# Help! Evil Muslims are out to get meeeeeee! (For Valteron and Perciful) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 25, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476 "2010-06-25T12:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/561 "2010-09-22T19:12:50Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > Actually, no, I don’t believe that. And that has nothing to do with the topic. But thanks, anyway. > > It has everything to do with the topic, because you just demonstrated that you believe _the killing of innocents is and can be justified_. You’re forgetting the key concept: intent. And I already told you that I don’t agree with the premise of you initial reply. So feel free to rail to the high heavens while ignoring what I’ve written. I’d ignore them too if I were you. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/562 "2010-09-22T19:28:40Z")
**magellan01** , life here would be so much easier if you simply limited yourself to the following form post: “I’m a fucking retard with no consistency or logic in my opinions. Please disregard anything I shit out of the orifice I choose to call a mouth.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/563 "2010-09-22T19:34:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You do realize that McCarthy was correct, right. There were, in fact, Communists in the government. That’s fodder for another thread, but in case you’re interested, [here.](http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23478) I think you’ve failed to grasp the fundamental problem with the actions of Senator McCarthy. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/564 "2010-09-23T02:08:43Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > **magellan01** , life here would be so much easier if you simply limited yourself to the following form post: “I’m a fucking retard with no consistency or logic in my opinions. Please disregard anything I shit out of the orifice I choose to call a mouth.” Stupid head! And just so you know, doing an imitation of **Lobohan** is not something that is likely to make you look smart-er. Or in your case, even smart. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/565 "2010-09-23T02:10:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > You do realize that McCarthy was correct, right. There were, in fact, Communists in the government. That’s fodder for another thread, but in case you’re interested, [here.](http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23478) > > I think you’ve failed to grasp the fundamental problem with the actions of Senator McCarthy. Do you think history has treated him fairly? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/566 "2010-09-23T12:00:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > I think you’ve failed to grasp the fundamental problem with the actions of Senator McCarthy. > > Do you think history has treated him fairly? I think so: as we’ve already proven, regardless of the true degree of Soviet infiltration into the government, said Soviet infiltration was not able to prevent our ultimate victory in the Cold War. Therefore, it was never worth McCarthyist (or should I say, Stalinist) tactics of accusation, blacklisting, and interference with freedom of conscience because even without said tactics we handily won. As an American, I feel I have no choice but to support the freedom of Communists to be Communist and the freedom of Muslims to be Muslim, both without ANY interference until they break an actual law as opposed to mere membership in the “suspicious group of the month” club. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/567 "2010-09-23T13:12:11Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > Do you think history has treated him fairly? > > I think so: as we’ve already proven, regardless of the true degree of Soviet infiltration into the government, said Soviet infiltration was not able to prevent our ultimate victory in the Cold War. Therefore, it was never worth McCarthyist (or should I say, Stalinist) tactics of accusation, blacklisting, and interference with freedom of conscience because even without said tactics we handily won. > > As an American, I feel I have no choice but to support the freedom of Communists to be Communist and the freedom of Muslims to be Muslim, both without ANY interference until they break an actual law as opposed to mere membership in the “suspicious group of the month” club. Can you run in California and Canada, so I can vote for you twice? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/568 "2010-09-23T14:43:11Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > Do you think history has treated him fairly? > > I think so: as we’ve already proven, regardless of the true degree of Soviet infiltration into the government, said Soviet infiltration was not able to prevent our ultimate victory in the Cold War. Therefore, it was never worth McCarthyist (or should I say, Stalinist) tactics of accusation, blacklisting, and interference with freedom of conscience because even without said tactics we handily won. What blacklisting? He was looking at Communists, potential spies, in the government. and he was right, there were were spies there. Starting with Alger Hiss, who was in the upper-most echelon of government. Also, while your analysis doesn’t “prove” anything, it seems to argue that we shouldn’t be concerned with spies, even when there is information that a particular government who is not a friend to the U.S. has infiltrated our government. Your argument seems to boil down to: “America is so great and strong we needn’t worry about spies. After all, the U.S. survived a major incident of spying from the Soviets. So, McCarthy was a bad man because he thought wanted said spies to be found out and removed.” [QUOTE=Zeriel] As an American, I feel I have no choice but to support the freedom of Communists to be Communist and the freedom of Muslims to be Muslim, both without ANY interference until they break an actual law as opposed to mere membership in the “suspicious group of the month” club. [/QUOTE] Spying for another government is against the law. Particularly if you work in the government. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/569 "2010-09-23T15:16:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And just so you know, doing an imitation of **Lobohan** is not something that is likely to make you look smart-er. Or in your case, even smart. I don’t do imitations–just satire. If two users happened to have independantly had the same reaction to you, perhaps you should give greater weight to the validity of our suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/570 "2010-09-23T15:39:36Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > And just so you know, doing an imitation of **Lobohan** is not something that is likely to make you look smart-er. Or in your case, even smart. > > I don’t do imitations–just satire. If two users happened to have independantly had the same reaction to you, perhaps you should give greater weight to the validity of our suggestions. You may want to look up the word “satire”. Stupid Head. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/571 "2010-09-23T15:43:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You may want to look up the word “satire”. Stupid Head. You may want to find anywhere that I said \*this \*was satire, retard. My point, since you’re too thick to get it on your own, was that I don’t do imitations, only satire, _and since this clearly wasn’t satire, it must be something I’m doing on my own without reference to anyone else_. Sorry, I try to set the bar pretty low, but you keep tripping over it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/572 "2010-09-23T20:00:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What blacklisting? He was looking at Communists, potential spies, in the government. Keyword being “potential.” Call me a wild-eyed idealist, but I have a problem with persecuting people for crimes they _might_ commit. Just being a communist doesn’t make one a spy. For that matter, not being a communist doesn’t guarantee that one isn’t a spy. The vast majority of spies during the Cold War were not ideological. They didn’t turn their coat because of a deep devotion to Karl Marx. They did it because the USSR offered them a fat sack of cash. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/573 "2010-09-23T20:13:50Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > You may want to look up the word “satire”. Stupid Head. > > You may want to find anywhere that I said \*this \*was satire, retard. My point, since you’re too thick to get it on your own, was that I don’t do imitations, only satire, _and since this clearly wasn’t satire, it must be something I’m doing on my own without reference to anyone else_. > > Sorry, I try to set the bar pretty low, but you keep tripping over it anyway. Thank goodness you know what satire is, since you claimed it’s what you do. I’ll have to keep an eye out for it. Evidently you also do mindless 2nd grade insults, a la the near content-free **Lobohan**. Like it or not, he owns it, like Henny Youngman and Sheckey Green own Catskill humor. But if you plan to disassociate him with that leading spot, that’s up to you. I think you might have a shot, as you seem to have a natural talent for it. (That talent mainly being a lack of others.) Good luck, Stupid Head! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/574 "2010-09-23T20:16:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > What blacklisting? He was looking at Communists, potential spies, in the government. > > Keyword being “potential.” Call me a wild-eyed idealist, but I have a problem with persecuting people for crimes they _might_ commit. Just being a communist doesn’t make one a spy. For that matter, not being a communist doesn’t guarantee that one isn’t a spy. The vast majority of spies during the Cold War were not ideological. They didn’t turn their coat because of a deep devotion to Karl Marx. They did it because the USSR offered them a fat sack of cash. He had information that there were spies in the government. (_Correct_ information.) The fact that the flavor of spy in that day would be communist an accident of the times. He wanted them rooted out. As well he should, no? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/575 "2010-09-23T20:56:13Z")
You just keep getting more and more disgusting, **magellan01**. I wonder if [tshirthell.com](http://tshirthell.com) still makes their “Arrest Black Babies Before They Become Criminals” tee–it would be perfect for you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/576 "2010-09-23T21:13:56Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > You just keep getting more and more disgusting, **magellan01**. I wonder if [tshirthell.com](http://tshirthell.com) still makes their “Arrest Black Babies Before They Become Criminals” tee–it would be perfect for you. Another thick-crayoned insult?!:eek: I can’t tell you how shocked I am, Stupid Head. SHOCKED! What else you got? Come, surely you can do better. Dial up the satire, since you claim it’s a forte of your, so I can get something out of your posts. By the way, is it possible for you to post something actually on point? You injected yourself into a discussion about the percentage of Muslims who think that the _intentional_ killing of _innocents_ is hunky dory, but have yet to comment on that claim that you evidently found so compelling. Why is that, Stupid Head. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/577 "2010-09-23T21:25:51Z")
It’s like watching a toddler get all worked up, except a toddler can’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/578 "2010-09-23T22:14:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > He had information that there were spies in the government. (_Correct_ information.) The fact that the flavor of spy in that day would be communist an accident of the times. He wanted them rooted out. As well he should, no? If he had information about a specific person being a spy, and he went only after that person, that would be fine. But that’s not what he did. He attacked anyone who had any sort of connection to the communist party, no matter how tenuous, as a spy, based solely on that political connection. That he may have inadvertently caught a few actual spies doing this does not excuse his tactics. And I’m not convinced that he ever found any for-real spies in significant numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/579 "2010-09-23T22:25:31Z")
What Miller said. To amplify: if they’re spies, bring them to court and charge them with treason. If they’re merely communists, leave them the hell alone. Substitute “Muslims” and “terrorists” in that sentence as appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476/580 "2010-09-23T23:26:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > He had information that there were spies in the government. (_Correct_ information.) The fact that the flavor of spy in that day would be communist an accident of the times. He wanted them rooted out. As well he should, no? > > If he had information about a specific person being a spy, and he went only after that person, that would be fine. But that’s not what he did. He attacked anyone who had any sort of connection to the communist party, no matter how tenuous, as a spy, based solely on that political connection. That he may have inadvertently caught a few actual spies doing this does not excuse his tactics. And I’m not convinced that he ever found any for-real spies in significant numbers. This. I cannot _believe_ that anyone pretending to be a sane human being is defending McCarthy. Even if you wanted to use the exact same tactics as him (which I gather is the plan), one should want to distance themselves from McCarthy as much as possible, because with the bright light of retrospect on him, _McCarthy was obviously completely full of shit_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-evil-muslims-are-out-to-get-meeeeeee-for-valteron-and-perciful/544476.md?page=30)