It’s for an SAT test prep company, so it’s kind of relevant. But, since (a) my scores are indecipherable and (b) they are 30 years old, I pretty much have to knuckle down and take the modern version of the test. I’ve signed up to take it tomorrow.
I’d like to thank everybody for trying; sometimes these codes are well-known within a specific academic or professional community. Just not this time.
Why is it relevant to your performance of the job? Not getting it, and I am sure my scores, from about the same era, were at least as high as what others have suggested the codes might mean.
Seriously, an SAT Test Prep Company can’t simply ask ETS or whatever it is called for a way to interpret the codes? Why? Because there is a lot of proprietary information presented, and they are too cheap to pay for it, or ETS told them it is not statistically valid for them to use the scores in the manner in which they proposed and so they wouldn’t sell.
Still sounds suspicious to me, if nothing else (and it sounds as though we may be close in age) that they can’t handle the data you provided simply because it is old might indicate they don’t have experience with older teachers or in fact have different HR policies for folks our age, and that ain’t good either.
Just sayin’ it still smells fishy to me…
My daughter and son-in-law spent some time teaching LSATs for a prep company, and their scores on the test are what got them in the door. So, nothing fishy. I’m surprised that they didn’t require a new test from the beginning, since things are quite a bit different these days.
I am not surprised they ask, I am surprised it is relevant to the job performance. Age aside, it is only a marketing thing they are selling. heck, I never took LSATS, but I am sure I could score in the 95th percentile tomorrow. It tests similar material to a zillion other tests. Who cares if I took it or not?
I pursued a different job opportunity, which crashed and burned earlier this week. Checking the Help Wanted ads, I noticed lots of opportunities for SAT Prep firms, all of whom wanted to know their applicants’ test scores. I’m older than most of their applicants.
Not much has changes in English grammar in the past three decades, and what has, mostly relates to the internet and in-text citations. I doubt the same can be said about math (As one recent Math major once said, “We really don’t like using numbers that were invented before 1972”).
Anyway, I’m answering the same ads that 22-year-old job seekers are answering and, when possible, providing the same data. My data just passed the “sell by” date in a few instances. Like my SAT scores.
It wasn’t the only thing they considered, and they gave a fair bit of training on how to teach the course also. However, I’d expect that many a student would ask a teacher what they got on the class, and would be fairly disappointed if was 80th percentile - or nothing.
Demonstrating mastery of a test before you teach it doesn’t seem all that odd to me.
I teach/taught SAT and LSAT for one of the major test prep companies. It’s a great situational gig, and the company I worked for treats their employees very well. (For example, my most recent return to the fold was because they offer insurance to part timers. Not great insurance, but better/cheaper than on my own). YMMV, but I’ve taught in three markets: NY, DC, and now the sticks.
You can’t get in the door teaching-wise (at least in the market I’m in) unless you score above a certain percentile; higher if you’ll be teaching private students. Before you get in a class you need to have scores that are less than five years old. There may be an extension for being a member of the Dope, but I’m not sure.
Asking for scores is just part of the screening mechanism. Especially in today’s climate, they’re not going to spend the time to chase down interpretations – no one who is looking at an application has any reason to know about 10+ year old scoring systems. If they’ve been with the company that long, they’re not screening potential employees.
Current scores (i.e., retesting) is extraordinarily important. They’re reputation is on the line when you get up in front of a class, and your dignity is on the line. It’s not that the math changes per se, but given the nature of the tests, you’ll need to remember everything you ever forgot about a subject — and what better way to gauge where you are than with a practice test? It’s one thing to argue whether SAT scores are predictive of undergrad performance, but it’s a non-starter that SAT scores are predictive of how well you can handle SAT questions.
not_alice, remember that test scores are used to compare top students too — differentiating between those who consistently get in the low or high nineties. Super smartypants all, but 90–95[sup]th[/sup] smartypants and 95[sup]th[/sup] to 99[sup]th[/sup] percentile smartypants. Since most everyone will get those harder questions wrong, it’s more likely that those are the questions students ask about. And there are a lot of questions out there, from the bucketloads of materials we supply our students with to questions they find on their own, so you really need to be adept at answering/explaining things on the fly. Call it marketing if you will, but what would you think of a company in which the teacher was consistently stumped by the test?
If you think you can waltz in and wing an LSAT, great. All they ask is that applicants either demonstrate recent scores or sit in a test center for a few hours and prove it before they invest in teaching you. They also love to cross-teach, since as you said there’s tremendous overlap in the tests.
Really? Seems like marketing hooey to me.
Once a few years back, I was asked by a mutual friend to bail out someone who had taken such a course for GMAT or something like that for grad school admission. she had taken such a course already, the test was in 3 weeks, she was a wreck, and I had never seen that particular test before.
What she got was solid emergency coaching on test taking skills, a whole lot of self-esteem and confidence building, and a little bit of knowledge on the actual material on the test (which was pretty much 7th grade material anyway IMHO and IIRC).
She barely passed, reaching the minimum score the program needed to accept her. Nothing to write home about for her, but it got the job done.
Sorry, I am not buying that you need anything other then test taking smarts to nail most tests, and 30 year old test results are no indication of current skills at all. Heck I often take sample tests just because, including licensing exams, professional qualifications (ask my gf who is studying for her psychologist license how maddening it must be that I can consistently match her colleagues - not here - on the multiple choice sample tests with only a minor in psychology and a lifetime of test taking skills, and they have a PhD and dreams of actually practicing the profession. I wish they would pay me half of what they spend on review materials. I’d give it back if they didn’t pass the first time 
And I never took the test nor am I even qualified to academically.
Approximately what scores does a good/above average SAT preparation firm require for a teacher?
90[sup]th[/sup] or better.
not_alice, I think you’re answering your own flabbergastidy. If you were a mediocre student, wouldn’t you want someone like yourself – someone who gets the test dynamic on an deeply intuitive level – to teach you? Or if you were a high scoring student who wanted to boost your score by a few percentage points, wouldn’t you want someone slightly better/more experienced than you?
Part of what we pass on is the subtle intuitions and test taking instincts that we ordinarily take for granted. Part of that is teaching students to approach the test the way that we naturally do. It’s not about tips and tricks and shortcuts (though there is a small handful of things), it’s about understanding the underlying framework of the test and what it’s doing behind the scenes. What’s natural for you and me is not natural to most test takers. Granted, it can be learned, and the company doesn’t care if you’ve been acing tests since infancy or got there the hard way; they just want their teachers to be there.
When I took the SATs there was no such thing as coaching, since it was before ETS released copies of old tests. And I certainly agree about not understanding how 30 year old tests mean anything. But it appears that some people get something out of the coaching. It doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch for the coaching company to make sure its teachers got over 500 on the SATs though.
Neither one of them had any legal training when they took the LSATs, not that it has anything to do with Law. I don’t doubt that lots of Dopers would do very well on it. I bought a book to give her advice on the puzzle part, and I would have taken the damn thing just for fun except that my daughter would be offended at me competing with her.
BTW, my daughter got a 1600 on the GREs, which she credits to the test taking skills she picked up teaching the LSAT class, and a very useful vocab list her company had. She would have done great anyway, but I’m sure this helped.
BTW2, a lot of her students really needed the help. Not everyone has the test taking skills we have.
Not at all.
I’d want someone who knows how to coach (in the case of SAT/ACT) kids in test taking skills, has appropriate empathy and social intuitiveness to handle a pressure situation flexibly and calmly, and understands and can apply that all to a student’s learning style in the context that the students are there - one on one, in a class, whatever.
That all has shitfuck to do with whether or not said person got a good score on said test 30 years ago or last week, or ever took the test, or frankly is even familiar with the material (if they are really good, and if they are not that good why are they being hired in the first place, flashcards are way cheaper and more predictably qualified for the students for that sort of thing
Fuck no. I want somebody that understand the psychology of the situation because that is where the difference between, say, 75percentile and 80th percentile lives. And that is even more true the further you get up the ladder, and I have a hunch this school is aiming for neurotic but already high achieving kids, right? Playing on their insecurities that they can and must squeeze out a few more points on a test the colleges in their academic range (I hear) are requiring less and less, if at all?
Really, when does the 2 grand or 300 or whatever stop being worth it, and simply becoming a better student, a better person, make for a better applicant?
I hope you get the job, because I am not mean, and also I hope you provide feedback here as you go along, because I am curious.
Just to give you an analogy in case you think someone who is a little better and more experienced is the best teacher, do you think that one year’s Olympians are going to be next year’s coaches? No of course not, coaching is a profession in itself, and it does not require one to have been a top athlete in that or any sport really.
So it is with teaching and test prep.
Yeah, kids want me or someone like me, but not because I got a high score, but because I can teach them quickly and confidently how to handle any test thrown their way. They have already been in school what 11 years by then, they either know the material or they don’t. They need test taking skills to maximize the score based on what they already have in their noggin.
That you or anyone has scored highly is no indicator that you are aware of, let alone can teach such intuition, or even if you have it. I went to a school where the mean and median SAT score was probably between 1300 and 1400. One thing I learned was that we did not all have the same skills or abilities, even if we all had the same score.
I agree that is a great service to sell. I disagree that it is correlated with scores on the test, or that one need have ever taken the test. LSAT, GMAT, and many other tests at that level are little different from the SAT, but who has taken them all? Why couldn’t you teach them without having taken them?
For that matter, I notice we are not talking about AP tests, which IIRC have a more open ended approach to the multiple choice SAT test, and for that matter further I notice that neither you nor I has taken the new SAT which has 3 parts, right? including an essay, and is scored on a scale of 2400, not 1600. Or so I remember reading.
What you have to be an English composition teacher now too?
No kidding, pay attention through HS and you will get that, what is that, maybe 60th percentile? They could throw darts at people and hit that 3 times out of five if everyone took the test and was drawn at random. Who are they marketing to, the other 40% of kids, at least half of whom are not college, maybe juior college material anyway?
And the difference that the extra 100 points meant in her school acceptance rate was what you reckon? She got it for free it sounds like, but you know how much others pay for the chance to gamble they get even that? Is it really worth it?
No kidding about that. See the tale I told above about a trainwreck of a student. Learning what her masters program required, which was little more than being sentient, and seeing her struggles to meet that, jaded me seriously about the value of lesser schools’ programs (and this is a mid level school, not an unknown).
I don’t doubt she doesn’t get in at all without being referred to me, but I have no illusions she could handle the material, or if she could, the value of the degree she would earn. My 5 grade niece could do better on the GRE tomorrow then this woman did after 16 years of school, prep course (twice) and cram with me for a few weeks.
I have no illusion when I see the quality of high schools and below in this country that there is great need for that kind of last minute coaching, but do you sense the disdain I have for what it says about the overall quality of our educational system?
And BTW, it is not like every HS graduate hasn’t been tested 6 ways until Sunday every year for 12 years. Why exactly don’t they have test taking skills by that point again? Have they done any single task as repetitively over their entire grade, middle, and high school career as take standardized tests? Is there one single thing?
Really, WTF, why doesn’t everyone have it by then, and if they sense they don’t have it, shouldn’t parents be teaching that starting in 5th or 6th grade like they teach sports if it is so critical to their education? Why wait until the last minute and drop such pressure on a single course and a single test?
I no reason to disagree with much of what you’ve posted with regards to what makes a good teacher. Knowing the test and the materials is necessary but not sufficient to be a good teacher. It takes a LOT more than simply being a smartypants.