# Hello Universe? Can we get some better Trump defenders on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663 "2019-12-31T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/61 "2019-12-31T20:56:01Z")
I look at the stupidity of the pro-Trump distractions as further proof of his overwhelming guilt. Surely if there was any valid defense at all, our local trolls would get it from their Russian handlers and share it with us. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/62 "2019-12-31T21:23:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would ask for some evidence of “Any election of a democrat is a furtherance of those threats,” > > This sounds like hyperbole to me, and would be interested if the hypothetical person was actually serious in contending this. > > Probably would not get far in a reasoned debate with this hypothetical person, since the main thrust of their argument is based on pure emotional hatred, and not on anything that is open to reasoned debate on facts. > > So this hypothetical Trump supporter would not actually be bringing any kind of reasoned discussion. “I hate them other guys and they are evil” does not form the basis of the beginning of a reasoned discussion, no matter which side does it. Dogmatic, sure, but I never said anything about “hate” or “evil”. My point is, the defense of Trump is that he furthered the Republican cause, and if you believe whole-heartedly in the Republican cause, then there is no “personal benefit” or “abuse of office.” Sure it was to help him get elected in 2020, but it’s not like Republicans are going to run a primary. It’s either Trump or a Democrat, and he wanted to hurt the Democrats; therefore Trump’s personal benefit, if any, is irrelevant. This is the problem with the state of political discourse – changing anyone’s mind on a single issue at this point requires you to get them to rethink their entire worldview. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/63 "2019-12-31T21:34:01Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I’m no fan of Bricker, but he’s about the last person here who could be “chased off.” Maybe he got bored with the place. Nobody’s obligated to continue posting here indefinitely. > I’ve never understood why Bricker is considered some kind of model conservative around here. Whenever I noticed him, he was engaging in absurd hyperbole, whataboutism, disingenuous arguments, and silly gotcha games. > > If he was around now, he’d probably argue that what Trump did was technically legal. We’d also hear “What provision of the Constitution do you imagine that Trump has violated?” or some variation thereof. He’d studiously avoid expressing any opinion of Trump’s behavior, and reduce the whole issue to a legalistic question with only one correct answer—which just happens to favor Trump. So you mean he is exactly the person the OP is wishing for a poster who will use actual logic and rules to argue Trump shouldn’t be impeached. As for him being chased away. I remember several posts in the year or so before he left expressing frustration at the board in general for piling on him or saying negative things about him. Sure he didn’t drop a last I’m leaving post like Bone but the dislike this board has for contrary opinions is pretty easy to see. Either way he’s not here to confirm so there is no way to prove if he just randomly decided to play some where else or if he got tired of the shit being flung his way constantly and decided to not come back. In the end we’ve been left with people who like the hatred they receive here which is basically just trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/64 "2019-12-31T21:35:54Z")
I’ve interacted with Trump supporters elsewhere. I’ve been blocked by 4 of them on Facebook - one’s a lawyer. I’m related to some, too. They are all, to a man, stupid. They refuse to read and dismiss any idea that does not comport to their world view as “fake news” (literally, they use that term sincerely!). Their ideas are invariably based on incorrect facts and they are led by their nose by blatantly biased sources which feed them asinine talking points. Some couldn’t write a grammatically correct sentence if you paid them. Others are bigots. None have developed their critical thinking skills. All have petty grievances and are blind to their frequent hypocrisy. Here? You’re getting the best of the best. It’s not much to behold. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/65 "2019-12-31T22:02:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s also sort of pointless to engage in a debate that has the goal of convincing the intellectually dishonest folks that refuse to believe simple sentences mean what they mean. Working through ideas that take paragraphs is an exercise in futility. Now we hear from the guy whose posts are almost all two-liners. Writing an entire intelligible paragraph would be futile! :rolleyes: Comedy gold. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/66 "2019-12-31T22:05:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There is no such person. If they were better, they wouldn’t be defending him. This is the simplest and most correct answer. The conservatives who got banned or stopped posting **were** among the best Trump supporters. They were/are mainstream Republicans now. **Clothahump** ’s evidence-free grievance, **Ditka** ’s disingenuous goalpost-shifting, **Shodan** ’s scattershot shitposting… this is what Republicans are. This is all they have. Today’s conservative thought leaders are Dinesh D’Souza and Ben Shapiro. They’re malignant idiots with slightly above average writing skills. **HurricaneDitka** is the goddamned cream of the crop. And just an aside about the “Never Trump” Republicans. With the possible exception of Max Boot, I don’t think any of them have actually come to terms with the fact that they’ve been fighting on the wrong side of every issue for decades, nor that the modern Republican Party is inherently racist. Almost none of them actually oppose Trump’s actions. They’re pissed that he’s coarse and he’s open about his grift. Never Trumpers like Rick Wilson aren’t arguing against the concentration camps or the white supremacist rhetoric or the judicial amateur hour or the party-over-country politics. They’re arguing that Trump is damaging the Republican brand. If it wasn’t for the tweets and the rambling speeches, and if Trump kept his grift quiet, there would be no Anti-Trump Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/67 "2019-12-31T22:32:56Z")
You folks are operating with the limiting belief that if someone questions information that happens to favor Trump it means they support Trump. How you can’t see that that is limiting is a mystery to me. There used to be a time where if the intelligence community abused their surveillance powers people would be outraged. Not any more if the target of the surveillance is someone connected to Trump. Stay tuned folks, a lot more information is going to come out, the media is already beginning to eat it’s own, just look at the WaPo article with regards to Rachel Maddow. In the meantime keep your head in the sand. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/68 "2019-12-31T22:37:03Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > You folks are operating with the limiting belief that if someone questions information that happens to favor Trump it means they support Trump. How you can’t see that that is limiting is a mystery to me. There used to be a time where if the intelligence community abused their surveillance powers people would be outraged. Not any more if the target of the surveillance is someone connected to Trump. Stay tuned folks, a lot more information is going to come out, the media is already beginning to eat it’s own, just look at the WaPo article with regards to Rachel Maddow. In the meantime keep your head in the sand. Bugger off. You’re the standard measure for Trumpian dishonesty and stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/69 "2019-12-31T23:14:50Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > You folks are operating with the limiting belief that if someone questions information that happens to favor Trump it means they support Trump. No, I’m referring to people who expressly support Trump. Conspiracy theorists like yourself are a whole ‘nother brand of woo. Let me guess: Bitcoin is the next big thing. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/70 "2019-12-31T23:30:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There is no such person. If they were better, they wouldn’t be defending him. This. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/71 "2019-12-31T23:35:16Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > I used to have a dog just fucking like you. Completely useless. He’d shit and piss in his own food and turn around eat it. Useless fucking animal. Just like you. I would still love my dog if he did that. Because he’s my dog and I’m loyal and caring to a fault. In fact, I’m caring for a dog that is dying of cancer now. I don’t mind cleaning up after his accidents. For me, it’s an act of love and appreciation for the countless days I returned home and he greeted me with his wagging tail to make my day a little brighter. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/72 "2019-12-31T23:45:24Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > How was he chased off? He just stopped posting. Was there some last straw that I missed? I think it’s just another variation of the _Victim Card_. He was forced to run away in tears because all Demon-crats and libruls are big mean meanies. Bullshit. Bricker’s gone? So fucking what. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/73 "2020-01-01T01:33:57Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I think it’s just another variation of the _Victim Card_. He was forced to run away in tears because all Demon-crats and libruls are big mean meanies. Bullshit. > > Bricker’s gone? So fucking what. He sometimes wrote informative and thought provoking posts, but I eventually got tired of wading through all the arrogance and bad faith debate tactics to get to them. In Cafe Society and MPSIMS he could be quite engaging. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/74 "2020-01-01T01:58:55Z")
Sometimes **Ditka** seemed almost sincere. But when confronted with a fact disturbing to his preconceptions his brain would have to fart and he would revert to parrot, troll, sealion whatever. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > … the dislike this board has for contrary opinions is pretty easy to see… YES, definitely. The hive mind seldom complains at my politics, often aligned with theirs. But boy when I get into certain topics they come down hard on ME. This is seen most clearly when I’m masochistic enough to get briefly involved in a thread about the Shakespeare authorship. Last time, most posts were even more ignorant than the previous and the hive declared victory when Dr. John Hall’s (Susanna Shakespeare’s husband) writings were found to be a journal rather than letters. :smack: Even now, in another thread they’re displaying a curious deficit of anthropological insight. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/75 "2020-01-01T02:00:01Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Does he actually think our country would survive that? I grant you, there are many things wrong with our government and damned if I know how to fix it, but what he wants to have happen would, I think, wind up with us as a client state of, oh, Russia. I don’t think he’d enjoy that. They don’t care, the Right is composed of people whose main desire in life is to see the people they hate suffer, and are perfectly willing to suffer as well as long as “They” suffer _more_. Hate is everything they are. As the old line goes, they are willing to end up under a bridge eating a rat on a stick, as long as the _other_ guy doesn’t have a rat. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/76 "2020-01-01T03:21:28Z")
Question for the OP: Why do you want someone to defend the indefensible? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/77 "2020-01-01T03:51:17Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Question for the OP: Why do you want someone to defend the indefensible? Not the OP but I think it’s good to have different points of view being intelligently discussed and debated. The problem is that with Trump there is no intelligent debate to be had on the other side. It’s like wanting to have an intelligent presentation of the anti-vax viewpoint; anybody who has that viewpoint is either ignorant of the facts, too dumb to understand the issue, or is aware of the truth but has chosen to tell lies. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/78 "2020-01-01T04:33:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Rand Paul tried the best defense he could on CNN Dec 15. Essentially, he tried the “Trump is just concerned about corruption in general, that is why he asked for a Ukraine investigation into Biden”. > > The reasoning is specious and absolute crap, of course. I can’t imagine that he actually believes what he spouts. But it’s the absolute best anyone could do. > > I can’t blame any intelligent Republicans for not coming to these boards with such a laughable and embarrassing defense of Trump. Point why no one would. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/79 "2020-01-01T07:31:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > ::shrugs:: I’m offering up what strikes me as a sound argument in good faith, sure as I have no interest in falling silent. Do you require something more from me? Where have you done this? I don’t see any argument at all in this thread. This is what you posted: > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Is there a bright-line difference, there? > > Let’s say that I believe removing Trump from office will result in worse policies for the country, and that leaving him in the White House will result in better ones. Let’s also say that enough Senators, who _likewise_ believe that things would be better with Trump remaining in office, vote to acquit. What would be left to say? The obvious answer (to me) would be to explain the reasons why you believe this. You would make an argument for why removing Trump would result in worse policies. You would make an argument for why leaving him in office would lead to better policies. If those reasons are good, then we can have a decent debate. Similarly, that’s what the Senators would need to do. They would need to explain their reasoning, and have it held up to scrutiny. And, given this is required as part of their job, any reluctance to do so would lead me to believe that their reasoning is either bad (i.e. easily refuted) or nefarious in intent (so they wouldn’t want to let people know). While you have discussed some aspects around the periphery, I haven’t once seen you make an actual argument. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/80 "2020-01-01T08:07:12Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > As for him being chased away. I remember several posts in the year or so before he left expressing frustration at the board in general for piling on him or saying negative things about him. That frames the situation as if saying negative things about someone is wrong. It’s not–if those negative statements have merit. People said negative things about **Bricker** because he would continually argue in a dishonest and disingenuous manner. He would play “gotcha” games or use Socratic questioning to imply that he was right and we were wrong. He would crow on and on about his principles and how he engaged fairly when he didn’t. It’s not like people were calling him a horrible person. In fact, many of you were constantly talking about how great and awesome he was (which I never got). He got grief for his arguments and style of arguing, which is exactly what anyone who posts here should expect. I get grief for both of those, too, and I’m not remotely conservative. If \*\*Bricker \*\*was “chased away” by the negativity he got, then that was due to his own stubborn refusal to change how he engaged. I personally tend to think better of him. I choose to believe he started to realize he couldn’t keep on defending modern Republicanism. And so his stated reason for coming here–to work on how to better argue with liberals–no longer applied. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=5)