# Help gun nuts describe their views **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873 "2015-08-03T11:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/41 "2015-08-04T00:00:21Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So tongue-in-cheek irony is comkpletely lost on you. Got it. Alternatively, tongue-in-cheek irony is not your forte. Alternatively even more, I call bullshit on that part of your OP being tongue-in-cheek at all. In fact, if I had a gun, I’d find a 2nd amendment solution to that part of your OP right here and now! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/42 "2015-08-04T00:08:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Alternatively, tongue-in-cheek irony is not your forte. Alternatively even more, I call bullshit on that part of your OP being tongue-in-cheek at all. In fact, if I had a gun, I’d find a 2nd amendment solution to that part of your OP right here and now! This is why I consider you a pretentious twit who isn’t nearly as smart as he thinks he is. And you delight in stupidly imputing ignorances or missteps to me, your intellectual superior in every way. I’ll concede that I am much smarter than many Dopers think I am. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/43 "2015-08-04T00:12:07Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ll concede that I am much smarter than many Dopers think I am. 😛 So you test out at dull-normal? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/44 "2015-08-04T00:23:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Let’s try a multiple-choice question. > Question 2. What are your views on the Second Amendment? Pick the response that comes closest. > (A) It’s similar to Leviticus 11:3. “You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.” Yes, my atheist and pagan friends tell me rabbit is delicious, but rabbits don’t have a divided hoof. It’s not mine to question why Jehovah doesn’t want me to eat it. > Similarly, the same Jehovah inspired the Constitution writers and encouraged us to have guns. It doesn’t matter why. If cops kill a hundred civilians every month, babies kill babies and family members mistakenly shoot each other in the dark, that’s just a price we happily pay for obeying Jehovah. > (B) Same as (A), but substitute “the ineffable wisdom of the Founding Fathers” for Jehovah. We Americans want and need our guns: think of Dodge City or Deadwood. (Nevermind the left-wing revisionists who insist that these Wild West towns enforced gun control!) > (C) Yeah, those Fathers seem pretty stupid by now, and I’m glad we gave the niggers back the extra 2/5 of their personhood, but those were different times. Unfortunately, guns are ingrained in our DNA by now. Since most of you are packing heat ready to shoot me if I brandish a lit cigarette or something, I’ve got to carry a gun in self-defence. > (D) People who think the Second Amendment describes a “God given right” aren’t very smart. Humans are fallible and conditions change. If guns are good, fine – debate them on their merits. Don’t just hide behind blither and blather that puts an 18th-century law on some special pedestal. These are the only choices you see? 😛 Sorry, but this ‘debate’ would be better served in the Pit, or you should try and craft something less poisoned if you want a real discussion, besides a bunch of ‘gun nuts’ getting bent out of shape and a bunch of left wingers or non-Americans doing the echo chamber thingy. There really is a middle ground between frothing gun nuttery and foaming gun fear and grabbage. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/45 "2015-08-04T00:28:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > This is why I consider you a pretentious twit who isn’t nearly as smart as he thinks he is. And you delight in stupidly imputing ignorances or missteps to me, your intellectual superior in every way. > > I’ll concede that I am much smarter than many Dopers think I am. 😛 And this thread is the best proof there is of that! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/46 "2015-08-04T00:30:21Z")
> [@XT](#): > > These are the only choices you see? 😛 Sorry, but this ‘debate’ would be better served in the Pit, or you should try and craft something less poisoned if you want a real discussion, besides a bunch of ‘gun nuts’ getting bent out of shape and a bunch of left wingers or non-Americans doing the echo chamber thingy. There really is a middle ground between frothing gun nuttery and foaming gun fear and grabbage. Doh! :smack: I swear, I thought this was in GD. Oh well, this is where it belongs. I wish the OP joy of this pitting, though I’m sure there will be a number of folks who will echo the OPs sentiment, even though it was a cluster fuck in execution. Bless his heart… ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/47 "2015-08-04T02:09:33Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > People like you are the reason I’d like to see the Second Amendment repealed. > > You’re not helping your cause. I’m not helping my cause because someone I’ll never meet (who already thought I was nuts) now thinks I’m in the wrong. Flawless liberal logic. It doesn’t matter what you want. You’ll never succeed, and you are in fact worse off now than you were 20-30 years ago. You aren’t even nobly fighting for a lost cause like the confederates were; you’re feebly whining about how foolishly afraid you are other firearms, products so basic they have been used for centuries and are regularly used safely by small children. Of course, the ultimate check on the power of authoritarian losers like yourself is that you couldn’t possibly disarm the millions of law abiding Americans even if falsely thought you had the legal authority to do so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/48 "2015-08-04T02:30:20Z")
> [@Construct](#): > > I’m not helping my cause because someone I’ll never meet (who already thought I was nuts) now thinks I’m in the wrong. Flawless liberal logic. > > It doesn’t matter what you want. You’ll never succeed, and you are in fact worse off now than you were 20-30 years ago. You aren’t even nobly fighting for a lost cause like the confederates were; you’re feebly whining about how foolishly afraid you are other firearms, products so basic they have been used for centuries and are regularly used safely by small children. Of course, the ultimate check on the power of authoritarian losers like yourself is that you couldn’t possibly disarm the millions of law abiding Americans even if falsely thought you had the legal authority to do so. Where’s the Confederate Battle Flag emoticon when you need it!? ---
**Author:** ![Construct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@Construct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Construct)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/49 "2015-08-04T02:43:40Z")
I think of it as conservative intersectionality; bringing up as many right-wing concepts at once as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/50 "2015-08-04T12:32:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Where’s the Confederate Battle Flag emoticon when you need it!? :rolleyes::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::rolleyes: :mad::p:mad::mad::mad::p:mad: :mad::mad::p:mad::p:mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::p:mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::p:mad::p:mad::mad: :mad::p:mad::mad::mad::p:mad: :rolleyes::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/51 "2015-08-04T13:55:46Z")
Well played. Well played!! ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/52 "2015-08-04T14:08:05Z")
Guns are fun - for people who like to play with them. You know, target, skeet, or just blasting the crap out of some cans and bottles at the abandoned neighborhood gravel pit. They are also great tools for whenever you might need to shoot someone/thing, for whatever reason. Otherwise, it’s nobody else’s business. It’s unfortunate they get used for bad reasons too. But overall that’s a tiny, minuscule fraction of their use. Seriously, all the angst and controversy would be much better spent against drunk driving. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/53 "2015-08-04T14:14:29Z")
Funny … most of the people who post on SDMB come from the “whinny crybaby” wing of the Liberal/Hippy/Commie McGovernik Freaks … y’all make Karl Marx look like a Goldwater Republican. … and y’all taste worster than you smell ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/54 "2015-08-04T17:49:00Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > It’s unfortunate they get used for bad reasons too. But overall that’s a tiny, minuscule fraction of their use. Seriously, all the angst and controversy would be much better spent against drunk driving. Good news! This year gun deaths [are predicted to surpass automobile deaths](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/americas-top-killing-machine/384440/)in the U.S. That’s why I’m advocating a change in gun culture in this country. By changing drunk driving culture, both through legislation and through societal pressure, we have managed to cut drunk driving fatalities in half since the 1980’s. Imagine what we could do if we really worked to change attitudes toward guns. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/55 "2015-08-04T18:12:36Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Imagine what we could do if we really worked to change attitudes toward guns. And if we really worked at changing people’s attitudes toward spoons just imagine the impact on obesity, which causes about 10 times more deaths a year in the US than guns. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/56 "2015-08-04T18:21:39Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > And if we really worked at changing people’s attitudes toward spoons just imagine the impact on obesity, which causes about 10 times more deaths a year in the US than guns. We are working very hard to change people’s attitudes toward obesity and healthy eating. It is the First Lady’s [primary cause](http://www.letsmove.gov/). If you have ideas to reduce gun deaths in this country using methods that don’t reference guns, I’m all for them. Anti-poverty and jobs programs can reduce crime, and mental health programs can reduce both suicides and homicides that are caused by mental illness. But that doesn’t negate the value of directly addressing how Americans feel about deadly weapons, and working to make them a smaller part of our culture. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/57 "2015-08-04T18:28:07Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > We are working very hard to change people’s attitudes toward obesity and healthy eating. It is the First Lady’s [primary cause](http://www.letsmove.gov/). Well, her efficacy rating on this topic is very poor. Most gun deaths are not about guns, they’re about people who don’t like themselves or other people. Making the laws stricter won’t stop suicides or criminals from breaking the law. Of the 32,000 annual gun deaths in the US only about 3% are the result of accidents. About 34% of the total are homicides. While 60% are suicides. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/58 "2015-08-04T18:34:11Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Well, her efficacy rating on this topic is very poor. > > Most gun deaths are not about guns, they’re about people who don’t like themselves or other people. Making the laws stricter won’t stop suicides or criminals from breaking the law. > > Of the 32,000 annual gun deaths in the US only about 3% are the result of accidents. About 34% of the total are homicides. While 60% are suicides. What makes you think that stricter gun laws don’t stop suicides? AFAIK, all of the actual research says that people with guns in the home are far more likely to commit suicide _by any means_–meaning they aren’t using substitute methods when guns are less available to them. Now, maybe the laws that would take the guns out of such homes are too restrictive to be justified by this benefit alone. I’d probably believe that. But that’s an entirely different argument from the one you’re making here. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/59 "2015-08-04T18:38:27Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] What makes you think that stricter gun laws don’t stop suicides? [/QUOTE] Most of the countries ahead of the US in [suicide deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate) have stricter gun laws…by a large margin in several cases. So, doesn’t seem to be stifling their abilities to find ways of killing themselves very much, if at all. The US with our attitude towards personal gun ownership actually comes out fairly far down the list. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873/60 "2015-08-04T18:40:36Z")
As I said before, if you (or anyone) can come up with effective solutions to reduce accidents, homicides and suicides by methods that don’t involve legal restrictions of guns, I am all for them. I even mentioned several in my previous post. I personally believe that attitude changes will be far more effective than legal ones. As with drunk driving, the best solution probably involves a combination of both. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-gun-nuts-describe-their-views/726873.md?page=4)