(hijack)
By the by, how does one pronounce Zooey, anyway (I cannot write a question mark on this frickin computer. Just pretend) To rhyme with Joey or phooey (once again, my keyboard begs your forgiveness)
Rhymes with Joey.
Whooooooooooosh!
“And, another thing! You left me this note: ‘Oscar, we’re all out of orange juice. F.U.’ – Took me a half hour to figure out it meant Felix Ungar!”
DD
I’ve had the usual batch of plagiarized papers this semester (I teach five classes spread over two campuses). If they do it once, they get an “F” on the paper. If they become repeat offenders, they fail the course and I report the incident (as I have been encouraged to do), with lots of copies as evidence, and let the higher-ups deal with it.
A student at Campus One last semester did it three times (once, then two more papers at the same time, later) and they put a hold on her records until she went to the authorities to discuss what she had done. I don’t know what became of her.
A student at Campus Two this semester plagiarized her midterm, her essay, AND forged her name on the quizzes taken by another student who had dropped the class (the plagiarizer was trying to make me think she herself was there on quiz days when I know for a fact she was absent). She has refused to take responsibility for her actions, so she’s being suspended from courses for the fall.
They are all warned repeatedly, when the class begins, and my syllabus is my insurance. Thank God I have people to back me up. So if they little darlings end up feeling like asses, it’s their own damn fault.
the little darlings.
People don’t understand colloquialisms. “We’d have words,” = “I’d be angry.” I don’t make it a point to yell at the people who control my grades. :smack:
Now that that’s cleared up…
I just think writing something snide is unprofessional. Failing them for the paper, semester, or year is enough.
See, here’s what I’d propose, but this is just me:
Give them the F. Just write that–a big red fat F. Chances are the theif will catch on as to why you flunked them. But if they lack such mental capacity and approach you, look them straight in the eye and with a cool air tell them what they did could result in expulsion should you feel the need to carry it through. Then notify them they’ve failed for the quarter/semester/year regardless.
In the grand scheme, doing something like that would be much more satisfying than writing some chilidish remark, not to mention the teacher would maintain some form of professional dignity.
So your concern is for the professor’s own satisfaction, professionalism and dignified comportment, is it? You’re not at all concerned about the “unprofessionalism”'s effect on the student’s feelings?
Sure, I’ll buy that. Any bridges you want to sell me?
The thing is, I actually agree with you. Professors should try to maintain their cool, show no emotions, etc. But plagiarism gets emotional bcause it’s predicated on a VERY human situation: Professors spend weeks informing students that stuff like honesty, respect, integrity is at stake here, students nod their heads up and down “we get it already,” and insist that they’re being honest, respectful, etc., while they’re consciously betraying themselves by handing in plagiarized work. Then they deny that they’ve done what you know perfectly well they’ve done and that you know THEY know perfectly well they’ve done–well, it’s a little disingenuous to point out how, in this context, it’s the professor who’s behaving inappropriately by venting some frustration to the person who’s lying straightout to his face.
Catfight said:
It’s pronounced Zoe. 
Actually, Rilchiam is correct. Both rhyme with Joey.
Sampiro said:
Ooooh! Things have changed in the last fourteen years! That’s enough to make me want to go back into the classroom. Well…almost.
Nineiron just give her an F. When she asks you about it, explain that she knows very well why it got an F. Add that if she wants to discuss it further, she can bring her parent to school to discuss it. That will torture her. She won’t know whether to bring the parent or not.
If she doesn’t bring the parent, she will get the grade and the point. If she does bring the parent, let her deny enough to hang herself before you show the parent that the child has wasted her or his time and lied to both of you in addition to copying the paper. (I can’t spell the p. word either.)
Oh! This feels wicked good!
I once had a student steal a book from my desk and then copy a short story out of it and submit it to me.
:smack: indeed. You don’t get to be angry when you were the one who violated school policy.
**
What do you want them to do, hug you?
**
An F is not sufficent. There needs to be punishment. At the college I attended, plagiarism got you an X for the entire semester. No credit. Goodbye scholarship. Forget grad school.
You don’t seem to get that cheating is not just doing a poor job in the class. It is fraud. Did you notice that there’s a guy in New York who is never going to work in journalism again because he committed fraud at his job?
**
Yeah, and then they would “have words” with me, right?
**
The remark you’re complaining about is not childish. You are childish.
A couple of things in way of an update:
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I didn’t exactly end up going the “ha, ha” route with my comments, as tempting as it was. I put the F with a brief note about how disheartening her dishonesty was. The “ha, ha” element is still there, just not written on the paper. Sue me; I’m happy and a little proud about catching someone doing something wrong. But I went with the simple rather than the satisfying written comments. (Unfortunately, I had forgotten that because of our school’s rotating schedule, I didn’t meet with this student’s class on Friday, and will have to wait until Monday to break the news to her.)
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This child, as said in the original post, is in 11th grade, not 9th. That’s certainly old enough to know better, especially after being caught two years ago (in 9th grade) for the same offense.
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I think people do know that “we’d have words” means “I’d be angry,” but the responder’s point, I think, is that a person in that situation has no right or reason to be angry: “Don’t hurt my feelings! show me some respect after finding out that I have stolen, cheated, and lied.”
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Tomorrow (Monday) there will be the seven demerits for cheating plus a phone call to the parents. Since I didn’t see the student on Friday, I figured I’d wait until I told her before I told her parents. So at least she got to enjoy her weekend.
Oh, and…
{{{{{{{{{Shadez}}}}}}}}}}
Sucks that you’re being punished when you were merely careless, not dishonest. But I daresay that the reason your professor is being so stern is that he’s had it up to here with cheaters. And, unfortunately, you have to pay for their sins.
Cheating doesn’t hurt anybody, right? :wally
On preview: nineiron, you go!
I think the name Zoe is the one that rhymes with Joey. I think a name spelled Zooey would rhyme with phooey.
(Now I’m trying to remember how Rex Stout spelled phooey in the Nero Wolfe books. Was it Phui ?)
I’m just repeating what I’ve heard other people say. Never heard anyone rhyme it with phooey. Not to say that those other people were infallible.
When it was published in the early 1960’s it was referred to as rhyming with Joey. It is easy to see why anyone would think otherwise with that spelling.
Just pronounce it “Zo.”
“Zo, vut ve haff here is a failure to communicate . . .”
Regarding the most professional thing to write on the paper:
I see this occasionally, and I write “No credit” (NOT ‘F.’ An ‘F’ still carries some points, and plaigiarists in my class get zeroes.) followed by "Original source: (the URL goes here). Don’t elaborate on where I found it, because students then try to think of ways to get around my sources. Don’t try to get snooty, because I like them to see the situation not as me-against-them, but as simple cause-and-effect. You cheat, you flunk. Nothing to do with me personally.
How many demerits does she need to collect before she can turn them in for a free toaster?
This is not a public school issue. This is an issue of morality, and of self-control and honesty. JUST this morning, on WNYC in New York City, a show called On The Media broadcast a segment discussing the “lifting wholesale” of an idea or story from print, and using it as the backbone of television newsmagazine coverage of the same story.
Although the transcript is not available yet, here is the WNYC link that provides a brief overview of this story, as broadcast today. The synopsis is as follows:
This is a pandemic issue. Good solid hard-won reportage is taken by another medium and used as a framework, a backbone…whatever fancy term you wish to use to avoid being sued for using certain legally inflammatory terms. ( These terms are used in the radio broadcast that can be heard in streaming audio, if one cares to visit the link I’ve provided. I just refuse to use any accusatory terms in this post ).
It is a sad state. Agreed, the profusion of Internet sources where students can gather finished papers makes this much more difficult. I went through this with my 6th grader this year. She was Googling around for information on how Mummification is done. She found wonderful sites, that gave her great cites. She then proceeded to cut and paste the first few paragraphs worth of quotes. I saw what she was doing and put a stop to it. Then the fireworks started…
It was a highly informative evening. I told her that virtually ALL research books and papers relied on the work of others. That was not theft, that was good research. The difference is that she has to write out a series of questions first, THEN find information to answer them. This way, she is telling the story her own way, using data gathered by others. ( Nobody expects a kid to go digging in Egypt. Yet. )
nineiron, I am sorry that you have kids who are doing this with such laziness. In truth, the time taken to steal 5 sections of different papers is not that much shorter than the time taken to READ 5 different Internet sources and gather useful data, using accepted methods of documentation that most if not all schools demand.
I wish I knew how to teach well. I can teach my specialty very well, but…the gift in teaching is getting kids to love PROCESS. If you hate math, but have learned to love process, then you will dig geometry. If you detest History but have learned to love process then you will research your brains out, come up with a new obscure approach to a common story- George Washington crossing the Delaware, just to pick one out of thin air. You will work the story, do the digging and come up with a cogent paper.
Pity. Attention spans are seriously reduced. As someone who has made a lot of music videos in my life, I guess I’m partially to blame for that. ( I swear, I’m just a crew member ). If kids knew how much incredible effort went INTO a 4 minute video, and had to deconstruct a video, then man…maybe their attention spans would increase and they’d see the value in doing the gut work.
Hmmmmmm…
Cartooniverse
Boy, I’ll say.
“We’d have words” does not simply mean, “I’d be angry.” It means, “We’d have a confrontation over it.” At the very least, it implies a heated argument. At the extreme, it is a euphamism for a physical conflict.