# Hell's Kitchen!!!!!! \[Summer 2009\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 22, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818 "2009-07-22T03:04:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/21 "2009-07-22T15:41:04Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > **Dogzilla** : Check out Anthony Bourdain’s book _Kitchen Confidential_ - his service method is similar to Ramsay’s, but he also talks favorably about a relatively quiet and respectful kitchen of another excellent chef (don’t recall who), and marvels about how it all works out. So it sounds like there’s a variety of styles, but be prepared to take some heat. Missed the edit: I meant similar to Ramsay’s in the “milder” incarnation of him. Supposedly (though I can’t find anything about it right now) Ramsay used to be much worse in his kitchen and went through some anger management or something of that nature. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/22 "2009-07-22T16:04:05Z")
Oh, I can take some heat – if I make a stupid mistake, I expect to be called out for it. Especially where timing and quality are so crucial. I have no problem with “You fucked that up, what were you thinking?” I just don’t see how the personal namecalling is effective, so I’d be interested to hear any anecdotes from people who have worked in kitchens, been called a stupid dolt 20 times a night, and can still wax poetic about what a terrific chef/leader/manager the bully is. If you spoke to your crew like that in any other environment, corporate, skilled trade, whatever… I think you’d have no crew and subsequently, no business. Another thing I wonder: How much training do these people get – especially those with no line cook experience whatsoever – in the terminology and location of stuff in the kitchen? If I sold kitchen equipment for a living and cooked only for my family, I might not have any idea what “mise en place” means, or the difference between a soux chef and an executive chef. If you told me to braise something, and then “finish it in the oven” and I’m little more than a pot-and-pan salesman… is there really no mercy, compassion or understanding for people on that show with zero kitchen experience? I think that’s what bothers me about the namecalling. You’re not an idiot if you didn’t go to chef school and you don’t live on a coast and have never cleaned a fresh shrimp in your life. Just uninformed. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/23 "2009-07-22T16:20:03Z")
I think that, and then I remind myself not to ever go on a reality show where the prize is running a restaurant kitchen. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/24 "2009-07-22T16:41:37Z")
Aww, I felt sorry for JP there…though I did enjoy his muttered comment as they were exiting the storage area. 🙂 I actually liked the repeated re-use of the eliminated girl’s reaction shots in the kitchen…her facial expressions were very fitting with what we got to see of her personality. Yes, Robert looks heavier. I don’t remember the exact name of his heart condition, but I wasn’t under the impression that it would just go away with medication and/or time. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/25 "2009-07-22T16:43:11Z")
[QUOTE=Dogzilla] Another thing I wonder: How much training do these people get – especially those with no line cook experience whatsoever – in the terminology and location of stuff in the kitchen? [/QUOTE] If someone walks into that kitchen not knowing what a meez\* is, look out! To ask for a rag rather than a side towel (and not knowing that you’d have better luck getting side towels from the porter instead of Chef), they deserve a thrashing. Speaking of porters, I really feel sorry for their night porters. These “chefs” are creating some world-class messes and some poor sot has to clean it up. The contestants had to have been given some advance info on the kitchen layout and pantry items. Otherwise, there’s not much chance someone could go into an unfamiliar kitchen and be able to turn out a signature dish in 45 minutes - they’d waste most of the time just rummaging through the pantry and looking for pans and bowls. - _mise en place_, literally translated as “put in place” or your setup of basic ingredients. Professional chefs all have their own preferences of where stuff is at their station, and the idea is that they can reach out without looking and grab what they need. I’m not sure what the worse kitchen crime is - messing with a chef’s personal knives or with their meez. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/26 "2009-07-22T16:52:58Z")
The competition is to be the head chef in one of Ramsay’s restaurants. Even home cooks have no excuse for not knowing what a “meez” (thank you **gotpasswords**! 🙂 ) is or what it’s for, much less various cooking techniques. You go into that show knowing what it’s going to be like. Anyone who wants to try out for Hell’s Kitchen should review previous season’s challenges and especially Ramsay’s common dishes (off the top of my head, Beef or something else Wellington, John Dory, risotto, scallops…) to get an idea of what they’ll be expected to deal with. Reading any ‘life of a chef’-type books (either Bourdain or Michael Ruhlman are good sources) will give you a good idea of terminology basics. Hijack: Speaking as a vegetarian, I don’t ever want to hear another vegetarian go on one of these cooking competition shows and then whine about how you don’t know how to cook some kind of meat because you’re a vegetarian. It’s a competition. They’re not going to set things up differently for you; get some good experience in on various animal products so that you don’t fail utterly. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/27 "2009-07-22T16:56:02Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > So to you, my Doper friends, I ask this: Really? Is it necessary to belittle and dehumanize your kitchen crew in order to get their performance up to your standards? Now, I can see losing your patience and having to yell at someone you’ve already told 15 times, “Scallops get cooked only ONE minute on each side! Two minutes makes a rubber hockey puck! Cook it right or leave!” But I can’t see the motivational aspect of adding, “You fucking idiot” at the end. How is that productive or effective leadership? No, its not necessary, and I worked in a very very busy fast food kitchen. Ramsey’s probably just playing it up for the cameras, as his temper and demanding nature is the point of the show. There are plenty of cooking shows where the chefs are nice, but Hell’s Kitchen’s supposed to be different. I was thinking last night that how could supposedly world class chefs screw up so badly on simple things. I’ve decided its probably due to the unfamiliarity of the kitchen and the fact that cameras are in their faces all the time. Most restaurants arent staffed by 20 new people who have never worked more than an hour in that kitchen, they are staffed with old hands who may bring in a couple of new personnel who are trained slowly until they master it. Nobody hires a new chef and says “Make the restaurant’s house special” without any practice Makes for good TV though 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/28 "2009-07-22T17:03:51Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Makes for good TV though 😃 I tell you whut. Our whole fam-damly was in the living room, laughing and making comments on this show. We\* never\* do that. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/29 "2009-07-22T18:00:40Z")
I’m so interested in cooking that I actually went on eBay and bought one of the Culinary Institute of America’s textbooks (a hefty 1500-pager that also doubles as a weapon). I taught myself how to make seafood bisque from that book! It turns out, I’d been practicing the concept of mise en place for years without ever knowing the actual term for it. When I opened the book to that page, I was proud of myself for having used proper techniques because it seemed logical and obvious. I’d still like one good class on my knifing skills. I own good quality chef’s knives, but my skills are not, shall we say, professional-level quality. The local franchise cooking school doesn’t let you just take a single class. You have to sign up for the entire two-year program and I am not interested in starting a new career at this point in my life. I just wanted to be a better cook at home. But at least I know enough not to call myself a chef. Oh and Ferret Herder: as a fellow vegetarian, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I wasn’t a veg my entire life and my brain has not forgotten how to cook chicken or beef perfectly. What stunned me was all of those chefs carrying around meat thermometers on their sleeves and nobody once ever whipped one out and used it. Hello? I do that when I’m cooking meats for _someone else_ in my veggie house. What kind of moron throws raw chicken back in a sauté pan and thinks “one more minute” will be sufficient to cook it to temp? :: shakes head :: ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/30 "2009-07-22T18:16:54Z")
I get the feeling it’s like basic training (for the army), He’s there to break you down before he can build you back up in his image. The end result is that when he shouts something you don’t sit and think, “hmm, if I do this then that, something else will happen”, rather: “Step 1…go!” It’s a harsh process, but the results have been pretty amazing. Didn’t one of the French trained Masters on _Top Chef Masters_ say that french training is the worst at this. Maybe it was a particular French Chef. Why oh why isn’t abandoning the line considered a capital crime in this kitchen? Last season the woman bailed on the line (well in prep and during service) more than once, and continued to skate past people who made mistakes. Putting the salmon in the freezer is far less of an offense than leaving for 45 minutes. (Only on the account of, she won’t make that mistake again - I kind of wish she had made that argument) ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/31 "2009-07-22T18:39:24Z")
I’ve read Ramsay’s book about his experiences in several kitchens across the UK, and they all seem pretty consistent with what he dishes out. Some of the places he speaks about in the book are even harsher than what he is during the show. The best chefs are undoubtedly perfectionists and they expect a certain standard to be produced. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/32 "2009-07-22T18:47:29Z")
I get a kick out of Robert. It’s like watching a live-action _Family Guy_. The wastage of food on this show kills me. Ruining and having to throw away sea bass? Criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/33 "2009-07-22T18:54:35Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > I’ve read Ramsay’s book about his experiences in several kitchens across the UK, and they all seem pretty consistent with what he dishes out. Some of the places he speaks about in the book are even harsher than what he is during the show. > > The best chefs are undoubtedly perfectionists and they expect a certain standard to be produced. Fine. Then hold me to the standard. Ride me like a wrung-out hooker. But don’t call me nasty names while you’re doing it. Attack my _work_, not _me_. I suppose what you’re telling me is, that in some kitchens, Ramsey’s personal-attack style is de rigeur and even some of the best, most successful chefs in the world treat their people like complete crap because that’s evidently, the best way to get crackerjack performance out of your line cooks. Okay then. :: scratches ‘Hell’s Kitchen audition’ off bucket list :: ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/34 "2009-07-22T18:58:10Z")
> [@FlightlessBird](#): > > Putting the salmon in the freezer is far less of an offense than leaving for 45 minutes. (Only on the account of, she won’t make that mistake again - I kind of wish she had made that argument) Agreed. Ramsay sent the other guy home for messing up the lamb. It would seem that he should have told her that if she was tired, she could have the rest of her life to relax: “Pack your bags”. But, that girl is like Lacey from last year. She seems like enough of a dolt to have entertainment value, so you want to keep her around. ETA: And my guess is the guy that got sent home didn’t have entertainment value so they wanted him gone. Did you notice how Ramsay gave him the hardest station and then refused to let the other guy take over for him? Also last year Ramsay kept giving Lacey the easy garnish station until it was time for her to go… ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/35 "2009-07-23T05:29:14Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Ramsey’s probably just playing it up for the cameras, as his temper and demanding nature is the point of the show. There are plenty of cooking shows where the chefs are nice, but Hell’s Kitchen’s supposed to be different. I’d change that probably to definitely. I’ve seen Gordon Ramsay’s other works (Ramsay’s Kitchen Nightmares especially) and while he does have a hair-trigger temper at times, he’s not cruel just for the sake of being cruel. Remember also that the chefs were given some very basic advice before they even got into the kitchen: make sure your stove is on, check your food before you send it out and don’t crack under the pressure. And this crop of contestants managed to make every single mistake that they were warned in advance not to make! I’d be calling them donkeys too. I think GR might have a bit of a complex from all the abuse he took as an up and coming chef in France. According to his book, the “abuse” he dishes out is nothing compared to what he had to deal with in those Parisian kitchens. So he probably thinks that if he can take it, the contestants should be able to as well. I was blown away by the girl who made him the alcohol soaked French toast with tequila on the side. Does she know nothing about Gordon Ramsay? He hates any chef that drinks on the job and there she is trying to get him drunk! As he would say, sorry sweetheart, that’s not good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/36 "2009-07-23T06:16:27Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I’d change that probably to definitely. I’ve seen Gordon Ramsay’s other works (Ramsay’s Kitchen Nightmares especially) and while he does have a hair-trigger temper at times, he’s not cruel just for the sake of being cruel. Oh, I’d disagree with that. Last year I found and downloaded a BBC show that followed Ramsay trying to get a Michelin star at one of his restaurants (no idea what it’s called anymore). He most definitely treated his kitchen staff with the same abusive disrespect he treats the Hell’s Kitchen contestants. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/37 "2009-07-23T08:55:44Z")
I think you’re referring to Boiling Point, perhaps? I haven’t seen that one but I’ll take your word for it. But was he mean to his staff just to be a bastard in general or was he going off on them for mistakes they were making? Was he criticizing the cooks or the cooking? In any case, I think he deliberately plays up his angry side for this show in particular. In fact, I bet Fox pays him extra for it. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/38 "2009-07-23T18:46:52Z")
My question is this far into Hell’s Kitchen’s run who the hell would go on without learning Gordon’s staples first? You know you are going to have to cook Wellingtons, Risotto and pasta every damn day. Why would you not get these things down pat so that you can get it right without having to think about it? That way you only have to worry about the new shit he will throw at you. and a side note to Joseph: If you have to tell people that you ‘ain’t no bitch’, guess what Jarhead, you _are_ a little bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/39 "2009-07-23T18:52:24Z")
The voice-over announcer guy said that Ramsay has made some changes to this season’s menu. I don’t remember hearing anything about Risotto this time around. The chefs should thank their lucky stars too, because everyone screws that up somehow. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818/40 "2009-07-23T22:09:50Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I think you’re referring to Boiling Point, perhaps? I haven’t seen that one but I’ll take your word for it. But was he mean to his staff just to be a bastard in general or was he going off on them for mistakes they were making? Was he criticizing the cooks or the cooking? In any case, I think he deliberately plays up his angry side for this show in particular. In fact, I bet Fox pays him extra for it. I’ve seen the show (you can watch the entire thing on Youtube in parts) and while he was typical Ramsay, you’re right in that it’s not like he just went off on people for no reason. There was always a reason (and the reason was the staff screwing up). This is a man who has a 5-year-wait to be an unpaid apprentice at his restaurants. If you can’t take the heat, then, well, you know… And beyond that, I believe Ramsay has somewhere of a 80+% retention rate for his employees, which is pretty astonishing in the restaurant world. The reason is that he’s fair, even if he is hot-tempered if you bring that side of him out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hells-kitchen-summer-2009/503818.md?page=3)