# Help me convince my friend that American hard rock didn't die in 1990 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 25, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179 "2008-09-25T17:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/1 "2008-09-25T17:36:37Z")
My friend is convinced that hard rock and metal, with few exceptions, ceased to be any good after 1990. I have tried playing him some stuff that I think would prove him wrong (e.g. - Tool’s Aenima) but he’s not yet convinced. From pre-1990, he loves Metallica, King Diamond, Anthrax, and artsier stuff like Pink Floyd and Genesis. Of post-1990 stuff, he does enjoy Dream Theater. What other artists/CDs should I recommend to him? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/2 "2008-09-25T17:39:30Z")
Genesis is considered “hard rock”? ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/3 "2008-09-25T17:39:51Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > My friend is convinced that hard rock and metal, with few exceptions, ceased to be any good after 1990. I have tried playing him some stuff that I think would prove him wrong (e.g. - Tool’s Aenima) but he’s not yet convinced. From pre-1990, he loves Metallica, King Diamond, Anthrax, and artsier stuff like Pink Floyd and Genesis. > > Of post-1990 stuff, he does enjoy Dream Theater. What other artists/CDs should I recommend to him? If he likes artsier stuff, I recommend Savatage: _Dead Winter Dead_, _The Wake of Magellan_, and _Poets and Madmen_. All three are concept albums, and all three have some really good hard-rocking stuff. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/4 "2008-09-25T17:40:44Z")
Genesis is considered artsy? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/5 "2008-09-25T17:43:23Z")
White Stripes has some songs that can be confused with hard rock. Flaming Lips matches pretty well with Genesis and Floyd. ---
**Author:** ![Time\_Stranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Time\_Stranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Time_Stranger)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/6 "2008-09-25T17:49:07Z")
Mastodon is my current favorite metal band. I think they are amazing. I like Converge too, but it’s a different kind of metal… maybe more punk-metal. I don’t know if that would be his thing. It’s always a shame when people refuse to believe any type of music is worthwhile after a certain time period. With the internet and whatnot available to find such a huge amount of new stuff, that’s just a silly mindset to take. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/7 "2008-09-25T18:00:51Z")
I’ve always wondered about people who think that “Grunge killed rock.” I’ve heard people complain that rock just isn’t the same, and I don’t get it. First, nothing stays the same in music, and second, Grunge was just fucking rock, man! I rocked out to Hair metal in the '80s, then loved GnR and Living Color in the late '80s, and Nirvana just blew me away. It’s just rock. I know it’s all about personal taste, but people who liked Guns N Roses, but couldn’t find SOME grunge to like made me go 😕 Joe ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/8 "2008-09-25T18:03:51Z")
No, Genesis (and Floyd) are NOT hard rock. I’m just trying to point out that my friend likes progressive rock along with the hard stuff, although the Dream Theater mention also indicates that. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/9 "2008-09-25T18:13:00Z")
Definitely recommend Mastodon as mentioned upthread, I’d also recommend dave Grohl’s side project Probot. He brought in a different vocalist for each track and it definitely has an ‘old school’ feel. I love the [Deftones](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-9y3U1SvMA) and would give them a try as well. If none of these suggestions work get him a Venom CD (or cassette) and leave him in the '80s 😉 ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/10 "2008-09-25T18:17:24Z")
90’s were great for rock and Alternative rock. There’s still good stuff in the 21st century too. Rammstein, White Stripes, the new Metallica of course, Marilyn Manson, Rage Against the Machine, Audioslave, Offspring, Green Day, White Zombie, and some Sublime. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/11 "2008-09-25T18:18:41Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > My friend is convinced that hard rock and metal, with few exceptions, ceased to be any good after 1990. I have tried playing him some stuff that I think would prove him wrong (e.g. - Tool’s Aenima) but he’s not yet convinced. From pre-1990, he loves Metallica, King Diamond, Anthrax, and artsier stuff like Pink Floyd and Genesis. > > Of post-1990 stuff, he does enjoy Dream Theater. What other artists/CDs should I recommend to him? _gasp_ HE DOESN’T LIKE PEARL JAM?!! ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/12 "2008-09-25T18:24:36Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > _gasp_ HE DOESN’T LIKE PEARL JAM?!! Lots of people don’t like Pearl Jam. Like me. But “Ten” was decent. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/13 "2008-09-25T18:31:23Z")
For an artsy Genesis song that will also rock your socks off before it’s over, check out “The Musical Box” from their “Nursery Cryme” album. (circa 1972.) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/14 "2008-09-25T18:54:39Z")
[3](http://www.myspace.com/3). ---
**Author:** ![Merhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Merhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/15 "2008-09-25T19:05:12Z")
The music died. All that’s left are the Cafe’s.\* Now get offa my lawn, damnit. - I’m pretty sure that apostrophe isn’t correct, but I really don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/16 "2008-09-25T19:15:56Z")
You specifically mention American in the title, but don’t say anything about it in the OP and even mention **Pink Floyd** who isn’t American. But, for what it’s worth, there’s TONS of stuff that’s great and new. In the vein of Pink Floyd, I’d recommend **Porcupine Tree**. Much of their earlier stuff is highly influenced by **Pink Floyd**. Their last 3-4 albums though have been distinctly more modern rock and metal influenced, but still very artsy and psychadelic. For their more psychadelic stuff, check out an album like Up the Downstair, Lightbulb Sun, or The Sky Moves Sideways. For their more modern rock sound, check out Recordings, In Absentia, or Fear of a Blank Planet. In the vein of **Dream Theater** , they’re simply the best of the modern Progressive Metal bands. If he likes them, I would recommend a number of bands. **Spock’s Beard** is from the same area, but they’re a little more rock oriented and just have some bizarre melodies and jams… some of it’s a little too goofy to be taken seriously, but it’s generally pretty solid and a band that a **Dream Theater** fan should like. I’d highly recommend Octane and Snow. In general, most **Dream Theater** fans will probably like some or all of these bands as well: **Symphony X** (The Odyssey, Divine Wings of Tragedy), **Ayreon** (Human Equation, Universal Migrator, Into the Electric Castle), and **Pain of Salvation** (The Perfect Element, One Hour by the Concrete Lake, Remedy Lane). Depending on which of those he’d like, I can make more specific recommendations. To anyone who is a fan of **Metallica** , it’s really hard to say because metal has become SO incredibly diverse these days that I really don’t know where to go. Would he like more of the modern thrash sound? Would he like Power Metal or Death metal? Either way, I can 100% guarantee that any fan of old school **Metallica** will like **Iced Earth**. He should check out The Dark Saga (a concept album about the comic book character Spawn), Burnt Offerings, or Something Wicked This Way Comes. I could make a ton more recommendations, but it really depends on what he’d like. If you just want a list of some kick-ass bands, check out my post in the metal fans thread. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/17 "2008-09-25T19:18:32Z")
Speaking of non-American, Muse rocks! ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/18 "2008-09-25T19:24:15Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > 90’s were great for rock and Alternative rock. There’s still good stuff in the 21st century too. > > Rammstein, White Stripes, the new Metallica of course, Marilyn Manson, Rage Against the Machine, Audioslave, Offspring, Green Day, White Zombie, and some Sublime. I would say that Marilyn Manson, Rage Against The Machine, Green Day, and Sublime are great examples of artists he hates. He’d probably like Rammstein; I think he does like White Zombie, and the jury’s still out on the new Metallica (he hated “Cyanide”, but that’s probably the weakest track on the CD). ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/19 "2008-09-25T19:26:57Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > For an artsy Genesis song that will also rock your socks off before it’s over, check out “The Musical Box” from their “Nursery Cryme” album. (circa 1972.) That’s OK, but I prefer “The Knife” when I think about relatively heavy Genesis. He knows all that stuff, too. I’m just mentioning it as a reference point. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179/20 "2008-09-25T19:35:02Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > I would say that Marilyn Manson, Rage Against The Machine, Green Day, and Sublime are great examples of artists he hates. He’d probably like Rammstein; I think he does like White Zombie, and the jury’s still out on the new Metallica (he hated “Cyanide”, but that’s probably the weakest track on the CD). Hmm, tough crowd. Well if he likes Floyd I’d still recommend Muse, and if he likes 80’s Anthrax he may also like Avenged Sevenfold. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/help-me-convince-my-friend-that-american-hard-rock-didnt-die-in-1990/465179.md?page=2)