# Help me build a classic science fiction reading list! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986 "2017-07-11T06:23:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/61 "2017-07-14T00:21:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I would favour _The Dispossessed_ over seeming fan favourite _The Left Hand Of Darkness_ for Le Guin \* 100% agree. Butler belongs on the list. Only one person mentioned Neuromancer; it absolutely must go on the list. It’s interesting to see–and I’m not saying anything about the folks in the thread, so much as about science fiction as a field–how few of the authors mentioned are non-white, and how few are not men. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/62 "2017-07-14T01:13:54Z")
The name “Kilgore Trout” was inspired by the name “Theodore Sturgeon.” He and Vonnegut were friends and fellow struggling writers in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s. In general though, Trout and Sturgeon don’t seem to be much alike: > **[Kilgore Trout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilgore_Trout)** > > Kilgore Trout is a fictional character created by author Kurt Vonnegut. In Vonnegut's work, Trout is a notably unsuccessful author of paperback science fiction novels. > "Trout" was inspired by the name of the author Theodore Sturgeon (Vonnegut's colleague in the genre of science fiction—Vonnegut was amused by the notion of a person with the name of a fish, Sturgeon, hence Trout), although Trout's consistent presence in Vonnegut's works has also led critics to view him as the author's own alter eg... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/63 "2017-07-14T01:23:44Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Kurt Vonnegut, who wrote Literary Fiction–never Science Fiction–warned of the sad fate of Kilgore Trout. An excellent writer, but condemned to the back rooms of ratty used paperback stores because his work was _marketed_ as SF. Vonnegut appeared in both _Galaxy_ and _F&SF_, the core literary sf magazines, in his early career. But he also sold what we would consider f&sf to mainstream magazines like _Collier’s_. None of his first three f&sf novels, _Player Piano_, _The Sirens of Titan_, and _Cat’s Cradle_, were marketed as sf. To the contrary, they appeared from prestige literary houses like Scribners, Houghton Mifflin, and Holt, Rinehart and Winston. They got excellent reviews, too. A top literary writer shouldn’t need to keep finding new publishers for every book, though. His non-sf work fared even worse. _Mother Night_ got published as a paperback original; Harper & Row (prestige publisher #4!) did the first hardback edition four years later. The short story collection _Canary in a Cat House_ also appeared as a paperback original. It wasn’t until after _Cat’s Cradle_ didn’t get the respect he wanted that he figured out he had to loudly disclaim any connection to what was then still got considered as subliterate trash if he wanted mainsteam attention. Terry Southern, the leading writer of what was then called “black humor” reviewed it for the Times Book Review and said “Like the best of contemporary satire, it is work of a far more engaging and meaningful order than the melodramatic tripe which most critics seem to consider ‘serious’.” But Vonnegut wanted to be considered serious. If denouncing sf made him appear serious, fine with him. Then Delacorte (#5!) published Slaughterhouse-Five as straight literary fiction and his career was made. > [@E-DUB](#): > > While I know that Phillip Jose Farmer wrote “Venus on the Half Shell”, I’ve always wondered if Phillip K. Dick was the real-life inspiration for Kilgore Trout. Theodore Sturgeon (Sturgeon/Trout: really) is usually considered the original. He and Vonnegut were friends, he was known as an outstanding writer who didn’t get the attention he deserved, and he had suffered serious writer’s block as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/64 "2017-07-14T01:50:25Z")
_The Sirens of Titan_ (1959) was first published as an SF-style paperback original. Holt issued the hardcover in 1961. In my 1990s publishing days I was a bud of Knox Burger, who was Vonnegut’s agent at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/65 "2017-07-14T03:02:16Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > _The Sirens of Titan_ (1959) was first published as an SF-style paperback original. Holt issued the hardcover in 1961. > > In my 1990s publishing days I was a bud of Knox Burger, who was Vonnegut’s agent at the time. Thanks for the important correction. That certainly helps explain his attitude. Hmm. I turn out to have a copy of it. Dell First Editions did a lot of sf in the 1950s, and often did simultaneous firsts with hardcover publishers, like they did with Gnome Press and Judith Merril’s first four best stories of the year anthologies. That would have been a prestige paperback publication - but in an era when paperbacks were almost as derided as sf. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/66 "2017-07-14T03:20:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Thanks for the important correction. You’re teasing me now. ---
**Author:** ![trapezoidal\_jellyfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@trapezoidal\_jellyfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trapezoidal_jellyfish)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/67 "2017-07-14T03:46:01Z")
Would any of you consider Ender’s Game a classic? I’m inclined to, if only because it’s so popular. I know several people who have barely read any science fiction, but they’ve read Ender’s Game. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/68 "2017-07-14T04:51:27Z")
> [@trapezoidal\_jellyfish](#): > > Would any of you consider Ender’s Game a classic? I’m inclined to, if only because it’s so popular. I know several people who have barely read any science fiction, but they’ve read Ender’s Game. Sure (although it’s more recent than most of the books mentioned in this thread. How old does something have to be to be a classic?). It occurs to me now that maybe _The Hitchhiker’s Guide To the Galaxy_ deserves consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/69 "2017-07-14T11:36:08Z")
> [@trapezoidal\_jellyfish](#): > > Would any of you consider Ender’s Game a classic? I’m inclined to, if only because it’s so popular. I know several people who have barely read any science fiction, but they’ve read Ender’s Game. I suppose it could be considered a classic, but I (like you mentioned earlier) was thinking 1950s or 1960s or earlier. (It is sorta like debating if John William’s theme to Superman should considered classical music.) Books from the early years of SF as a modern genre. If you are going to conciser well liked books from the 1980s and beyond, the list is going to bloom even more beyond 12 to 15 books. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/70 "2017-07-14T12:38:50Z")
It wasn’t stated in the OP that these classics had to come from specific time period. Are we really limited to such a time period? I assumed classics just meant the best ones from any time. My list was all from the 1970’s and earlier except for one, but that’s because just by luck that’s what I considered the best happened to have been written. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/71 "2017-07-14T12:52:27Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > It wasn’t stated in the OP that these classics had to come from specific time period. Are we really limited to such a time period? I assumed classics just meant the best ones from any time. I just assumed classic to mean older (that is pretty much part of the definition of classic to me–nothing is a classic until it has aged) but the OP did elaborate in post #44: _“How broadly are you defining “modern?” I’m particularly interested in material from the 1950s and 1960s. Definitely still willing to read things from earlier or later.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/72 "2017-07-14T13:21:15Z")
I don’t use the word “classic” in that way, but whatever. I suppose I sort of mentally divide up books into (1) the ones that I knew about when they came out and (2) those that I wasn’t old enough to know about when they came out. If you look at my list in post #6, the only ones that I read close to the time they came out were the Riverworld books and _Replay_. Yeah, I was certainly old enough to read those on the list that came out in the 1960’s, but I didn’t have good access to libraries or bookstores or money to afford to buy books. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/73 "2017-07-14T13:40:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Exapno Mapcase** : > > Check these images of the various covers. They all say “A Novel.” In publishing a novel is not science fiction; it’s a literary work. I have plenty of books on my shelves that say “A Novel” on the cover, and yet which are unambiguously science fiction and marketed as such. **Apollyon** , I think you’re thinking of Asimov with the really bad puns, not Clarke. Clarke’s short stories often have a “punchline” twist at the end, but it’s not a joke sort of punchline, it’s things like “High overhead, one by one, the stars were winking out”. And I absolutely agree that _Ender’s Game_ and _The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_ should be considered classics. It’s possible for a particularly good, thought-provoking, or influential work to be a classic nearly as soon as it’s published. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/74 "2017-07-14T13:57:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I absolutely agree that _Ender’s Game_ and _The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_ should be considered classics. It’s possible for a particularly good, thought-provoking, or influential work to be a classic nearly as soon as it’s published. Putting on my pedant hat, the first definition that comes up when I google for “classic” is: **1**. judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind. “a classic novel” In other words, a classic is something seen in retrospect after it has been tested by time. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/75 "2017-07-14T14:04:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I absolutely agree that _Ender’s Game_ and _The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_ should be considered classics. It’s possible for a particularly good, thought-provoking, or influential work to be a classic nearly as soon as it’s published. I didn’t want to go as far as the 80s with my list but I agree with this sentiment. IIRC, “Neuromancer” was pretty quickly considered a groundbreaking work. It wasn’t an instant hit but it was intensely discussed in the months after publication and won the triple crown. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/76 "2017-07-14T15:51:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Apollyon** , I think you’re thinking of Asimov with the really bad puns, not Clarke. Clarke’s short stories often have a “punchline” twist at the end, but it’s not a joke sort of punchline, it’s things like “High overhead, one by one, the stars were winking out”. I think **Apollyon** ’s thinking of [Feghoots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feghoot). Asimov wrote some, but so did many others. The [TVTropes page](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Feghoot) lists examples by Asimov, Clarke, and many more. ---
**Author:** ![TheseGoToEleven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/848f3c/32.png) [@TheseGoToEleven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheseGoToEleven)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/77 "2017-07-14T18:34:11Z")
The first sequel to “Ender’s Game”, “Speaker for the Dead” (Orson Scott Card has subsequently milked that series prolifically, but unevenly), in my view forever upped the bar for writing about aliens who are undeniably and disturbingly alien. One of my favorites, and I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/78 "2017-07-14T18:52:40Z")
_Ender’s Game_ was mentioned all the way back in post #13. It was published in 1985. 32 years ago. I started reading f&sf in 1963. The Golden Age starts, conventionally, with John W. Campbell taking over _Astounding_ in 1937. That’s only 26 years. As a kid, everything published before I started reading was a classic. _Neuromancer_ was 1984. If that’s not a “famous, influential, noteworthy, and/or genre-defining” book, then what is? It was all those things before 1990. > [@Chronos](#): > > I have plenty of books on my shelves that say “A Novel” on the cover, and yet which are unambiguously science fiction and marketed as such. Not in the 1980s they weren’t. And I’m curious how you know those books you’re referring to were marketed as science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/79 "2017-07-14T18:55:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Apollyon** , I think you’re thinking of Asimov with the really bad puns, not Clarke. No, Clarke wrote [Neutron Tide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_Tide). Though I think that’s Clarke’s only pun story, while Asimov wrote a few (eg [Shah Guido G](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Guido_G.)). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986/80 "2017-07-14T19:16:10Z")
So much good stuff out there! Hands down, my all-time favorite sf book is George R.R. Martin’s _Tuf Voyaging_, a terrific collection of interrelated short stories about the misanthropic, sarcastic captain of a massive starship with very impressive ecological engineering and cloning capabilities. Great tales that tackle some interesting issues, including absolute power, overpopulation, environmentalism and militarism. I’ve often recommended the book here on the boards, and without exception everyone who’s read it has raved about it. Hope you like it, too. Arthur C. Clarke’s _The Fountains of Paradise_ is a very interesting look at building a space elevator or “beanstalk.” Also very good by Clarke: _2001: A Space Odyssey, 2010: Odyssey Two_, and _Childhood’s End_. John Scalzi’s _Old Man’s War_ is the first book in a series, about humanity fighting a number of hostile alien races. It’s right up there with Robert Heinlein’s _Starship Troopers_ and Joe Haldeman’s _The Forever War_ for hard, page-turner military sf, but with more snark, humor and snappy writing. Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle’s _The Mote in God’s Eye_ is one of the best-ever alien first contact stories, IMHO, set in the distant future when humanity’s starfaring empire is climbing back up after a long fall. Frank Herbert’s _Dune_ is a deserved classic, about a desert world with a hidden subculture at the center of galactic imperial politics. Isaac Asimov’s _The Robots of Dawn_ is my favorite book of his, but _I, Robot_ and _The Foundation Trilogy_ are also well worth a read, although slightly dated now. Heinlein’s _Time for the Stars_, about near-FTL travel and ESP, is my favorite of his many books, although _Have Space Suit - Will Travel, Glory Road, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Space Cadet, The Rolling Stones, The Puppet Masters, Friday_ and the aforementioned _Starship Troopers_ are all excellent. Ray Bradbury’s _The Martian Chronicles_ and _The Illustrated Man_ are his best, I think - collections of just one amazing short story after another. _The Left Hand of Darkness_ by Ursula K. Le Guin is an engrossing tale of a human diplomat trying to learn about a very different alien culture with shifting sexual identities. Alan Dean Foster’s _Icerigger_ is, I believe, his best, about a small group of humans stranded on a wintry alien world who board a great ship that sails the frozen seas. Joe Haldeman’s _The Forever War_ is, as mentioned above, a great military sf novel. My favorite of his, though, is _Tool of the Trade_, a Cold War sf/espionage thriller about a Soviet sleeper agent in the U.S. who develops a practical method of mind control. A great story with a perfect ending. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-build-a-classic-science-fiction-reading-list/790986.md?page=5)