# Help -- I'm being niggled! (A Goblet of Fire observation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2001, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189 "2001-11-19T12:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/1 "2001-11-19T12:51:08Z")
A stupid niggling point that I am compelled to mention. In the fourth Harry Potter book, Viktor Krum and Hermione go to the dance together, and at the end of the book he invites her to visit him in Bulgaria over the summer. At the beginning of the book it’s mentioned that Krum is 18; Hermione, assuming that she’s the same age as Harry, is 14. Is this not a faintly disturbing age gap? Even if their ages are 15 and 19 by the end of the book, that’s still a dubious pairing. Now I realize that a) nothing untoward is mentioned, and b) these are fictional characters in a children’s fantasy story, but still, it bothers me. So, while I’m waiting to get a life: any thoughts? [sub]No Piers Anthony comments, please.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Rue\_DeDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rue\_DeDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rue_DeDay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/2 "2001-11-19T13:06:54Z")
**j’r** y (and I’m pronouncing it “Jerry”, just to be all friendly-like) what they (“they” being “her” as in J.K., the author\*) don’t tell you is that, while Harry is 14, he has that pesky late birthday. So while they’re in the same class, Hermi’s already 15. Vic has an even later birthday. So at the end of the book, he’s only 18 (almost 19) and our beloved Hermi (wiht her new front teeth) is all of 16. Not that big a deal at all. -Rue. \*This isn’t said because I just made it all up to put your mind at ease. ---
**Author:** ![Gartog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@Gartog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gartog)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/3 "2001-11-19T13:15:26Z")
I’m going to agree with **Rue** , because otherwise it does seem like a large age gap. While we’re discussing the Goblet of fire (If we’re not then we should be) did anyone else think it could have done with another edit . . . . I didn’t when I read it to myself, but reading it out loud there seemed to be a lot of repeated words etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/4 "2001-11-19T13:19:46Z")
Nice try, **Rue** , but I remain unconvinced. Is it mentioned somewhere that Harry’s a year younger than Ron and Hermione? [The Russian]“I think not, baby puppy.”[/The Russian] Yes, the last book needed a bit more polishing, but I suspect that Rowling was (and still is) under a lot of pressure to produce quickly. And now she has screenplays to oversee as well; it doesn’t bode well for the next book – either it will be a long time coming, or hastily penned. Hmph. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/5 "2001-11-19T13:46:35Z")
Harry’s birthday is during the summer. That is not a “late” birthday, it puts you at the exact center of the range of birthdays in a given school year. In order to make Ron and Hermione significantly older than Harry, they would have to have extremely _early_ birthdays, and I don’t think their birthdays are ever mentioned. Anyway, I think this situation is like a high school freshman dating a high school senior. Not common, but not unheard of. ---
**Author:** ![Oreo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@Oreo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oreo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/6 "2001-11-19T15:01:03Z")
Doesn’t really matter, anyway. We all know Ron and Hermione are going to end up together in the end. And Harry’s gonna fall hard for Ron’s little sister one of these days… ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/7 "2001-11-19T15:54:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by delphica \* > **Harry’s birthday is during the summer. That is not a “late” birthday, it puts you at the exact center of the range of birthdays in a given school year. In order to make Ron and Hermione significantly older than Harry, they would have to have extremely _early_ birthdays, and I don’t think their birthdays are ever mentioned.** No, a summer birthday generally makes you one of the youngest in your class, at least in the US. I’m not sure how Hogwarts does it, but in my state, the birthday cutoff is September 1. If you have not turned 5 by September 1, you are not allowed to enter kindergarten that year. You have to wait until next year. Someone born in July or August would be among the youngest in their class; someone born in September or October would be among the oldest. Let’s suppose that Hermione was born in November. (Was her birthday mentioned? I can’t remember, either.) Harry was born in July of the next year. That would make Hermione seven months older than Harry. She would start out the school year at 14, like Harry, but turn 15 much sooner than he does. Harry won’t be 15 until the next book. > [@](#): > > \*\*Anyway, I think this situation is like a high school freshman dating a high school senior. Not common, but not unheard of. \*\* That’s what I think, too. However, I do think 15 is a bit young to be visting boys in Bulgaria–but, then again, I’m not planning on sending my kids away to school when they are 11, either. This may be a “community standards” type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/8 "2001-11-19T17:21:53Z")
Ahh, the old Hermione Granger age debate. Personally, I think she was born the same year as Ron and Harry (1980). JK Rowling gave her birthday as September 19th, by the way. [http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/faq/hermione.html](http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/faq/hermione.html) The above link is a good Hermione Granger page that tells about the debate (it’s through this Harry Potter group I sometimes participate in). The debate is in the second paragraph in the section titled “Physical Description and Background Information”. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/9 "2001-11-19T17:33:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tamex \* > \*\* > No, a summer birthday generally makes you one of the youngest in your class, at least in the US._\* Simply depends where you live. In NY where I grew up, the cutoff was Jan. 1. Count me in among those that thought Goblet of Fire could have been edited down a bit. But then you wouldn’t have all those people crowing about how kids are now reading 800 page books. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/10 "2001-11-19T19:45:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gartog \* > \*\*…but reading it out loud there seemed to be a lot of repeated words etc. \*\* I noticed that too! I read it out loud to my sister recently. It definitely needed a bit more work before publication. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2001, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/11 "2001-11-19T20:05:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamex \* > \*\*No, a summer birthday generally makes you one of the youngest in your class, at least in the US. I’m not sure how Hogwarts does it, but in my state, the birthday cutoff is September 1. If you have not turned 5 by September 1, you are not allowed to enter kindergarten that year. You have to wait until next year. Someone born in July or August would be among the youngest in their class; someone born in September or October would be among the oldest. > \*\* Not where I live (or used to) – in Michigan, it’s December 1. My brother, born November 9, is usually one of the youngest in his class (he was still 17 when he started college this year), while my sisters, born January 22 (twins) are one of the oldest (they’re college sophomores and are about to turn 20). My birthday is June 11, which means it falls right around the end of the school year (in high school, it was usually during finals week, meaning I never got my birthday announced over the PA in the morning ☹ ;)). All of this, though, is completely irrelevant, as the practices of the Hogwarts admissions office remain frustratingly obscure… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/12 "2001-11-20T00:48:27Z")
lest we forget, hogwarts is in england. we need to find out how they do school years. also boarding school is a rather normal thing over there. however, i thought the dating thing came in a bit early. no dating 'till 16!!! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/13 "2001-11-20T01:07:38Z")
It’s been a while since I’ve read _Goblet of Fire_, but is it possible that Viktor’s invitation was meant to include Hermione’s parents? Nothing creepy about stopping by to see a friend while on a family vacation. ---
**Author:** ![Theobroma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@Theobroma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theobroma)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/14 "2001-11-20T08:06:20Z")
You know, just because he INVITED her, that doesn’t mean her parents will allow her to go! Besides, he presumably still lives with his parents, so they would be the hosts. And if they are wizards as well (a logical assumption) there would be all sorts of ways to prevent any hanky-panky. Heck, for all I know, they could bewitch his bed to scream if Hermione touches it. Heh! ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/15 "2001-11-20T08:16:44Z")
Maybe it’s just a segue to setting the “summer vacation” segment of the fifth book in a different location and Harry and Ron will end up joining Hermione in Bulgaria - after all, the formula of Harry having a miserable holiday with his Muggle Aunt and Uncle is getting a bit tired as the opening to every book. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/16 "2001-11-20T16:52:43Z")
They were born in 1980?!? Harry Potter is OLDER than me?!?!? Well, this’ll be a blow to my little sister 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/17 "2001-11-20T21:06:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Silentgoldfish \* > \*\*They were born in 1980?!? Harry Potter is OLDER than me?!?!? > > Well, this’ll be a blow to my little sister 🙂 \*\* (Older than **I** , if you please.) Sorry about your little sister’s misapprehensions, but 1980 is the right birth year for Harry. Consider: in _The Chamber of Secrets_, it is revealed that Nearly Headless Nick died on October 31, 1492; as he is celebrating his five hundredth Deathday, the year this book takes place is 1992 (and 1993, until June). Therefore, _The Sorceror’s (or Philosopher’s) Stone_took place over the 1991-1992 school year.\* Since Harry’s eleventh birthday fell on July 31, 1991, we must concludethat he was born in 1980. \*The dates don’t really work out that nicely, BTW, because _The Sorceror’s Stone_ gives his parent’s death day as Wednesday October 31, 1981. 10/31/81 was actually a Saturday, at least in the universe I inhabit. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/18 "2001-11-20T21:11:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kaylasdad99 \* > \*\*\*The dates don’t really work out that nicely, BTW, because _The Sorceror’s Stone_ gives his parent’s death day as Wednesday October 31, 1981. 10/31/81 was actually a Saturday, at least in the universe I inhabit. \*\* Also, in _Goblet of Fire_ I believe, Harry writes a letter to Sirius Black saying that Dudley got a Playstation for his birthday, and I don’t believe Playstation came out in the summer of 1994. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/19 "2001-11-20T21:31:30Z")
Another good point, **bean\_shadow** , but one I wouldn’t have been in a position to catch. ---
**Author:** ![Gravity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gravity/32/14322_2.png) [@Gravity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gravity)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189/20 "2001-11-20T21:57:51Z")
You know, the thing that bothered me the most about the books is that there is an awful lot of dwelling on the cool stuff that Harry gets as gifts, and minimal gift giving in return. If I’m remembering right, it doesn’t even mention him giving any gifts to others until the fourth book, and then only a brief gloss-over. I really enjoy the books, though. The Goblet of Fire seemed a bit political and heavy for a children’s read, though. Luckily, I don’t have to wory about that, though, being 28 with no kids. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-im-being-niggled-a-goblet-of-fire-observation/94189.md?page=2)