# help me catch a plagiarist **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596 "2003-05-16T03:04:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/1 "2003-05-16T03:04:25Z")
I’m not sure if this is the right forum, but it is related in a way to literature, so I thought I’d give it a shot. If I’m wrong, sorry. I have a research paper in my hand (which I am grading) that I am absolutely, 100% certain is plagiarized. A student who can normally barely form coherent sentences is suddenly able to say that “Consistently throughout Franny Glass’s religious deterioration, J.D. Salinger investigates problems in both religion and mysticism.” (Not a deep thought exactly, but trust me when I say that there is no chance in hell that “mysticism” is in this child’s vocabulary.) Furthermore, the paper is not cited AT ALL. I have used [turnitin.com](http://turnitin.com) in the past (in fact, two years ago I used it with the same student when she was a 9th grader, and found that she had in fact gotten the paper from the internet), but this time I had no luck with the findings. I know that I have the right to give an F on this paper anyway, but I would feel more confident with the inevitable parent denial if I had the “original” in front of me. (This is what I have done in the past.) I could also just sit this child down and ask her to summarize her paper orally, which she obviously would not be able to do. However, this would not prove as much as I’d like it to, as the papers were handed in a couple of weeks ago (it’s taken me a long time to grade them, but this is the last one) and she could claim she has forgotten the details of her paper, and it would not be too outrageous a claim. Does anyone know of another means to prove plagiarism, other than the aforementioned [turnitin.com](http://turnitin.com)? I’d appreciate any help or suggestions for this problem. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/2 "2003-05-16T03:09:02Z")
Sounds like you have actual experience in dealing with this sort of thing, but have you Googled portions of the text? Maybe the original’s online. I know that’s happened before. (I googled the sentence you provided, with no luck.) ---
**Author:** ![Daizy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@Daizy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daizy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/3 "2003-05-16T03:27:39Z")
As **dantheman** has already mentioned, we can most certainly help you search, but a few more “suspicious” lines of text would make it a little easier. [This one](http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/franny/analysis.html) was getting close. Daizy ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/4 "2003-05-16T03:30:46Z")
Just found it on SparkNotes! I’m set for tomorrow morning. Thanks; I had tried Googling parts of the text, but with no luck either. I tried “Franny Glass Mysticism” and the SparkNotes popped up. Excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/5 "2003-05-16T03:38:10Z")
Why, oh why, don’t these cheaters realize that teachers can Google too? In fact, you should write “F. Teachers can Google too.” on it. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/6 "2003-05-16T03:44:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*Why, oh why, don’t these cheaters realize that teachers can Google too? In fact, you should write “F. Teachers can Google too.” on it. \*\* I would advise against that, since it would simply give them a better idea of how to get away with cheating in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Belanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Jay\_Belanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Belanger)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/7 "2003-05-16T03:50:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nineiron \* > \*\* A student who can normally barely form coherent sentences is suddenly able to say that “Consistently throughout Franny Glass’s religious deterioration, J.D. Salinger investigates problems in both religion and mysticism.” (Not a deep thought exactly, but trust me when I say that there is no chance in hell that “mysticism” is in this child’s vocabulary.) Furthermore, the paper is not cited AT ALL. \*\* That’s a rather short quote. I played around with googling short phrases from it, and came up with: “Through Franny Glass’s spiritual breakdown, J. D. Salinger explores issues in not only mysticism and religion but also family, celebrity, education, and intellectualism. Of course, the religious themes are important: By the end of the “Zooey” section, Salinger seems to have arrived at a spiritual doctrine, to be followed by many of his characters.” Is it anything like that? (From [http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/franny/analysis.html](http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/franny/analysis.html), just in case.) Jay ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Belanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Jay\_Belanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Belanger)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/8 "2003-05-16T03:52:03Z")
Too slow. Heh. Jay ---
**Author:** ![Shadez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Shadez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shadez)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/9 "2003-05-16T03:53:46Z")
As someone who just got accused of plagarizing an entire paper and spending the last two days eating way too much worrying and crying enough to give me a headache for the last 7 hours, it’s not fun to be the student either. Of course, this student is a bit …uh…yeah. This is the 2nd time she tried with you? Geez. Anyway, the details of my case were that I was a little careless, and bookmarked research sites that could not be reaccessed, so I lost all my sources and had to go back to them one by one. Never, ever created a word file and copy and paste things you _might_ use in the paper without quoting the source right with the material (I thought it was fine because I had them bookmarked and could double check later.) I gave him the rough draft and he knew of my issue/problem even then, he asked me to cite a few things here and there, which I did. But of course, careless/stupid me, forgot a few areas (which I had copy/pasted without giving the source because I didn’t know it at the time). So yeah, I was stupid, my teacher agreed, but decided to change my D to an I/C and give me a month to write an entire new term paper. …Yay. More work. But it’ll teach me to be careless again. I guess I’m just saying all cases aren’t this cut and dry, and I’m still kind of shaken over my possible D, and possibly having to retake his class over and face him again, and being kicked out of the honors college because my gpa plummented. Sigh. I think I gained 5 pounds in the last two days. /Shadez ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/10 "2003-05-16T04:01:27Z")
I know that all cases aren’t this cut-and-dry. I have read several papers with “iffy” citation practices which seemed accidental. The students got a bad grade for their lack of attention to detail, but received a passing grade. This is obviously a different case. Oh, by the way, I found the rest of the paper on ClassicNotes. So far I have only written that her dishonesty is disheartening (and the F, of course). I’m debating whether to write more (like the “teachers can google, too” comment. She will also receive 7 demerits for cheating, as our school’s policy dictates. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/11 "2003-05-16T11:33:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ITR champion \* > \*\*I would advise against that, since it would simply give them a better idea of how to get away with cheating in the future. \*\* Not really. I doubt any student would be shocked to learn that Google exists. Besides, the only way that knowing how the teacher found them out could help the student in this case would be if they found a place from which to plagiarize that’s not searched by Google. Which is possible, but not likely. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/12 "2003-05-16T12:18:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GMRyujin \* > \*\*In fact, you should write “F. Teachers can Google too.” on it. \*\* I would write that as > [@](#): > > F. > Teachers can Google too. to avoid the interpretationin that F. is an abbreviation of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/13 "2003-05-16T12:34:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Not really. I doubt any student would be shocked to learn that Google exists. Besides, the only way that knowing how the teacher found them out could help the student in this case would be if they found a place from which to plagiarize that’s not searched by Google. Which is possible, but not likely. \*\* If they just went to SparkNotes, they don’t show the attention to serious cheating that this would require. _Everyone_ knows about SparkNotes. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/14 "2003-05-16T12:35:03Z")
(delete the period, then… heh) ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/15 "2003-05-16T12:41:10Z")
Oops, that was to **TTT** … **GMRyujin** , if the teacher mentioned Google in the note, the student has no way of knowing how the teacher found out the student was teaching, since they don’t know which site they found when Googling. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/16 "2003-05-16T12:48:45Z")
Why not create a new grade of **G** for Googled? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/17 "2003-05-16T23:19:19Z")
There have been some recent discussion of plagiarism on blogs. For example, [http://www.joannejacobs.com/archives/2003\_05\_11\_archive.htm#200291922](http://www.joannejacobs.com/archives/2003_05_11_archive.htm#200291922). Check out the comments and the links for some really stupid attempts, including a couple of instances of a student plagiarizing the professor’s own papers. ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/18 "2003-05-17T00:21:46Z")
_thank God they didn’t have Google when I was in school_ 😛 ---
**Author:** ![shep\_proudfoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@shep\_proudfoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shep_proudfoot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/19 "2003-05-17T00:47:38Z")
Term papers are such a pain in the ass, why do teachers make students do these things? Why are you playing cop? You are saying “Im going to get this kid, I will look in the internet night and day! I will keep this child from entering the 10th grade.” Teachers who give a lot of needless homework like term papers are not doing the students a service. I hope, because of the internet that term papers are a thing of the past. A 14-15 year old kid needs to be outside enjoying life, not sitting inside a sterile library sweating over a paper for Ms. Anal Retentive. SP ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596/20 "2003-05-17T00:51:08Z")
May I be the first? :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-catch-a-plagiarist/175596.md?page=2)