# Hello Universe? Can we get some better Trump defenders on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663 "2019-12-31T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/401 "2020-01-10T16:56:18Z")
Yes, the GOP became the party of “Fuck Your Feelings” and “snowflake libtards”. They now have no place to complain about civil, polite discourse from the other side. Forever as far as I’m concerned. Can’t put that toothpaste back in the tube now. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/402 "2020-01-10T18:11:56Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Oh, you poor dear, those peaky unfair facts, they just oppress you. Thanks for making my point so eloquently. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/403 "2020-01-10T18:23:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The “party lines of this place” is fighting ignorance. By embracing Trump and Trumpism, Republicans have not only doubled down on endorsing ignorance but abandoned all pretense of upholding “polite, intelligent discourse” themselves. > > And then they whine that they’re not still being deferred to with polite, intelligent discourse from the other side? It is to laugh. Again, this isn’t just about Trumpism. It is about many things. **margin** demonstrated it admirably. I wasn’t defending in any way a Trumpist point of view. But if anyone DARE not be lock step in alignment in condemning those that support Trump and yell the party line that Trump and Trump supporters are to be mocked, they themselves are ridiculed and cajoled, even if the point is nothing about that. The party lines of this place **proclaim** to be about fighting ignorance. It is no longer about that. It is about being an echo chamber and god forbid anyone have even a slightly different view or, worse, ask questions and present a different view. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/404 "2020-01-10T18:41:43Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Again, this isn’t just about Trumpism. It is about many things. **margin** demonstrated it admirably. I wasn’t defending in any way a Trumpist point of view. But if anyone DARE not be lock step in alignment in condemning those that support Trump and yell the party line that Trump and Trump supporters are to be mocked, they themselves are ridiculed and cajoled, even if the point is nothing about that. > > The party lines of this place **proclaim** to be about fighting ignorance. It is no longer about that. It is about being an echo chamber and god forbid anyone have even a slightly different view or, worse, ask questions and present a different view. What is your opinion about the rw trolling that we are trying to manage reasonably here? If you won’t acknowledge the context wherein liberals here scoff at certain posts as disingenuous, then you are just pushing more propaganda and trying to move the needle. You would like trumpy defenses to go unchallenged? There is nothing about the OP that says you will not get challenged in being that trump defender. But even further: when you play firefly and keep blinking on and off about defending the guy and saying you don’t like him or support him, and then get pissed off when people identify you with trump policies or abuses in defending them…I think you are being unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/405 "2020-01-10T18:50:23Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What is your opinion about the rw trolling that we are trying to manage reasonably here? If you won’t acknowledge the context wherein liberals here scoff at certain posts as disingenuous, then you are just pushing more propaganda and trying to move the needle. You would like trumpy defenses to go unchallenged? > > There is nothing about the OP that says you will not get challenged in being that trump defender. But even further: when you play firefly and keep blinking on and off about defending the guy and saying you don’t like him or support him, and then get pissed off when people identify you with trump policies or abuses in defending them…I think you are being unrealistic. I’ve never defended him. Ever. Show me where I have. Trolls need to be swept away. Try rereading post 120 and see if that aligns with characterizing it as “manage reasonably.” Look at how you are responding to me, right now, when I have _never_ supported Trump and never will, but if I call out others for being in a hive mind and point out how this place is now an echo chamber, I’m accused of being a Trump supporter on some level. This again, is exactly the paradigm this place operates under. Instead of asking, “can you give more examples of how this is an echo chamber” and discussing those facts, it now turns to me having to fend off baseless accusations because I dared not walk the party line. It proves the point entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/406 "2020-01-10T18:57:41Z")
Do you know how many times this place has been called a hive-mind? We have one 8 legged poster that uses that almost as a tick, it’s almost literally every other post of his. There’s a reason that claim and terminology receives eyerolls here. So please, give us examples of how everyone here has the exact same thoughts and speaks in unison. I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/407 "2020-01-10T19:16:46Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Do you know how many times this place has been called a hive-mind? We have one 8 legged poster that uses that almost as a tick, it’s almost literally every other post of his. There’s a reason that claim and terminology receives eyerolls here. > > So please, give us examples of how everyone here has the exact same thoughts and speaks in unison. I’ll wait. I just gave you some. I pointed out post 120 is nowhere near the level of ‘manage reasonably.’ It looks to me, however wrong, someone did try to explain a point of view about how support of Trump could be construed. That was immediately met with that wall of insults. Not a discussion about how those points are baseless or wrong, but instead a screed of insults. I’m not, in any way, saying the conclusions are wrong. I’ve been down this path so I’ll make this extremely clear up front. I DO NOT SUPPORT TRUMP. However, that doesn’t mean I agree with the methods this board is now taking in response to those with differing opinions or, god forbid, someone who isn’t as clear on the facts as everyone else here seems to be. Ask a question? You’ll be accused of being a “concerned \.” It is no longer possible to actually ask any questions without that happening. Either you agree with it all in the entirety or you spend many posts trying to convince everyone you aren’t a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/408 "2020-01-10T19:19:12Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I just gave you some. I pointed out post 120 is nowhere near the level of ‘manage reasonably.’ It looks to me, however wrong, someone did try to explain a point of view about how support of Trump could be construed. That was immediately met with that wall of insults. Not a discussion about how those points are baseless or wrong, but instead a screed of insults. > > I’m not, in any way, saying the conclusions are wrong. I’ve been down this path so I’ll make this extremely clear up front. I DO NOT SUPPORT TRUMP. However, that doesn’t mean I agree with the methods this board is now taking in response to those with differing opinions or, god forbid, someone who isn’t as clear on the facts as everyone else here seems to be. Ask a question? You’ll be accused of being a “concerned \.” It is no longer possible to actually ask any questions without that happening. Either you agree with it all in the entirety or you spend many posts trying to convince everyone you aren’t a troll. None of this has anything to do with “hive-mind”. You quoted one poster. How does one post by one poster prove that everyone here thinks the same? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/409 "2020-01-10T19:37:34Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I just gave you some. I pointed out post 120 is nowhere near the level of ‘manage reasonably.’ It looks to me, however wrong, someone did try to explain a point of view about how support of Trump could be construed. That was immediately met with that wall of insults. Not a discussion about how those points are baseless or wrong, but instead a screed of insults. > > I’m not, in any way, saying the conclusions are wrong. I’ve been down this path so I’ll make this extremely clear up front. I DO NOT SUPPORT TRUMP. However, that doesn’t mean I agree with the methods this board is now taking in response to those with differing opinions or, god forbid, someone who isn’t as clear on the facts as everyone else here seems to be. Ask a question? You’ll be accused of being a “concerned \.” It is no longer possible to actually ask any questions without that happening. Either you agree with it all in the entirety or you spend many posts trying to convince everyone you aren’t a troll. a) It’s just a message board. Even if not one single person agrees with you, right or wrong, you get to go on with whatever position you hold. Nobody has any power over you once you before, during or after the conversation. b) Trump is a polarizing subject. Deservedly so. If you want to discuss things less polarizing, avoid politics. Trump in particular. c) If you find yourself defending an indefensible position and losing repeatedly, re-evaluate your position. Or, you know, drop the subject. d) Are you looking for debate or concurrence? If you absolutely must find agreement with your position, perhaps find a message board that is more aligned with your views. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/410 "2020-01-10T19:40:37Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > None of this has anything to do with “hive-mind”. You quoted one poster. How does one post by one poster prove that everyone here thinks the same? The OP was lamenting the fact that no conservatives are here to defend Trump. Lots of posts about how all the conservatives who have been here are trolls and useless. Everyone nods in agreement that it is impossible to defend Trump. While I agree I cannot see any reasonable defense for what has happened, I can also see why no one would even try to have a discussion on it on this board because of the reactions it is likely to elicit. Do you think **margin’s** response was a fair and reasonable response to someone trying to explain their view? I didn’t see anyone here chastising that response. On the other hand, as soon as I point out responses like that are exactly why no one dares speak against the party lines I’m asked to defend myself. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/411 "2020-01-10T19:47:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The “party lines of this place” is fighting ignorance. By embracing Trump and Trumpism, Republicans have not only doubled down on endorsing ignorance but abandoned all pretense of upholding “polite, intelligent discourse” themselves. > > And then they whine that they’re not still being deferred to with polite, intelligent discourse from the other side? It is to laugh. … ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/412 "2020-01-10T19:47:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > a) It’s just a message board. Even if not one single person agrees with you, right or wrong, you get to go on with whatever position you hold. Nobody has any power over you once you before, during or after the conversation. > b) Trump is a polarizing subject. Deservedly so. If you want to discuss things less polarizing, avoid politics. Trump in particular. > c) If you find yourself defending an indefensible position and losing repeatedly, re-evaluate your position. Or, you know, drop the subject. > d) Are you looking for debate or concurrence? If you absolutely must find agreement with your position, perhaps find a message board that is more aligned with your views. b) I’m not opposed to _discussing_ polarizing topics. This place used to be great for that. c) What position do you think I’m defending or keep losing at? d) I’m looking for discussion. Doesn’t even need to be debate. This place is no longer open to discussion or debate. The only discussions that happen any more is everyone agreeing that Trump is evil. Any other questions about whether or not he might be right once in a while are immediately met with accusations. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/413 "2020-01-10T19:59:26Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I’ve never defended him. Ever. Show me where I have. > > Trolls need to be swept away. > > Try rereading post 120 and see if that aligns with characterizing it as “manage reasonably.” Look at how you are responding to me, right now, when I have _never_ supported Trump and never will, but if I call out others for being in a hive mind and point out how this place is now an echo chamber, I’m accused of being a Trump supporter on some level. This again, is exactly the paradigm this place operates under. Instead of asking, “can you give more examples of how this is an echo chamber” and discussing those facts, it now turns to me having to fend off baseless accusations because I dared not walk the party line. It proves the point entirely. I don’t accept the framing that post 120 is that defining of this place or anything. And you end with this: “It proves the point entirely.” Not strong. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/414 "2020-01-10T20:07:20Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I don’t accept the framing that post 120 is that defining of this place or anything. > > And you end with this: “It proves the point entirely.” Not strong. Show me where I supported Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/415 "2020-01-10T20:12:05Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > The OP was lamenting the fact that no conservatives are here to defend Trump. Lots of posts about how all the conservatives who have been here are trolls and useless. Everyone nods in agreement that it is impossible to defend Trump. While I agree I cannot see any reasonable defense for what has happened, I can also see why no one would even try to have a discussion on it on this board because of the reactions it is likely to elicit. > > Do you think **margin’s** response was a fair and reasonable response to someone trying to explain their view? I didn’t see anyone here chastising that response. On the other hand, as soon as I point out responses like that are exactly why no one dares speak against the party lines I’m asked to defend myself. I’m not **margin** , so I cannot speak for them. I was specifically interested in your claims of hive mind. One poster, in the pit I might add, being harsh to another poster is not evidence of hive mind. Other posters agreeing with that first post does not show hive mind. Do you understand why the term hive mind is ridiculous and unprovable and is only used when posters feel that they are outnumbered? Being outnumbered in a debate is also not hive mind. My point is try to be constructive if you want to criticize the board. Once you say hive mind nobody at all will listen to you. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/416 "2020-01-10T20:16:57Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > b) I’m not opposed to _discussing_ polarizing topics. This place used to be great for that. > c) What position do you think I’m defending or keep losing at? > d) I’m looking for discussion. Doesn’t even need to be debate. This place is no longer open to discussion or debate. The only discussions that happen any more is everyone agreeing that Trump is evil. Any other questions about whether or not he might be right once in a while are immediately met with accusations. b) It still is great for that. But Trump, like Creationism, is a fairly settled subject. c) It was a generic “you”. Substitute the word, “one”. d) Trump is overwhelmingly wrong. Even if he is right about something, he went about it the wrong way or accidentally stumbled upon it. It may sound to you like I’ve just proven your point, but the fact is that Trump is 99% bad, and the 1% good can’t possibly compensate. He lies pathologically. If he happens to tell the truth on a rare occasion, does he stop being a pathological liar? Should he be rewarded for telling the truth? That’s what you’re asking, if you stop and consider your argument. That a pathological liar be rewarded/praised for telling an occasional truth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/417 "2020-01-10T20:27:23Z")
Trumpettes are still screaming “Lock her up!!” _There_ is your fucking “hive mind”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/418 "2020-01-10T20:31:25Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Show me where I supported Trump. You are doing it whenever you bitch about how we don’t support bad debaters as much as we support good debaters. Shit doesn’t not deserve equal treatment with shinola. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/419 "2020-01-10T20:54:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you didn’t read that account, then yes, you missed something. It very clearly described an attempted bribe for Trump’s personal benefit. Can you link to the white house account calling it an attempted bribe? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/420 "2020-01-10T20:56:57Z")
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