# Help ID Skeletal Remains (no rush) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837 "2011-03-24T14:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/1 "2011-03-24T14:15:31Z")
While on a vacation last month, we were hiking in a rain-forest area of St Martin. We found and photographed these [skeletal remains](http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv174/kayaker01/rermains.jpg). I moved parts closer together for the photo. We couldn’t find a skull, though we tried. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/2 "2011-03-24T14:52:38Z")
I’m going to say Racoon. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/3 "2011-03-24T14:54:11Z")
Judging from the long tail, I’d guess some sort of monkey. The photo on this page halfway down looks sort of close: [St. Martin wildlife](http://www.jmbcommunications.com/sxm/pages/Go/wildlife.shtml). ETA: Diagram of a [monkey skeleton](http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/26000/26013/monkey_skele_26013_lg.gif). Looks pretty close, same pelvis, tail, ribcage. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/4 "2011-03-24T15:26:43Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Judging from the long tail, I’d guess some sort of monkey. The photo on this page halfway down looks sort of close: [St. Martin wildlife](http://www.jmbcommunications.com/sxm/pages/Go/wildlife.shtml). > > ETA: Diagram of a [monkey skeleton](http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/26000/26013/monkey_skele_26013_lg.gif). Looks pretty close, same pelvis, tail, ribcage. Cool, that was our guess. We saw green monkeys in the vicinity. RIP;) ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/5 "2011-03-24T15:50:58Z")
This is what happens when you take the wrong turn at Albuquerque. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/6 "2011-03-24T19:35:10Z")
Not saying you guys are wrong about the monkey ID, but a racoon skeleton is very, very similar (to both the linked pic of the remains, and the linked pic of the monkey skeleton). The pelvis in the linked pic is almost identical to the pelvis of this disarticulated racoon skeleton.: [http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/variants\_large\_5216.jpg](http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/variants_large_5216.jpg) I think the primate pelvis tends to be broader - I couldn’t find anything in a Google image search for monkey pelvis or primate pelvis that looked as narrow as the one in the OP’s photo. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/7 "2011-03-24T19:37:19Z")
Probably an alien-human hybrid. Were there a lot of bees around? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/8 "2011-03-24T21:23:07Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Not saying you guys are wrong about the monkey ID, but a racoon skeleton is very, very similar (to both the linked pic of the remains, and the linked pic of the monkey skeleton). Very unlikely raccoon, as the only one on the island is in the St Maarten Zoo. I’ve seen the fat thing.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/9 "2011-03-24T21:33:11Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Very unlikely raccoon, as the only one on the island is in the St Maarten Zoo. Apparently not so. [http://www.stmaartendivers.com/index.php/Island-News/nature-foundation-staff-attend-feral-animal-workshop-will-start-pilot-study-on-raccoon-population.html](http://www.stmaartendivers.com/index.php/Island-News/nature-foundation-staff-attend-feral-animal-workshop-will-start-pilot-study-on-raccoon-population.html) ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/10 "2011-03-24T21:38:39Z")
I would have guessed Possum. But I am by no means an expert. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/11 "2011-03-24T21:39:26Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Apparently not so. > [http://www.stmaartendivers.com/index.php/Island-News/nature-foundation-staff-attend-feral-animal-workshop-will-start-pilot-study-on-raccoon-population.html](http://www.stmaartendivers.com/index.php/Island-News/nature-foundation-staff-attend-feral-animal-workshop-will-start-pilot-study-on-raccoon-population.html) Holy crap. Sorry, I sure thought what I said was correct. The sign at the zoo mentions them not being native and I thought said that the one on exhibit was it. Found two more pics. [With my Droid X to show size.](http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv174/kayaker01/phonebones.jpg) [I asked my gf to pick it up. She did. I couldn’t believe it. I was just kidding, but how could I _not_ take the picture?](http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv174/kayaker01/kimisquincy.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/12 "2011-03-24T21:42:54Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Not saying you guys are wrong about the monkey ID, but a racoon skeleton is very, very similar (to both the linked pic of the remains, and the linked pic of the monkey skeleton). > > The pelvis in the linked pic is almost identical to the pelvis of this disarticulated racoon skeleton.: > [http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/variants\_large\_5216.jpg](http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/variants_large_5216.jpg) > > I think the primate pelvis tends to be broader - I couldn’t find anything in a Google image search for monkey pelvis or primate pelvis that looked as narrow as the one in the OP’s photo. Howsabout tail length? Coincidentally, I’ve been trapping and relocating a family of raccoons in our barn. Their tails seem short and stubby IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/13 "2011-03-24T21:43:57Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Judging from the long tail, I’d guess some sort of monkey. The photo on this page halfway down looks sort of close: [St. Martin wildlife](http://www.jmbcommunications.com/sxm/pages/Go/wildlife.shtml). > > ETA: Diagram of a [monkey skeleton](http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/26000/26013/monkey_skele_26013_lg.gif). Looks pretty close, same pelvis, tail, ribcage. Judging from the size of the surrounding foliage, that’s one small monkey, or a baby from a larger species. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/14 "2011-03-24T21:57:44Z")
St. Martin has very few mammals. The only native ones are bats. The following species are introduced: Horse Donkey Cow Sheep Goat Pig Cat Dog House mouse Brown rat Black roof rat Indian mongoose Raccoon African green vervet monkey ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/15 "2011-03-24T22:09:35Z")
[Green Vervet Monkey](http://theevolutionstore.com/modules/store/images/products/vervet_monkey_skeleton_disarticulated_ss1107_m5326.jpg) [Another monkey](http://www.boneclones.com/images/sc-069-a-lg.jpg) [Raccoon](http://remocoon.mnsi.net/raccoon_skeleton.jpg) [Mongoose skeleton](http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5206/5246081398_034a248e6b.jpg) I think the tail is much too long for a raccoon - it’s longer than the whole rest of the vertebral column, while that of the raccoon is shorter. The mongoose’s legs are shorter and stouter. I think it’s probably a monkey. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/16 "2011-03-24T23:10:21Z")
The pelvis in both of those monkey skeletons is broader, though - that’s what’s making me think this isn’t a primate. If not a racoon or mongoose, how about a feral cat? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/17 "2011-03-24T23:19:54Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The pelvis in both of those monkey skeletons is broader, though - that’s what’s making me think this isn’t a primate. If not a racoon or mongoose, how about a feral cat? I think a cat’s tail is too short. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/18 "2011-03-24T23:27:57Z")
Dunno - but monkey tail bones seem to have prominent wings on them - particularly near the base of the tail, presumably for muscle attachment where the monkey tail is prehensile. The tail bones on this specimen seem quite slender, even at the base. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/19 "2011-03-25T13:05:13Z")
If only I had pocketed a vertebra, we could have DNA analysis done. Getting through airport security and customs, though. . . ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837/20 "2011-03-25T17:31:13Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The pelvis in both of those monkey skeletons is broader, though - that’s what’s making me think this isn’t a primate. If not a racoon or mongoose, how about a feral cat? Ok, after further comparison with a [cat](http://courses.washington.edu/chordate/453photos/skeleton_photos/cat_skeleton.jpg) skeleton, I think you’re right. The clincher is the form of the [femur and tibia]([http://bio.bd.psu.edu/cat/skeletal\_system/appendicular\_skeleton.htm#femur](http://bio.bd.psu.edu/cat/skeletal_system/appendicular_skeleton.htm#femur) and patella) bones; both bones can be seen particularly well in **kayaker’s** second photo. The monkey has a longer, thinner femur and the tibia is not curved in the same way as in the cat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-id-skeletal-remains-no-rush/575837.md?page=2)