# Help me build a better pizza **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871 "2012-06-21T18:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871/21 "2012-06-22T16:39:02Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Or even higher glutten flour if you can get your hands on it. This is key. > > What works surprisingly well is going to your local pizza joint and asking to buy a couple lbs of flour off of them, or at least finding out what flour they use. I disagree. I prefer AP flour to bread in most pizzas. Produces a lighter, less dense crust if you are doing shorter (one day) rises. Bread flour is good for long rises with lesser amounts of yeast. My favorite local pizza place, for example, uses Cerasota all purpose. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871/22 "2012-06-22T16:53:07Z")
Also, the flour used in Italian style pizzas tends to be in the mid-gluten range, like AP flours, usually in the 11-12% protein range, while bread flours tend to be 14% up. Now, 00 flour is different than American flours, as the number refers to the fine mill of the flours, so it’s not directly comparable. Try for yourself and see what you like. Generally, recipes requiring AP flour will have less hydration than recipes requiring bread flour. I like to use AP flour at 65% hydration for my pizzas. You might prefer bread at 75% hydration. Experiment and see what you like. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871/23 "2012-06-22T17:16:26Z")
Ditch the whole wheat flour recipe. It will never make a good pizza dough. Get some bread flour (referred to in the following link as "high-gluten flour). A very good basic recipe for good homemade pizza: [New York-Style Pizza](http://www.pizzamaking.com/newyorkstyle.php) IMHO, pizza sauce should not be pre-cooked; it will cook in the oven. I make the sauce in that link but do not pre-cook it. I do drain the juice from the can of tomatoes before hitting it with a stick blender; pizza sauce needs to be thicker than pasta sauce. I don’t think tomato paste belongs in a pizza sauce; it has too much of a ‘cooked’ flavor, like a long simmered pasta sauce. Pizza sauce should have a ‘fresh’ taste. I also add a bit of basil and a bit of red pepper. I make the sauce the day before I plan to make pizza and stick it in the refrigerator to let the flavors blend – let it (and the cheese) come to room temperature before using. If you want to make a different amount of dough or tweak the basic recipe, use: [Lehmann Pizza Dough Calculator](http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html). I use a stone with an hour preheat (and several minutes between pizzas to regain heat) but the parchment paper on the oven floor thing sounds interesting. I might try it some time. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871/24 "2012-06-22T17:19:33Z")
[Here you go.](http://www.epicmealtime.com/videos/2012/6/5/ultimate-pizza-sandwich.html) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871/25 "2012-06-22T17:30:24Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > I use a stone with an hour preheat (and several minutes between pizzas to regain heat) but the parchment paper on the oven floor thing sounds interesting. I might try it some time. I’ll be curious to hear your results. Almost everything I’ve read says not to do this, that it won’t work, etc. [Like this thread here](http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/403179). A couple weeks ago I just said eff it, let’s try. And, as you can see, it worked. Much better than I had ever anticipated. But maybe I’m lucky with my particular oven’s design (which is just a normal cheap-o Kenmore gas range like [this one.](http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/02278832000)) I agree with your other points. My tomato sauce is just 6-in-1 brand crushed tomatoes. You don’t need anything else. If I feel like a more flavored pizza sauce, I’ll add some oregano, and perhaps garlic, and a quick drizzle of extra virgin olive oil. But straight tomatoes is good. And never cooked sauce. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871/26 "2012-06-22T17:47:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I disagree. I prefer AP flour to bread in most pizzas. Produces a lighter, less dense crust if you are doing shorter (one day) rises. Bread flour is good for long rises with lesser amounts of yeast. My favorite local pizza place, for example, uses Cerasota all purpose. And this here (along with your next post) is why I love baking. I prefer a high gluten flour, but then I also prefer really long rise times and I find that a/p doesn’t hold up for my needs. But half the fun of baking is figuring out what works for you. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871/27 "2012-06-23T20:36:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I used to always do my pizzas on preheated cast iron or pizza stones, but I stumbled across an idea a few weeks ago that works: shape your dough on parchment paper (this makes life easy and you don’t have to worry about the pizza sticking to your peel or rolling out surface.) YES! I started doing this about the third pizza I made. Lay a sheet of paper over the stone before you put it in the oven and cut it to size, then build the pizza on the paper. No effect on the crust. When it’s done, take the whole thing out, paper and all, cut the pizza and plop it on the table on the paper. I also use parchment paper (instead of foil or nothing) on a cookie sheet for cooking frozen fries in the oven. Perfect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-better-pizza/625871.md?page=1)