# Hello Universe? Can we get some better Trump defenders on this board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663 "2019-12-31T13:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/121 "2020-01-02T02:56:27Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ditto. > > That said: “Free _rein_.” Please tell me I did not do that. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/122 "2020-01-02T03:48:20Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You went third party? Yeah, you’re a giant pretentious poseur. > > We have a rapist on the SCOTUS whose hundreds of thousands of debts were paid off by _somebidy_----but you’re gushing as if the White House got new carpet. We DO have a Nazi president, you simpering gibbering walking hemorrhoid. We have Nazis marching in the goddamned streets, running fir office under the GOP flag, and soon we will have no allies left, the way Trump atracks or abandons them. Trump has spoken of ending NATO. Tell me, moron, who benefits if NATO is dissolved? Who benefits when America has no allies left? > > MSNBC and Fox news are not remotely the same, you gaping sphincter. Fox is lying for Trump, 24/7. Just reporting the facts by MSNBC threatens the GOP. If you cannot see the difference you are too stupid to live. > > “Honesty can be refreshing.” > > Says the asshole who obviously never was at risk of James Allen Fields mowing you down. Women, POC, immigrants, Muslims, and LGBTQ folks-----all targets of white boy “honesty”---- could have told you for years what bigots think. Somehow I get the feeling you never asked or cared. > > You’ve been too busy jerking off over how intellectual you are and how _fresh_ and EXCITING Nazis killing people are, how _novel_ it is that abortion is going to be taken away, how nifty it is that lying is now accepted, and how wonderful false equivalency is! > > If I hit somebody over the head with my seventy-year-old gazillion-pound cast iron skillet, you’d call it cooking. > > “But aside from _that_, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?” > > There are no “both sides” here, you lying self indulgent selfish shit stain. The fact that you can airily wave off the caging of children, the sadism, the banning of whole religions, the fucking Nazi sympathizers in the White House, the two times Trump invited Russian operatives—while barred US press into the Oval Office----the constant felation of Putin, the goddamned lies, plus too much to recount here-----with smug, “let them eat cake,” smarm says to me that you don’t give a shit about anybody but white men, who are insulated from the horrors of Trump. > > Shades of Susan Sarandon, Michael Moore, and all the other self indulfent assholes who think of suffering amd revolution as spectator sports. Sarandon does voice overs for an anti-death penalty series on a cable network; Moore’s been a rich scumbag for so long it’s almost funny the way he keeps up the pretense. > > Conservative judge appointments? You mean unqualified nutjobs who hate women, POC, and LGBTQ, to judge by their comments? Judges who’ve never tried a case? “A call for more transparency in medical billing”? We needed to elect this monumental asshole for that?! It’s just another idiotic promise like, “build that wall!” Arms sales to US allies----you mean, only if they slander his rivals? Reduction in taxes-----if you’re rich. More oil drilling without regulation at huge cost to the environment, you mean? Increased defense spending----like when he stole money from military bases for his stupid wall? And do you call it “confrontation” when Trump starts an absolutely idiotic tariff war that hurts American farms and businesses? > > You are a walking syphilis lesion with pretenses of humanity. Michelle Bachmann looks warm and kind and actually sensible next to you, where most of the time she looks like her human skin suit zipper itches because her hubby’s taking a little longer than usual seasoning her rat snacks, thanks to that extra xanax. I wonder if that post can be put to the Grinch song’s music. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/123 "2020-01-02T04:02:16Z")
Of course I don’t defend Trumpists or supporters of the Repugnantican Party, but even liberals who are slightly off-tune get booed down by the hive mind here. And of course it’s not just politics: Five centuries ago, the SDMB would have been vigorously defending the Ptolemaic geocentric model. To avoid hijacking this thread, I’ll just spend a paragraph or two on one example. > [@BigT](#): > > People are fine with you until you dip into conspiracy theory crap… > > Conspiracy theorist logic is bad argument. When it encounters evidence that makes the theory less likely, it comes up with some workaround, and then the belief is actually strengthened. It is a failure of critical thinking… “Crap”, “conspiracy theory”, “failure or critical thinking.” 😃 How many books have you read on the Authorship controversy, **BigT**? What’s your take on the _Sonnets_’ dedication? Or the enigmatic preface to the 1609 _Troilus and Cressida_? “Indecipherable private joke” — that’s the hive party line right? Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg does not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. _All crackpots incapable of critical thinking, right?_ (Good thing we finally got some real intellectuals like Kavanaugh and Alito on the Court, hunh?) (The hive responded: “None of those Justices have Literature PhD’s, whine. ALL Literature experts agree with the hive.” I provide a list of a dozen Shakespeare-specializing PhDs who support an Oxford authorship. “ALL means MOST — don’t you even understand English, whine?”) I’ll await your essay on the _Sonnets_’ dedication. Or are you just a **BigTalker**? ETA: I’ve had 2 or 3 PMs from Dopers supporting my Oxfordian stance. Dopers too smart to say so publicly. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/124 "2020-01-02T04:06:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Of course I don’t defend Trumpists or supporters of the Repugnantican Party, but even liberals who are slightly off-tune get booed down by the hive mind here. And of course it’s not just politics: Five centuries ago, the SDMB would have been vigorously defending the Ptolemaic geocentric model. > > To avoid hijacking this thread, I’ll just spend a paragraph or two on one example. > “Crap”, “conspiracy theory”, “failure or critical thinking.” 😃 How many books have you read on the Authorship controversy, **BigT**? What’s your take on the _Sonnets_’ dedication? Or the enigmatic preface to the 1609 _Troilus and Cressida_? “Indecipherable private joke” — that’s the hive party line right? > > Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg does not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > _All crackpots incapable of critical thinking, right?_ (Good thing we finally got some real intellectuals like Kavanaugh and Alito on the Court, hunh?) > > (The hive responded: “None of those Justices have Literature PhD’s, whine. ALL Literature experts agree with the hive.” I provide a list of a dozen Shakespeare-specializing PhDs who support an Oxford authorship. “ALL means MOST — don’t you even understand English, whine?”) > > I’ll await your essay on the _Sonnets_’ dedication. Or are you just a **BigTalker**? > > ETA: I’ve had 2 or 3 PMs from Dopers supporting my Oxfordian stance. Dopers too smart to say so publicly. Shakespeare was five hundred years ago. Republicans are killing people _today._ Look at those goalposts go! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/125 "2020-01-02T04:22:25Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Of course I don’t defend Trumpists or supporters of the Repugnantican Party, but even liberals who are slightly off-tune get booed down by the hive mind here. And of course it’s not just politics: Five centuries ago, the SDMB would have been vigorously defending the Ptolemaic geocentric model. > > To avoid hijacking this thread, I’ll just spend a paragraph or two on one example. > “Crap”, “conspiracy theory”, “failure or critical thinking.” 😃 How many books have you read on the Authorship controversy, **BigT**? What’s your take on the _Sonnets_’ dedication? Or the enigmatic preface to the 1609 _Troilus and Cressida_? “Indecipherable private joke” — that’s the hive party line right? > > Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg does not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell did not believe Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. > _All crackpots incapable of critical thinking, right?_ (Good thing we finally got some real intellectuals like Kavanaugh and Alito on the Court, hunh?) > > (The hive responded: “None of those Justices have Literature PhD’s, whine. ALL Literature experts agree with the hive.” I provide a list of a dozen Shakespeare-specializing PhDs who support an Oxford authorship. “ALL means MOST — don’t you even understand English, whine?”) > > I’ll await your essay on the _Sonnets_’ dedication. Or are you just a **BigTalker**? > > ETA: I’ve had 2 or 3 PMs from Dopers supporting my Oxfordian stance. Dopers too smart to say so publicly. I like how you just go straight to “smart people agree with me,” and skip the whole, “multiple posters shred my arguments like cheap newsprint” part of the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/126 "2020-01-02T04:51:36Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Totally! > I don’t want to bore my grandkids (circa 2050) with a wall of text…I’m sure they’ll use this to easily research more atrocities. Now I look and I see all the errors. Yikes. For example, Trump claimed Hillary started Birtherism. [This came at the end of a half hour press conference at Trump’s hotel/post office/no-doubt-gilded thing](https://youtu.be/tclsgldzerQ)during which Trump advertised the fucking hotel thing. Then, during the last four minutes or so, he said, “Hillary Clinton started theaaaaahhhh _berthaaaaaaathaaaaaa_ controversy,” at 34.40 or so. Trump’s hatred and jealousy of Obama led him to demand Obama’s birth certificate and school transcripts, even though Trump himself has gone to great lengths to conceal _his._ At Trump’s end of May 2016 press conference, he had Al Baldasaro on stage with him. Baldasaro has said he’d like to put Hillary before a firing squad. He apologized, but GOP apologies are worthless. That press conference itself followed this chain of events. 1.Megan Kelly asked Trump hard questions at the latest debate. 2. Trump sneered at her afterward, as he does at any woman or _girl_ who stands up to him, saying, “She was bleeding out of her eyes, her eyes, her…_wherever_”…as a result of his (what he obviously felt) was his masterful debate performance. 3. He skipped the next debate. Kelly was the moderator. 4. Trump said he would hold an event for “veterans” instead of attending the debate, despite the fact that he himself dodged the draft 5 times, associates with Ted Nugent (another draft-dodging molester of teenaged girls), his attacks on John McCain (even after death), his later attacks on Robert Mueller (a retired Marine who rescued a fellow Marine under heavy fire with a bullet wound in his thigh), his attack on the widow of LaDavid Johnson, and his attack on the parents of Captain Humayun Khan, who put himself between his troops and an IED. 5. He claimed the debate raised six million dollars for vets. Trump has repeatedly booted homeless vets from sheltering near Trump Tower. 6. Trump has [always claimed he donated big money to charity.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-promised-millions-to-charity-we-found-less-than-10000-over-7-years/2016/06/28/cbab5d1a-37dd-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html) Now, however, we know [otherwise.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/18/trump-foundation-shutdown-lawsuit) In reality, he used his “charity” like a personal checkbook. 7. [People began to ask questions](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/what-ever-happened-to-all-that-money-trump-raised-for-the-veterans/2016/03/03/fbafd9a0-e0b2-11e5-8d98-4b3d9215ade1_story.html). 8. And Trump [exploded at being questioned.](https://youtu.be/eJ5kNEL0KzI) After reporters began asking questions----this whole sequence started in January) some of the charities received checks----right before this press conference. He pulled the WaPo’s press credentials, but TACC gets access to the Oval Office, not American press. See how detailed you have to get? With Trump there’s layers of fuckery and whininess and sheer cowardice. The man is craven. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/127 "2020-01-02T05:47:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I like how you just go straight to “smart people agree with me,” and skip the whole, “multiple posters shred my arguments like cheap newsprint” part of the conversation. Cite? Last time — in a thread I didn’t start and didn’t want to participate in except I was named in OP — the alleged “Big Win” for the home team was that Dr. John Hall’s writings were in a “journal” rather than “letters.” :smack: A dismaying amount of the hive team’s “argument shredding” had the form “The book is called _Shakespeare’s Sonnets_. If Oxford wrote it it would be _Oxford’s Sonnets_. Duu-uuh.” ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/128 "2020-01-02T05:58:01Z")
Fuck, can one if the mods correct the fourth quote in post 120? I didn’t close the quote and so my comment on the quote AND the quote itself got melded. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/129 "2020-01-02T05:58:10Z")
Seriously? Y’all are using a thread bemoaning the lack of worthy Trump defenders to argue about who really wrote Shakespeare’s plays? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/130 "2020-01-02T06:46:45Z")
Trumpers know he can’t be defended. Don’t be fooled. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/131 "2020-01-02T07:01:10Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Seriously? Y’all are using a thread bemoaning the lack of worthy Trump defenders to argue about who really wrote Shakespeare’s plays? I had to respond to **BigT** ’s grievous insult. I thought of starting a new thread but wasn’t so masochistic as to go down that rabbit-hole again. It _is_ relevant however. The SDMB hive mind does get ridiculous. Mention that high-tech agriculture methods can disrupt ecology … and be accused of wanting to starve billions of babies. Mention that sickle-cell anemia has non-zero correlation with skin color … and be accused of right-wing bigotry. There’s no excuse for present-day Republicans of course, but even ex-Gopsters who now vote blue out of desperation likely feel unwelcome here. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/132 "2020-01-02T07:14:44Z")
Honestly, **septimus** , I got that you were using the Shakespeare controversy as evidence of the hive mind at the Dope. I think, however, that using that particular issue as evidence is flawed, because relatively few people really care one way or another. Perhaps you just hit a statistical cluster, perhaps many are happy to accept the conventional wisdom simply because it doesn’t materially affect their lives the way politics (in general) does. Now, if you want to say that the Board leans left, I’d certainly agree. Still, within even that group, there’s a great deal of variation, differing opinions on what is important, what should be done, who to support and why. Not really the hallmark of a hive mind. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/133 "2020-01-02T07:26:08Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Just saw this – should preview first. > > I’m not looking for policy defenses, I’m looking for smart impeachment defenses. I tried _very_ hard to make such a defense. The only argument I could conjure was so nuanced and unlikely to be unsalvageable at this point - it seemed a _little_ more realistic back when we were only a couple days into the Ukraine scandal. Basically you 1) assume a strong executive theory, then 2) assume that the President/executive had probable cause both to investigate Hunter Biden and to suspect a server machine in Ukraine shed light on 2016 election interference, then 3) assume the President/executive needed cooperation from Ukraine to pursue those investigations, then 4) assume the Ukrainians had a history of not complying with MLAT requests due to corruption, and finally 5) assume the impoundment of funds itself is not, in this case, an impeachable offense. Admit all five of these points and you have a defense case that narrowly shifts all the blame off the President. The President was presented with a situation where we are about to provide military aid to a corrupt country who by coincidence we need to assist us with a couple investigations. He is advised that if we make Ukraine publicly announce the start of the investigation, they will be forced to commit (or lose face and admit that the new Ukrainian administration is also corrupt). Sounds like we can make a deal! The decision could in this narrow circumstance be made with U.S. interests at heart. But we have a major problem: if there is an exculpatory story, why did the President stonewall the House? I’m having trouble reconciling that with my elaborate and narrow defense. I do think the House was unfair to the minority party as compared to previous impeachment proceedings, but they aren’t _required_ to be fair. There was a flimsy legal argument about the involved committees not having jurisdiction over impeachment, and therefore the subpoenas were without effect, therefore the President did not need to comply. I don’t think this argument ever made it before a court, and it became moot once the House officially resolved to start the impeachment inquiry. There is a flimsier yet legal argument, which I have not seen anybody actually make, but must assume, that the resolution itself is invalid because instead of actually starting an impeachment inquiry it authorizes committees to continue the existing inquiry - the argument is that there was no existing inquiry, therefore there was nothing to continue, therefore the whole thing authorizes nothing, so the committees still have no jurisdiction. A second line of argument assumes that there is some foreign policy or national security basis for claims of executive privilege. The foreign policy basis privilege claim is stronger than saying the explicit House resolution was meaningless, but it’s crippled by the fact that the President impounded funds. And there you have it, the best defense I can conjure. I don’t think this defense meets the threshold of being so likely as to inspire a reasonable doubt. A few days or weeks into October, it might be a stretch. By now, there’s no way. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/134 "2020-01-02T08:04:36Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You went third party? Yeah, you’re a giant pretentious poseur. > > We have a rapist on the SCOTUS whose hundreds of thousands of debts were paid off by _somebidy_----but you’re gushing as if the White House got new carpet. We DO have a Nazi president, you simpering gibbering walking hemorrhoid. We have Nazis marching in the goddamned streets, running fir office under the GOP flag, and soon we will have no allies left, the way Trump atracks or abandons them. Trump has spoken of ending NATO. Tell me, moron, who benefits if NATO is dissolved? Who benefits when America has no allies left? > > MSNBC and Fox news are not remotely the same, you gaping sphincter. Fox is lying for Trump, 24/7. Just reporting the facts by MSNBC threatens the GOP. If you cannot see the difference you are too stupid to live. > > “Honesty can be refreshing.” > > Says the asshole who obviously never was at risk of James Allen Fields mowing you down. Women, POC, immigrants, Muslims, and LGBTQ folks-----all targets of white boy “honesty”---- could have told you for years what bigots think. Somehow I get the feeling you never asked or cared. > > You’ve been too busy jerking off over how intellectual you are and how _fresh_ and EXCITING Nazis killing people are, how _novel_ it is that abortion is going to be taken away, how nifty it is that lying is now accepted, and how wonderful false equivalency is! > > If I hit somebody over the head with my seventy-year-old gazillion-pound cast iron skillet, you’d call it cooking. > > “But aside from _that_, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?” > > There are no “both sides” here, you lying self indulgent selfish shit stain. The fact that you can airily wave off the caging of children, the sadism, the banning of whole religions, the fucking Nazi sympathizers in the White House, the two times Trump invited Russian operatives—while barred US press into the Oval Office----the constant felation of Putin, the goddamned lies, plus too much to recount here-----with smug, “let them eat cake,” smarm says to me that you don’t give a shit about anybody but white men, who are insulated from the horrors of Trump. > > Shades of Susan Sarandon, Michael Moore, and all the other self indulfent assholes who think of suffering amd revolution as spectator sports. Sarandon does voice overs for an anti-death penalty series on a cable network; Moore’s been a rich scumbag for so long it’s almost funny the way he keeps up the pretense. > > Conservative judge appointments? You mean unqualified nutjobs who hate women, POC, and LGBTQ, to judge by their comments? Judges who’ve never tried a case? “A call for more transparency in medical billing”? We needed to elect this monumental asshole for that?! It’s just another idiotic promise like, “build that wall!” Arms sales to US allies----you mean, only if they slander his rivals? Reduction in taxes-----if you’re rich. More oil drilling without regulation at huge cost to the environment, you mean? Increased defense spending----like when he stole money from military bases for his stupid wall? And do you call it “confrontation” when Trump starts an absolutely idiotic tariff war that hurts American farms and businesses? > > You are a walking syphilis lesion with pretenses of humanity. Michelle Bachmann looks warm and kind and actually sensible next to you, where most of the time she looks like her human skin suit zipper itches because her hubby’s taking a little longer than usual seasoning her rat snacks, thanks to that extra xanax. My profile lists my interests as including invective and vituperation; in that spirit, your post struck me as a majestic example of the craft. I wish for you all the caffeine you could desire, surcease from any torments your inner demons may have in store for you, and access to effective and affordable treatment for any and all of your physical ailments. For me, I wish to never make myself a target of your mad verbal abuse skills. P. S. AFAIAC, you can say “free reign” if you want. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/135 "2020-01-02T08:09:51Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/136 "2020-01-02T08:47:24Z")
Yes. Sorry, **galen ubal**. Trump is absolutely indefensible of course. To the point where Board R-voters have to pretend they voted for Nitwit Johnson. _Can we expand the topic to include GOP defenders more generally?_ I allied not far from the Rockefeller-Javits Gopsters in the 1960’s. Spend money to save Wall Street? Of coursesup[/sup]. Let states design their own abortion laws? That’s my plansup[/sup]. If truth be known there are many liberal issues where I might be one dragging his feet. I suppose this makes me more of an Obama- or Clinton-Democrat than a Warren-Democrat. But at this point it’s fatuously silly to call Biden “Republican Light.” Maybe he’s moderate in the sense of Rockefeller-Javits, but at this date, “moderate” among Republicans refers to … _John Kasich!!_ As others point out, “better Trump defender” is an oxymoron, an impossibility. It’s a simple result of Boolean logic that Trump defenders are hypocrites and/or liars and/or stupid and/or sinful and bigoted. I want to see if anyone here can even defend “Republicanssup[/sup]” more generally. So let’s stop with the fatuous {_Biden == GOP Light_}, ok? Notes: 1. Of course the bail-out was designed to placate America’s richest, and not to help homeowners, taxpayers, and the general public. That was shameful. (Part of the problem was the same as Naomi Klein points out … but let’s avoid another rabbit-hole. – Unless some laudable Doper can do it without snark.) 2. Could a Mississippi woman who flies to Nevada for her abortion be arrested when she returns to the Magnolia State? I’ll let SCOTUS work it out if necessary. First expanding it to 15 or 17 seats, mind you. 3. I use “Republican Party” to denote “Republican Party circa 2020.” Start another thread please to brag about how Lincoln freed the slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/137 "2020-01-02T08:48:39Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I tried _very_ hard to make such a defense. The only argument I could conjure was so nuanced and unlikely to be unsalvageable at this point - it seemed a _little_ more realistic back when we were only a couple days into the Ukraine scandal. I’m sure that I could come up with something, but I have no interest in supplying fodder for Team Trump to possibly get their hands on, however unlikely that might be. I appreciate your write-up though. I’m usually too hurried to write something and then edit it back into something readable. Nice to see a cogent and logical review of things. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/138 "2020-01-02T12:51:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > in re: the OP > > That should be the _Lionel Hutz_ trophy… Jeez, I cannot believe I screwed that up!! :o OK, in my lame defense, **UV** may also be a bad actor. You may remember him from such posts as… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/139 "2020-01-02T13:00:09Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I tried _very_ hard to make such a defense. The only argument I could conjure was so nuanced and unlikely to be unsalvageable at this point - it seemed a _little_ more realistic back when we were only a couple days into the Ukraine scandal… Yes, you know what, this completely slipped my mind. I remember that, and remember you debating fairly and addressing the points of people who replied to you (I think you took days, sometimes, but you got to them). So, I think that’s the answer to my thread. Early on, it may have been possible to put up a honest defensive case regarding the impeachment inquiry, but in light of all the further evidence, it’s no longer possible. So, any Republicans with integrity will no longer try to do so (I wish the prominent ones would issue a full-throated call for his removal, of course, but that’s asking a lot, I guess). All that are left are the ones without integrity throwing out distractions (Subpoena Biden! Remove Schiff! Carter Page didn’t do anything wrong!) in order to distract and confuse the voters. Apologies to you, **Max S.** – you’re not even a Trump supporter (I think?) and you gave it a go. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663/140 "2020-01-02T13:31:53Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > The “best” defense I’ve ever heard for Trump was from a guy on one of my FB debate groups: > > “I didn’t vote for Trump because I thought he was a good guy. I voted for him because I wanted to watch DC burn to the ground. And so far, he’s doing a good job of that”. > > A disturbing post indeed. But at least it’s an honest one, and it is not completely with out its merits. That is why I call him [Trumprostrates](https://schumanchu.eu/html/l/l_00042trumprostrates.html), among other names. It is supposed to be an allusion to Herostrates, the arsonist, but it does not work reliably. Actually, it is one of the most educated names I call him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hello-universe-can-we-get-some-better-trump-defenders-on-this-board/845663.md?page=8)