# Help! Evil Muslims are out to get meeeeeee! (For Valteron and Perciful) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476 "2010-06-25T12:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/381 "2010-07-06T20:06:18Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > And how many 30 year old, British female astrophysicists have flown planes into his house or set off nukes at his kid’s soccer game? It just takes one\*. That’s why he’s so afraid. \*OK, fine, it takes two to do both of these things. But you get the point. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/382 "2010-07-06T20:29:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No, the point doesn’t stand. Germans were NOT treated teh same as the Japanese. The japanese were interred based purely on their ancestry while the Germans were interred based on who they were as individuals. What you are proposing is to treat Muslims like we treated the japanese (based purely on an external characteristic) not the germans (based on who they were as individuals). I’m glad you posted this, as it gives me an opportunity to point out one gross mischaracterization. You actually have it flipped around. The idea I’ve been putting forth is NOT akin to how we treated the Japanese. It is much more like (though identical) how we treated the Germans. Their being German was used as the first sieve. We then looked more closely at the individuals in the pool and culled out large swaths who we thought were not a threat. I’m sure there were subsequent siftings that moved sub-groups into the “not a threat category”, and then, finally, scrutiny was applied on an individual basis. THAT methodology is what I’m suggesting. The first part of it, specifically. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/383 "2010-07-06T20:35:05Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If you weren’t so fucking stupid you might stop to think what this entails. How do you monitor the type of mosque a given Muslim goes to? Do you require a form stating what mosque you attend? Do you have FBI watching all mosques in America? Do you want enough surveillance to get a name on each of the attendees? Are you actually that dim? I’m sure the FBI is watching mosques they deem to be potential threats, or helpful in identifying those who are threats. And how do you think they determined which mosques to watch? Do you think they might have started with a broader list, of say, places where radical Muslims might worship, i.e., MOSQUES?! Of course they did. They started with a list of mosques and then crossed those off the list that they deemed were less of a threat. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/384 "2010-07-06T20:37:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It behooves us to look at everyone to discern which of them is a murderous radical, dipshit. No, it doesn’t. There is an established threat from radical Islam. If you want to prevent the next attack, why would you want to look at 300 million people rather than 2.5 million? That makes zero sense. You’re intentionally making your job over 100 times harder. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/385 "2010-07-06T20:39:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And right up until 9/11 the Oklahoma City bombing was the worst terrorist attack on American soil. Should we treat white Republicans the same way you suggest we treat Muslims? because it is clear his radical political ideology was as much (if not more of) a factor in his actions than religion was a factor for the terrorists on 9/11. [QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi] But they do park vans full of explosives in the underground parking lot of federal buildings in Oklahoma City. [/QUOTE] His non-Republicanism aside, as I pointed out before, one incident does not a pattern make. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/386 "2010-07-06T20:45:36Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I’m sort of at a loss to understand why this **magellan** guy’s fear of Muslims should inconvenience anyone but this **magellan** guy. The use of the word ‘barbarity’ makes it pretty clear that his is a knee jerk (it’s been almost ten years, get over it) reaction to 9/11 and not a serious argument regarding national security. This guy is aware that 9/11 is not an isolated, or last, incident. For instance, are you unaware of the failed attempt in Times Square? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/387 "2010-07-06T20:51:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well, because you’re Muslikm and therefore you bear SOME repsonsibility for everything that any Muslim does in the name of Islam. And even if you don’t bear and direct responsibility, you should be treated that way because from a utilitarian point of view we increase societal welfare by traeating you that way because the inconvenience you suffer is not nearly as great as the relief that the most irrational and the stupidest amonst us feels when we get to treat you that way. And even if the inconvenience to you personally is greater thant eh relief to anty stupid people personally, there are a lot more irrational, stupid people (I beleive there are about 55 million registered Republicans) than Muslims (a couple of million give or take). Here’s a simple hypothetical I’d like you to answer: if something inconvenienced you personally 1%, yet made everyone in your society 1% safer, would you be willing to subject yourself to that 1% inconvenience? I’d appreciate a direct answer to that. From you and others, if they are so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/388 "2010-07-06T20:53:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Political correctness (or blind political correctness) is not usually characterized by adherence to constitutional values. You do recognize that what you are proposing is illegal and unconstitutinal right? Your argument is that the exigencies of the current situation warrant bending the rules a bit. Opposition to that isn’t political correctness. What, specifically, have I proposed that is either illegal or unconstitutional? Please not the word, “specifically”. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/389 "2010-07-06T20:54:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Three hundred thousand million people in the US? Whoah! The population has really exploded since the last time I looked. > > Must be all those Mexicans sneaking across the border. :smack: The border is more porous than I feared. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/390 "2010-07-06T22:07:27Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m sure it was **Korans** and not **Koreans**. I can’t imagine Muslims having any objection to stepping on a Korean. Hey, **ivan** , if you look up fast enough, you might see a joke\* whooshing past over your head. \*And a reference to an old thread with another disgusting racist like our neighbor **magellan01** , who, if we’re lucky, will follow the unlamented **Silverstreak Wonder** into the oblivion of bannination. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You could cut it even further by pretending we live in a constitutional democracy. _Zing._ > [@Miller](#): > > Must be all those Mexicans sneaking across the border. They drop their Koran Bibles all over the place, too. > [@magellan01](#): > > The idea I’ve been putting forth is NOT akin to how we treated the Japanese. It is much more like (though identical) how we treated the Germans. Oh, we’re at war with the Sovereign Nation of Muslims, are we? Please do let me know when you can find it on a map and tell me who’s in charge. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/391 "2010-07-06T22:17:15Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > And how many 30 year old, British female astrophysicists have flown planes into his house or set off nukes at his kid’s soccer game? That’s not the right question. The correct question is this: How many 30 y/o, British, female, MUSLIM astrophysicists have flown planes etc? And not only are you furrin, yer some kind of a scientist–skeery folk, them–AND not Christian to boot! (and for all I know, he’s got a thing about women in their place–it’s hard to discern crazy from Crazy). ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/392 "2010-07-06T22:49:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What, specifically, have I proposed that is either illegal or unconstitutional? > > Please not the word, “specifically”. What, specifically, have you proposed? Until you answer this oft asked question, we can’t give you a specific response. > [@magellan01](#): > > First, I’ve said nothing about monitoring anyone. Given that monitoring people is not part of your plan (as above) you might be unhappy to hear that authorities have already found ways to monitor radical Muslims and those they come into contact with, rather than tar all Muslims with the ‘could be radical’ brush. […the security services make a crucial distinction between those who are suspected of active links to the Bin Laden network and those who preach jihad in mosques and other forums but go no further than that. The British security service has tended to concentrate its monitoring on those young Muslims known to have gone abroad to fundamentalist training camps.]([BBC News | UK | Monitoring radical Muslims in the UK](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1730422.stm)) ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/393 "2010-07-06T22:50:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I disagree. We have identified a threat: that some Muslims want to kill Americans (as evidenced by the list earlier). It makes sense that we would try to prevent that group (those who want to kill, or abet in the killing of, Americans) from further success. So right off the bat, we can narrow our scope from the 300,000+ million people in the U.S. and concentrate on about 2.5 million. Sounds like a very effective first step, if you ask me. You’ve cut the threat to less than 1% of the population. But that isn’t what you’ve done - for one thing, those some Muslims aren’t the only threat. It only makes sense to cut down to that number if there is some overall greater proportional threat, which I don’t think you’ve proved. The point though is that some ten fingered people are also a threat; but that information doesn’t really do us a massive amount of good. It’s not helpful information. Now, there are less American Muslims than ten fingered people in the U.S., but how do we know that that smaller number still contains some use, in proportion to the threat? You may be able to look at a smaller number, but that’s still _millions_. > [@](#): > > And again, I think you really need to look an intent. What is the _intent_ of Powell’s Shock and Awe Doctrine? It is to show the military and political leadership of a country that the military might of the U.S. cannot be withstood, so you best give up pronto. It’s intent is not to kill innocent civilians. If it were, schools and hospitals and markets would be the actual targets—and easy ones at that. Not only are they not the targets, considerable steps are taken to accomplish “Shock and Awe” while _minimizing_ the deaths of innocents. But the intent of many acts we’d consider terrorism isn’t simply the deaths of civilians - it’s to send a message. To cause terror, in fact - you’re not causing terror in the people you kill, because they’re dead. You’re causing terror for everyone else. The intent of Shock and Awe in that instance was very much to cause terror - the phrase is a pretty good synonym, really - not just for the military and political leadership, but civilian population too. Now, certainly, there is a difference between killing civilians incidentally and killing them purposefully - and between killing incidentally and taking effort to avoid killing incidentally as much as possible. But, likewise, I would imagine a considerably higher acceptance of such acts by the general public. It’s a sliding scale. I really do think that, presented with a similar question phrased such to avoid hinged-on words, you’d get a pretty similar result. I think it’s like the old Milgram experiment; one group of people did something horrific, but it’s ok, because it was unique to those people. Except that when you actually study people, it’s a pretty widespread phenomenon. > [@](#): > > I look at the threat identified by the list offered earlier. I conclude that I would like those things to be stopped or minimized. To do so, I wonder if there is a pattern. I see a pattern in that all were committed by Muslim radicals. I cannot identify that group specifically, so I see if there is a group I can identify. There is, because in the U.S., Muslims represent less than 1% of the population. I see that as a great starting point for scrutiny. As I look more closely, I can focus more effectively (after I become Emperor). But what percentage of American Muslims have shown themselves to be a threat? I mean, if Muslims make up 1% of all Americans, but those who have shown themselves to be a threat make up a decimal of a percentage of American Muslims, then it doesn’t really make any more sense to put extra scrutiny on Muslims, no more than it would do to put extra scrutiny on ten fingered people. That one is a \*smaller \*number does not guarantee that it is a \*small enough \*number. Beyond that, why is it the “Muslim” part of “Muslim radicals” that is the more useful bit? It seems to me like the radical bit might be the more helpful point. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/394 "2010-07-06T23:06:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You are precious. You now insist on defining what **elanorigby** meant by “do that” _and_ what I interpreted her to mean by it. Your powers of divination so eager to flex their muscles, you then insist on defining “same thing” in a way that I _must_ be wrong, even when I pointed out there is a more logical reference (the fact of internment, plain and simple) in which my statement is not only completely correct, but unspectacular in the fact it was conveying. > > But I expect nothing less from one of the lead Muslim apologists on these boards. Keep up the good work. Because every Muslim is deserves just as much scrutiny as every Quaker. You are so cute when you are displaying your bigotry. I am not defining what **elanorigby** or you wanted to say . I am simply responding to your error, pointing out that regardless of any spin and twist you want to place on it, the U.S. did not do the “same thing” to separate groups. The phrase “German-Americans” refers to U.S. citizens just as “Japanese-Americans” refers to U.S. citizens. The “same thing” was not done to both groups. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/395 "2010-07-06T23:09:08Z")
If evil Muslims are not out to get you, you’re not trying hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/396 "2010-07-06T23:25:02Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > What, specifically, have you proposed? Until you answer this oft asked question, we can’t give you a specific response. :eek: Are you friggin’ kidding me? **Damuri Ajashi** made a claim that what I was proposing was illegal and unconstitutional. Knowing that to not be the case, I asked him to point out, specifically, what I had proposed that was illegal and unconstitutional. And now you come in and say that one can’t come up with anything because I…(wait for it)…haven’t proposed any such things. In fact, I haven’t proposed anything for which legality or constitutionality can even be weighed! I guess I should thank you, because you’ve made my point to **Damuri Ajashi** and have shown his statement to be false. So, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/397 "2010-07-06T23:33:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You are so cute when you are displaying your bigotry. And now we get to play this little game with you. Here is what you were referring to. [QUOTE=magellan01] You are precious. You now insist on defining what elanorigby meant by “do that” and what I interpreted her to mean by it. Your powers of divination so eager to flex their muscles, you then insist on defining “same thing” in a way that I must be wrong, even when I pointed out there is a more logical reference (the fact of internment, plain and simple) in which my statement is not only completely correct, but unspectacular in the fact it was conveying. But I expect nothing less from one of the lead Muslim apologists on these boards. Keep up the good work. Because every Muslim is deserves just as much scrutiny as every Quaker. [/QUOTE] Please point to the instances of bigotry. Anything yet? How about now? That’s okay. I’ll wait > [@tomndebb](#): > > I am not defining what **elanorigby** or you wanted to say . I am simply responding to your error, pointing out that regardless of any spin and twist you want to place on it, the U.S. did not do the “same thing” to separate groups. The phrase “German-Americans” refers to U.S. citizens just as “Japanese-Americans” refers to U.S. citizens. The “same thing” was not done to both groups. And we’re back to Square 1: define “same thing”. You can define it in a way that you are correct. And I can define it in a way that I am correct. But in your rush to the defense of PC stupidity concerning Muslims, you simply must define it in a way that I was wrong. I can’t tell you how shocked I am. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/398 "2010-07-06T23:53:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > :eek: Are you friggin’ kidding me? **Damuri Ajashi** made a claim that what I was proposing was illegal and unconstitutional. Knowing that to not be the case, I asked him to point out, specifically, what I had proposed that was illegal and unconstitutional. > > And now you come in and say that one can’t come up with anything because I…(wait for it)…haven’t proposed any such things. In fact, I haven’t proposed anything for which legality or constitutionality can even be weighed! > > I guess I should thank you, because you’ve made my point to **Damuri Ajashi** and have shown his statement to be false. So, thanks. I wouldn’t be so quick to congratulate yourself. You are HINTING at things which look like they may be unconstitutional (not being American I’m not intimately familiar with its intricacies, but freedom of religion, and innocent before proven guilty seem to things you wish to challenge). But until you are SPECIFIC about what you are proposing it would be difficult to give you a complete breakdown of how it is unconstitutional/legal. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/399 "2010-07-06T23:54:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Please point to the instances of bigotry. Every post you have made regarding your need to be “wary” of the eeeevul mooslims, (carefully without, of course, actually explaining how we could do that.) > [@magellan01](#): > > And we’re back to Square 1: define “same thing”. You can define it in a way that you are correct. And I can define it in a way that I am correct. But in your rush to the defense of PC stupidity concerning Muslims, you simply must define it in a way that I was wrong. > > I can’t tell you how shocked I am. There is no way that you can defend your claim honestly. U.S. citizens of German descent were not treated the “same way” as U.S. citizens of Japanese descent. They simply were not, regardless how you try to twist and spin your definitions. The phrases employed were “German-Americans” and “Japanese-Americans” and those terms mean citizens. Had the terms employed been “Germans in America” and “Japanese in America,” you could gotten away with it, but those were not the words used and you are simply wrong. I do not expect you to be shocked; you have pushed hatred and distortion on this board for years and I do not ever expect you to be shocked when posters providing the facts to contradict your odd beliefs rebut your false claims. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/400 "2010-07-07T00:01:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This guy is aware that 9/11 is not an isolated, or last, incident. For instance, are you unaware of the failed attempt in Times Square? I’m pretty sure it wasn’t the last as well, but it’s probably what made you scared of Muslims. Regardless, your cowardice is still no one’s problem but yours. I understand that you’re afraid, I just don’t see why anyone else should be the least bit inconvenienced by it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476.md?page=21)