought he was a supreme genius, an enviable human, perhaps the greatest businessman since Henry Ford. I know you’re trying to hide from that now — (Did you also vote for Nitwit Johnson? 😛 ) — but it was quite telling. Do you know how to do that Search? If so, quote a few of your old posts and tell us if your opinion’s changed. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/383 "2020-01-09T14:43:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Everybody always thinks that it can’t get any worse. I’m starting to become convinced that you’re actually fucking stupid and not just playing the part. Nobody is saying it can’t get worse than Trump. What people are saying is that, _in the current Democratic field of candidates_, everybody is better than Trump. So those who suggest otherwise are exercising bad judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/384 "2020-01-09T14:54:23Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not the one that characterized this as a bribe coming from trump. Take it up with them. I was just saying that the constitution does not prohibit a US official from offering something for cooperation. > > That is if you disregard trumps explanation for his actions. I don’t believe it but it provides the republican congressmen with a fig leaf. And apparently that’s all you need to provide a full-throated defense of Trump, and you think the liberals are only doing this because we hate Trump reflexively. I’m a moderate liberal, a real one, not a Republican playing one on a message board. And although I wasn’t happy when Trump was elected, I had a glimmer of hope because he was not an ideological conservative and he was not a fiscal conservative. I thought that maybe, just maybe, Trump would take advantage of the plethora of information and wealth of advisors available to him and maybe be open to some unique non-partisan initiatives on things like healthcare and infrastructure. My problem with Trump isn’t that he’s orange. It’s isn’t his laughably unnatural hair. It isn’t his crudeness or professed sexual attraction to his daughter. It isn’t even his horrible policy position on immigration, pretty much every politician has one policy position that I find horrible. It’s that he isn’t smart enough or skilled enough to do his job. He is completely and totally incurious. Is has a total disregard for the power of information, especially in the setting of a negotiation. He thinks he knows more than every single one of our governments carefully vetted battalion of experts. He has absolutely no capacity of considered thought or self-reflection. He cannot comprehend complex issues and refuses to try. As someone that had a career where I did lots of negotiating, his lack of negotiating skills are laughable. Information is THE weapon in any negotiation, the person that has the best and most complete information will find and maintain an edge. And it was both sad and funny the way he had to try to break up every existing alliance so he could “make deals” individually with each country. Because he is a rank novice at negotiation\*, and has not learned the more complex skill of negotiating a multi-party deal, a skill that is needed for the job he has. And he hasn’t comprehended that this job is different because, unlike with his previous job, he doesn’t have the option of walking away. \*He probably THINKS he was the great negotiator of the Trump Organization. But I’m pretty sure that his underlings had every deal fully worked out before they even brought DJT into the room with the client and contract and even then they sweated bullets praying that he wouldn’t fuck it up in the 5 minutes they gave him to play at dealmaking, ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/385 "2020-01-09T14:57:13Z")
That’s a lot of words just to say, ‘_Trump’s not fit to shovel shit from one place to another_’. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/386 "2020-01-09T15:55:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Most sane Americans will vote for the D over Trump, even if the D is a moldy bowl of french fries. _Even a moldy bowl of french fries with mustard!_ > > Two years ago or so, I Searched for the earliest posts to mention “Trump” by **The Other Waldo Pepper**. Most amusing! You thought he was a supreme genius, an enviable human, perhaps the greatest businessman since Henry Ford. I know you’re trying to hide from that now — (Did you also vote for Nitwit Johnson? 😛 ) — but it was quite telling. > > Do you know how to do that Search? If so, quote a few of your old posts and tell us if your opinion’s changed. I just ran the search, and the earliest posts that pop up don’t seem to say anything of the sort; possibly you have me confused with someone else? Especially since you’re asking, here, if I voted for Johnson — and you and I have previously discussed what I’ve already mentioned in this very thread, that I voted for Hillary Clinton? That said — since I’m of course not trying to “hide from that now” — feel free to quote any post of mine that makes mention of of Trump and ask away; I’ll obligingly shrug and let you know whether my opinion happens to have changed. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/387 "2020-01-09T15:59:57Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > \*He probably THINKS he was the great negotiator of the Trump Organization. But I’m pretty sure that his underlings had every deal fully worked out before they even brought DJT into the room with the client and contract and even then they sweated bullets praying that he wouldn’t fuck it up in the 5 minutes they gave him to play at dealmaking, I just had a flash of Marie Antoinette and her silver milkpail. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/388 "2020-01-09T16:12:11Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You think they’re going to get voted out for not impeaching trump? That seems like wishful thinking. > > Why does he need exculpatory evidence, he doesn’t think there is sufficient damning evidence to make a case. Certainly not in the senate. > > So where in the call does he say “I will withhold the military aid unless and until you start investigating hunter biden because I want to hurt his father in the upcoming election” > > It is not sufficient to establish that he withheld aid and on the same call asked for an investigation of hunter biden. You have to establish that he asked for the investigation for personal political gain. And that fact has not been established through direct testimony. It has all been second hand information from people who heard it from other people, and AFAICT all the witnesses heard it from the same small group of non-testifying people. > > If you are a republican, you can reasonably claim that you don’t want to impeach/remove a duly elected president and overturn the democratic process based on rumors and second hand information. All the evidence provided has not been exculpatory. It, in fact, has been damning. His guilt has been established through direct testimony, including his own via press statements, tweets, more. You saying that he hasn’t established his guilt is purely untrue. He established it in the call, he established it on the ‘transcript’, he established it on TV, he established it on the seas and oceans when he sent Barr & Giuliani on their fishing expeditions, he established it on the beaches of Mar-A-Lago, he established it with growing confidence and strength on the landing grounds of the White House helipad when he asked China to do the same, he has established it in the fields of the Rose Garden and the streets of DC, he has established it in the hills of Appalachia, and he will never surrender establishing that he was using foreign governments to look for political dirt and investigations on Hunter Biden. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/389 "2020-01-09T16:15:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Everybody always thinks that it can’t get any worse. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m starting to become convinced that you’re actually fucking stupid and not just playing the part. > > Nobody is saying it can’t get worse than Trump. What people are saying is that, _in the current Democratic field of candidates_, everybody is better than Trump. So those who suggest otherwise are exercising bad judgement. This. IF it can get worse than the America-hating fuckstick, it’s going to take a Republican to accomplish it. Which is why the world needs for the Republican Party to no longer exist. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/390 "2020-01-09T18:16:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I just ran the search, and the earliest posts that pop up don’t seem to say anything of the sort; possibly you have me confused with someone else? _ **I strongly apologize!** _ :o :o Mea culpa. Yes, I confused you with **Starving Artist.** I do not know why I confuse you with **Starving Artist** — and I’m pretty sure this isn’t the first time I’ve done it. There’s no similarity to your names. I’ll guess you took the same side in a discussion 10 years ago, my brain conflated you two, and the synapses have been misfiring since. **I’m Very Sorry.** Please accept a sincere apology from an old man whose brain has been farting more than usual lately. :o ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/391 "2020-01-09T18:27:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … > > I also hold the following positions. Please tell me which one you would like to see cites for because its not like I can just search for “cite that damuri ajashi supports X”. > > I support gay rights > I support legalizing pot > I oppose Trump’s tax cuts > I support taking a tougher stance on trade negotiations > I do not like the one sided free trade attitudes we have followed in the past > I do not support Israel’s right to oppress palestinians > I have voted democrat in every election this millenium > I worked a phone bank for Obama > I went door to door for Obama > I voted for Hillary in 2016 > I support a public option in Obamacare > I support allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices > I criticize trump > > That doesn’t mean i agree with every liberal position but I am pretty clearly on the liberal side of the divide. > > I support the 2nd amendment > I oppose affirmative action in education as it is being practiced today > There may be other things that I am sure others will point out. These are almost my exact political beliefs. What is this called these days? I know that the loudest mouths in the political sphere are usually the dumb ones, but I can’t help but think that everyone is going way too far on whatever side they are on and trying to normalize it. I don’t feel left or right anymore. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/392 "2020-01-09T23:41:27Z")
> [@bump](#): > > But I also think that there are a lot of conservative (little-C) people out there who are just sort of laying low and who won’t engage on here on topics outside of defending Trump because of the hostile environment. And that is something I think is a problem. I completely agree with this post. But it doesn’t go far enough in expressing just how much vitriol is inflicted on people who aren’t even defending \. Just asking questions, any questions, will make it happen. The vile that is spewed against anyone who doesn’t immediately chant the local party lines are shouted down very, very quickly. If people wonder why counter opinions aren’t proffered they are not paying attention to what has happened to this board. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/393 "2020-01-10T00:51:11Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > These are almost my exact political beliefs. What is this called these days? I know that the loudest mouths in the political sphere are usually the dumb ones, but I can’t help but think that everyone is going way too far on whatever side they are on and trying to normalize it. I don’t feel left or right anymore. It’s called a “single issue second-amendment voter” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/394 "2020-01-10T02:33:31Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I completely agree with this post. But it doesn’t go far enough in expressing just how much vitriol is inflicted on people who aren’t even defending \. Just asking questions, any questions, will make it happen. The vile that is spewed against anyone who doesn’t immediately chant the local party lines are shouted down very, very quickly. > > If people wonder why counter opinions aren’t proffered they are not paying attention to what has happened to this board. For example? ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/395 "2020-01-10T04:34:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For example? In a thread asking for people to try and proffer their reasons for supporting Trump, someone did and was greeted with post #120. There are more, some personal to me but I’m not going to derail this thread on old topics. But this board has gone from polite, intelligent discourse to vitriol against anyone who isn’t aligned with the party lines of this place. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/396 "2020-01-10T05:13:33Z")
This place does lean left. Stands to reason that our denizens are fed up with nearly three years of Trump’s base crowing about librul tears. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/397 "2020-01-10T06:26:33Z")
Y’know, I was just contemplating the wording of the thread title, and it occurred to me that it’s really a plea for a favor from some type of Deity; a request for a _deus ex machina_, if you will. Well, I say Fie! on that. If we’re going to be requesting a _deus ex machina_, let’s ask for something useful. So, if nobody objects, _ahem_: Hey, Universe, belay that request for more effective SDMB defenders of the America-hating fuckstick. Howzabout you just smite every Republican in government at all levels, and while you’re at it, also smite anyone who’s inclined to vote to replace them with another Republican. Now THAT’S how you entreat a deity for a favor. _mic drop_ ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/398 "2020-01-10T13:21:34Z")
I stole it from **'luci** , who, I think, stole it from the Simpsons: Hello Universe? I know I haven’t been a very good pantheist… ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/399 "2020-01-10T16:11:20Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > In a thread asking for people to try and proffer their reasons for supporting Trump, someone did and was greeted with post #120. > > There are more, some personal to me but I’m not going to derail this thread on old topics. But this board has gone from polite, intelligent discourse to vitriol against anyone who isn’t aligned with the party lines of this place. Oh, you poor dear, those peaky unfair facts, they just oppress you. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/400 "2020-01-10T16:39:47Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > But this board has gone from polite, intelligent discourse to vitriol against anyone who isn’t aligned with the party lines of this place. The “party lines of this place” is fighting ignorance. By embracing Trump and Trumpism, Republicans have not only doubled down on endorsing ignorance but abandoned all pretense of upholding “polite, intelligent discourse” themselves. And then they whine that they’re not still being deferred to with polite, intelligent discourse from the other side? It is to laugh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=21)